View Poll Results: Should the Brisbane South Branch of TFPQ be closed forever?

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  • YES

    13 25.00%
  • NO

    24 46.15%
  • Dont know/ Dont Care!

    15 28.85%
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Thread: Should the Brisbane South Branch of TFPQ be closed?

  1. #1

    Should the Brisbane South Branch of TFPQ be closed?

    Given the controversy regarding the position of the Chair of the local branch (Brisbane South) and after some very careful consideration, I am thinking of closing the branch and declaring all positions vacant (well they wouldnt be vacant - they would be closed - uncontestable until the Party AGM).

    In order to explain why this may be necessary I should provide you with some background and also some further insight regarding the Party’s constitution. I apologise if I am airing dirty laundry here, but given the circumstances I cant see any other options. Additionally I apologise for the length of this explanation.

    When Shane resigned back before Christmas a special meeting was called by the executive in order to resolve the vacancy. I was called and asked to nominate, at first I said no then a very well known identity within the industry called me; one who I have known and respected most of my adult life and he asked me to consider the local Chair so in respect for this individual I agreed. I did not seek the position nor did I want it, I tried to do a ring-around to find another viable candidate. I agreed to take the position on the proviso that as soon as a viable candidate was found I would step aside.

    At this stage it was assumed by the executive that Shane had no further interest in the party and would not even bother to attend the meeting. Imagine my/our surprise when Shane turned up, I was confused to say the least. Without divulging all the details of the meeting, it will suffice me to say that to me it seemed that Shane didn’t really want to let go of the Chair and I supposed in my mind that due to the numbers of members he bought with him that he would renominate and claim the position. Again imagine my surprise when the vote came up that he didn’t want to nominate (if he did – he had more than enough numbers there to claim the seat) and so I reluctantly stepped forward as I said I would and reiterated to the whole group that I would stand aside as soon as a viable (and willing) candidate became available. I was nominated and seconded uncontested.

    After the chair nomination came the vacancy of the vice chair, which was left by the resignation of Mitch. No one would nominate for this position – or for the position of secretary – so with the resignation of other committee members, I was left holding the bag so to speak. So with those vacancies being unable to be filled on the night, my first act of the chair was to hold over any further nominations until the next meeting, which is yet to be called, I also informed the group that was gathered that if we were not able to fill the vacancies that I would then close the branch.

    So that brings us to this point where I am the Chair of the local Branch - now on with some constitutional matters.

    The constitution states that the purpose of the branches is to support the goals of TFPQ (which are available as the mission statement on the website). So as far as the local branches are concerned they are subject to the main organisation – they do not have goals independent of the main party.

    Spokes person: section 8.1 of the party constitution states: “The (party) Chairman is the only person authorised spokesperson for the TFPQ including its sub-branches and any committees”.

    So there it is in black and white (although the grammar isn’t very good) there is only 1 spokesperson for TFPQ and at present that’s Kevin Collins; Party Chairman. Further in section 14.1 it states: “Any member who disagrees with a policy or decision of the party shall remain wholly free to express and advocate their own views, except on occasions when they are communicating in a public capacity (such as Ausfish?) as a representative of the Party, in which event they may express their own views, but make it clear that they do not reflect those of the general membership of the Party”.

    I have tried at all times to make it extremely clear, I have totally gone out of my way to make it clear to all and sundry that I do not make representations on behalf of the Party – EVER!!! However some people wont let this lie, they insist that all my representations reflect the party – which I insist they don’t as outlined within the constitution which I try at my utmost to abide by.

    Lets analyse this for a moment: How many branches does the liberal party have in QLD?? How many branches does the Labor party have in QLD? I bet that no one here can give me a definitive and accurate answer (I know only the answer for one of them) let me tell you – it’s more than 1.

    AND YET… who here knows who the local chairman of their local branch (who usually only meet with about 6-8 members) is? Have you ever heard of one of them representing their party or being a spokesperson for the party? NO!! Why? Because they too have a single spokesperson policy all branches and sub branches are subordinate to the State Branch – who then appoints the spokesperson – they only ever have 1 spokesperson at a time – well two actually 1 for the parliamentary party and another for to speak for the state executive.

    The spokesperson for the State executive NEVER speaks for the parliamentary party and vice versa – they are almost two separate identities. When a Parliamentary member attends a local branch meeting – he/she is there as a member only, not the incumbent representative – he has no standing at that meeting.

    Local branch Chairs are there as an internal position, they represent their members to the State executive and supply candidates, help suggest policy formation and generally help the party achieve the goals of the organisation. Local chairs in both Labor and Liberal are internal positions – same as TFPQ – they NEVER EVER speak for the party and NONE of their comments can be or are misconstrued as representing the party.

    You wouldn’t expect from any other party what you have expected from my position. If you are not a member of my branch – then to you I am insignificant – NOTHING I say can possibly represent the Party – only the nominated chair of the State executive can do that. TFPQ has been modelled after the major parties and so we should justifiably expected to be treated like the major parties– we have a system in place and no one can go outside that system unless they want to leave the party. However IF you are a local Branch member I can help you and assist you and represent your interests to the STATE executive. I cant represent your interests outside that circle, it’s in the constitution, its registered with the ECQ –as far as I understand it – its LAW!

    So back to closing the branch… With the controversy surrounding this issue I can (as section 11.1 dictates) no longer be “effective or capable of supporting the goals of TFPQ”. The constitution declares that if the branch can no longer do this, then that branch can be wound up.

    So I find the branch at a cross roads – either people here let me try and achieve those goals and let me abide by the constitution (as you would any other branch of any other political party) – or I close the branch. This poll is an opportunity for you to have your say. The outcome of the poll will not determine my course of action, which will be decided between the State executive and myself.

    If we decide to wind up the branch, then a meeting will be called and according to the constitution, the branch can either be wound up without further recourse or we can hold a vote and if there is 80% vote of attending members in favour of winding up the branch – then Brisbane south will be no more. (that decision will be made by the executive).


    Make no mistake; this is not a power play or a threat as I never wanted the position in the first place. If the branch is wound up, it will not affect the work I do behind the scenes for the party but will leave me free to help and be more effective due to the fact that the people on this board who have made this position most difficult will be left with nothing to say. It will however have a significant impact on the election hopes of the Party and helping to identify local issues and find local candidates who may be worthy to represent the party at the ballot box. I am very sorry that a few bad apples may spoil the batch for every one.

    So have your say… give me a spray – it may be your last opportunity.

    Adam

    Adam


  2. #2

    Re: Should the Brisbane South Branch of TFPQ be closed?

    Personally..I would not have bothered typing all that..I would have just resigned. Too much to do in life to bother being a target for others in such petty ways.
    Maybe Shane wants the position back.

  3. #3

    Re: Should the Brisbane South Branch of TFPQ be closed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adamy View Post
    At this stage it was assumed by the executive that Shane had no further interest in the party and would not even bother to attend the meeting. Imagine my/our surprise when Shane turned up, I was confused to say the least.
    Adam
    Adam

    I received a written invitation via email inviting me to attend the meeting by the Party Secretary.

    Shane
    Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent genius will not; un-rewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone is omnipotent."

  4. #4

    Re: Should the Brisbane South Branch of TFPQ be closed?

    Quote Originally Posted by PinHead View Post
    Personally..I would not have bothered typing all that..I would have just resigned. Too much to do in life to bother being a target for others in such petty ways.
    Maybe Shane wants the position back.
    Pinhead

    Things are hotting up here in relation to Moreton Bay, and as I have indicated in repeated posts, I believe that I can be more effective outside the Party system than from within it. I live here in Brisbane, KC and the TFPQ executive are in NQ.

    KC once referred to me as a "bombastic bastard" and in the case of Moreton Bay and Rec fishing issues, he is probably right. If being antagonist and catalyst is what is required to raise the profile of local issues and get people fired up and motivated, then so be it. I have no interest in stepping back into the confines of being the TFPQ Branch Chairman, only to find myself again.

    Regards, Shane
    Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent genius will not; un-rewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone is omnipotent."

  5. #5

    Re: Should the Brisbane South Branch of TFPQ be closed?

    Interesting reply Shane...at least the perception of what you were doing previously is no longer valid.

  6. #6

    Re: Should the Brisbane South Branch of TFPQ be closed?

    personally, i don't care what you do.

    You have become all defensive over comments made.

    my slant on it all is, things being pointed out to you were..regardless of party policy, that it does not matter that you have a disclaimer. Some of these greens will use all or part of what you say if it suits their agenda.

    if they were to say "the Chairman of TFPQ Bisbane South Branch said it was hilarious when he read a story about a dugong being killed by a boatstrike"

    Now, that is in writing, it was said, i have neglected to relate the whole of what was said, & i have used it out of context, which is the sort of crap these people do.

    it's a bit like the old one of...Hypothetically.. if someone was to ask ('insert high profile name here) in an interview if he was gay(not that there is anything wrong with that), & he said 'No, i am not gay"
    the next day the news headlines could be ('insert high profile name here) DENIES HE IS GAY!!'

    once again, the truth, he denied it. But, how many people are going to start to wonder why he was asked the question in the first place, & how many are just going to think he is gay just because he denied it???

    it's all about twisting to suit the cause.. i think this started out with people trying to let you know it could be misinterpreted & then it all got out of hand..

    don't take it to heart, just get on with the job. as you said closing will be a backward step for TFPQ in bris. sth.
    You don't need members here filling out a poll, you know what you want to do...

    this is not criticism, just a point of view

    my 2 cents

    another thought.... keep the job & sign up here under another name & you can be like the rest of us & talk all the crap you like
    Last edited by DR; 26-02-2007 at 08:51 PM.

  7. #7

    Re: Should the Brisbane South Branch of TFPQ be closed?

    Pinhead, pull your head in.

    Who the blazes are you to go demanding someone resign from a position in a political party of which by your own admission, you are glad you are not a member of ?? (as per your post on the previous thread)

    These guys are passionate about what they are trying to achieve, and will have differences of opinion.

    I can fully understand Shane's previous (and current) frustration of not being able to publicly expand his opinions & ideas and not being able to satisfy the official TFPQ guidelines of the single spokesman policy.

    I can also see why that policy is in place. It's a conundrum that needs addressing, but at the same time it cannot be completely opened up for all and sundry to be 'spokeperson'.

    I can also see how Adam has been put in the position he is now in, though a little more maturity could have been displayed in some of his previous posts.

    Pinhead, it's a friggin time consuming and very often thankless hard slog being involved in the political process. Healthy & firey discussion can be a learning & productive excercise for all. Standing back throwing rocks like you're doing isn't

    If your prepared to criticise the those involved and you feel so passionate about demanding resignations then maybe it's a good time to put your own hand up ??

    And yes, I've been involved in a political party in the past so can speak from experience of what these guys are about, and yes, I'm now a member (since inception) of TFPQ, though by my own choice, not 'active'.
    Last edited by Dicko; 26-02-2007 at 09:13 PM.

  8. #8

    Re: Should the Brisbane South Branch of TFPQ be closed?

    Dr Yes you're absolutely right - anyone can take any comment you make and take it out of context:

    Quote Originally Posted by DR View Post
    i am gay!!'

    my 2 cents




    DR - thats just my point!! The Greens and the press and whoever the hell else doesnt care about my position - its insignificant and doesnt have a bearing on anything - now if KC said it - then it might be news. Its only the people on this forum who are making a big deal and YES I am defensive - and why shouldnt I be?

    But I do get what you are saying... but from my present point of view I'm leaning towards closing - Greg is right its not worth all the trouble!! I'm being defensive and some others are being "petty". Better to close it up - then I can say whatever the hell I like... I will anyway because thats the right the constitution of the party and of the Country allows.

    Shane: The invite was issued to all branch members - some of them confirmed or sent their apologies. You didnt notify anyone of your intended arrival - last communication from you was a resignation letter - why should anyone have expected your presence? Still cant understand given all the hullaballoo at the meeting why you didnt renominate.

    I believe that I can be more effective outside the Party system than from within it.
    Does that mean that you dont want to be a member anymore?? Just stirring!! taking things out of context - just like everyone else

    Adam


  9. #9

    Re: Should the Brisbane South Branch of TFPQ be closed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adamy View Post
    Dr Yes you're absolutely right - anyone can take any comment you make and take it out of context:







    DR - thats just my point!! The Greens and the press and whoever the hell else doesnt care about my position - its insignificant and doesnt have a bearing on anything - now if KC said it - then it might be news. Its only the people on this forum who are making a big deal and YES I am defensive - and why shouldnt I be?

    Adam
    no, i think that is wrong,thats not out of context, that is probably slander as i never said that i was gay

    most of Qld/Aust probably do not know that TFPQ is a one spokesman party. so my point is, by using your comments & mentioning your position with the party it may have some impact with all those that don't really pay attention to what goes on around them..

  10. #10

    Re: Should the Brisbane South Branch of TFPQ be closed?

    Hey Dicko... Its OK mate Pinhead is OK by me! I understand where he is coming from. I know he can speak for himself - but from my perspective he's just saying its not worth the hassle I am getting from some of the others.

    AND yes I probably do need a higher level of maturity - I can take the spray when I know I've done the wrong thing. In the first instance my words were fine and the fault lie in others misconstruing my words, thereafter, I acted all defensively and that was my problem and something I'm going to try and learn from in the future. I have to learn to let stuff go - but I dont know if I can do it whilst under constant attack by those who should be supportive.

    So thats why I'm still leaning towards branch closure - unless there are people who I can actually serve - who arent looking to constantly stab me in the back. Thats why Pinhead is right! I can still achieve a lot for the party without having to be the branch chair.


    I dont want to start a turf war here - just looking for some honest feedback - good bad or otherwise - thanks all for comments so far!

    Adam
    Adam


  11. #11

    Re: Should the Brisbane South Branch of TFPQ be closed?

    This thread is moving too fast for me... sorry for double entries

    Hi DR,
    most of Qld/Aust probably do not know that TFPQ is a one spokesman party. so my point is, by using your comments & mentioning your position with the party it may have some impact with all those that don't really pay attention to what goes on around them..
    You're right of course - problem is I have never signed any of my posts with chairman - or even mentioned that I was doing or saying a certain thing on behalf of the party - as if I was a spokesperson.

    My battle is trying to get some of the people on this site to NOT regard me as the Chair and to treat me like a normal person - I'm just like everyone else - I'm nothing and nobody I claim nothing for myself, no authority, no rights no nothing!

    Thats been the problem the whole time people wont just let me be me without assuming that I'm representing something that I'm not. I reckon even after I resign - people will still say - you cant say that - because you're a "former" chair. They'll use the same dull arguments they are using now.

    Adam

    p.s. you got me with the slander thing I'll have to try again
    Last edited by Adamy; 26-02-2007 at 10:50 PM.


  12. #12

    Re: Should the Brisbane South Branch of TFPQ be closed?

    ..... who is gay......... (Not that there is anything wrong with that). It's just good to know prior to m&g's.

  13. #13

    Re: Should the Brisbane South Branch of TFPQ be closed?

    Iam gay! Does anyone want to go out for a date. Come on guys, Please! Iam Quite nice you know.


    Blokes! Give it a rest.





    signed tunaman

  14. #14

    Re: Should the Brisbane South Branch of TFPQ be closed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dicko View Post
    Pinhead, pull your head in.

    Who the blazes are you to go demanding a perfect example of how things are taken outr of context..nowhere did i say I demand someone resign...I said.."Personally..I would not have bothered typing all that..I would have just resigned"..hardly a demand...just saying what I would do if in that position. someone resign from a position in a political party of which by your own admission, you are glad you are not a member of ?? (as per your post on the previous thread)

    These guys are passionate about what they are trying to achieve, and will have differences of opinion.

    I can fully understand Shane's previous (and current) frustration of not being able to publicly expand his opinions & ideas and not being able to satisfy the official TFPQ guidelines of the single spokesman policy.

    I can also see why that policy is in place. It's a conundrum that needs addressing, but at the same time it cannot be completely opened up for all and sundry to be 'spokeperson'.

    I can also see how Adam has been put in the position he is now in, though a little more maturity could have been displayed in some of his previous posts.

    Pinhead, it's a friggin time consuming and very often thankless hard slog being involved in the political process. Healthy & firey discussion can be a learning & productive excercise for all. Standing back throwing rocks like you're doing isn't
    And comments from outside are not included when it is all made public such as on here? No one criticises the Labor or Liberal or National Parties or the Greens unless they are a member..I doubt that.

    If your prepared to criticise the those involved and you feel so passionate about demanding resignations then maybe it's a good time to put your own hand up ??

    And yes, I've been involved in a political party in the past so can speak from experience of what these guys are about, and yes, I'm now a member (since inception) of TFPQ, though by my own choice, not 'active'.
    not much difference between being a non active member and not being a member...main reason I did not join originally...no time to be an active member so no point in joining.

  15. #15

    Re: Should the Brisbane South Branch of TFPQ be closed?

    why make a poll on this Adamy? Are you saying you can't make a decision on this yourself and want a consensus of other people, many of whom you don't know, to decide for you? And to make the closing of the branch as public issue?

    Is that the sort of leader you are?

    Has the SB branch done anything under your leadership? Have you made any progress?

    Nothing personal there, just a few hard questions to make you think.

    Jeremy
    "The underlying spirit of angling is that the skill of the angler is pitted against the instinct and strength of the fish and the latter is entitled to an even chance for it's life."
    (Quotation from the rules of the Tuna Club Avalon, Santa Catalina, U.S.A.)

    Apathy is the enemy

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