Custom solar panels

[ranmar850]

I know I contributed to a thread on this last year, but just cannot find it. Someone was looking to get the max amount of solar on a boat roof mounted around fittings, and I provided a link to a company in Perth called Vehicle Solar Solutions ( VSS), who sell kits for specific vehicle bonnets, as a well as ready made and custom marine. My almost 6 YO boat roof panel died this year. It was an Allspark, output dropped to 10.4Voc, which indicated either a diode or internal panel fault. Diodes tested OK, so the panel, which still looks perfect, is gone.
Of course, I did not realise the panel was shot until we got to our destination for the month, which meant I just couldn't leave the fridge running and the anchor light on , on the mooring, for 3 or 4 days if the weather was crap. Annoying. had forgotten how much I relied on it.
So I get home, and get around to chasing up options. I have contacted VSS re a custom panel, provided a size, and should have a design , and a price, soon. I kept the shape simple--there is more to be had, but the shape would be more complex. I should be able to get , perhaps, 200w out of the area, which is just under 1.3sq m.




And the the output projected is disappointing, or the price is eye-watering, I'll just go for their 150 w panel , which will nicely fit lengthwise.
I'll keep you posted.

EDIT--Found the original thread, it was Corry who found these blokes https://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/sh...r-roof-of-Boat m? Did you follow that up, Corry? Do business with them?

[chris69]

Have you thought about customizing a solar blanket.

[ranmar850]

No. I had something similar to a solar blanket mounted originally, didn't last the first trip, which involved 350k there, including dirt and corrugations. I suspect the fact that i didn't have it firmly and permanently attached to the hardtop meant it may have got a flutter up in the highway wind, and fractured something internally. I'd prefer to mount a permanent solution, without the weight and sharp edges of a glass panel. And I don't want to be putting something/putting it down. Stick a semi-flexible down with UHB tape , do the corners with sikaflex, done for 5 years or more.
I've gone from zero solar blanket ownership earlier this year to now owning two. the first one was planned, a 200w iTechWorld foldout, sized to sit across the van toolbox facing the morning sun, to get some charge first thing . Typically 10.9a battery charge. But the 435w Sunman panel I'd mounted on the rear fold-out wasn't playing the game, so I ended up with a 300w Wildtrak, all I could get in the vicinity at the time. It worked fine, albeit with the usual flippy flappy panel annoyances. Delivered 14.5 amps charge.
I'll start a separate thread on the 435w Sunman panel if anyone wants--I noticed , in my recent thread searches, that they had come up on here as a boat alternative.

[chris69]

Have you thought about removeing those top vents then you could fit another 2 panels like what you have there now and fill that space up on your roof.

[ranmar850]

Those Bomar hatches certainly limit your options in that regard, but are an absolute must-have on a hardtop for ventilation in hot weather. They are standard on the Caribbean 2300, I had to have them fitted on the Reefrunner. So they certainly are staying. I should have a price on the proposed custom panel by end of next week. I've been mostly getting by with the existing panel, which I believe is 100w, maybe 120 w at most. If I can get 200w out of the custom, it will be plenty, only feeding a 100ah LFP House battery. Or, if the proposal is not satisfactory in any way, I'll go with their 150w, which just slots straight in.
I've spoken with him direct, and having the ability to extend that area a bit lengthwise and sideways can make quite a difference, as it might mean an extra row of cells, at the cost of more complexity of shape. I'm visiting their showroom next week when I'm down in Perth, should be interesting.

[Corry]

Nah, I contacted them, but didn't get to the point of sending them a photo of the roof, and sketching out sizing, always meant to do it, was going to use the drone, but I've procrastinated as I haven't really come across a need to put power in yet.
I'm running a 36v Lithium, which means extra stuff to mount to be able to charge, and the battery is lasting so long without charging I've just been charging it at home. I had to run it flat the other day to do a reset on the BMS, I put the electric motor in a wheely bin full of water, had it running on speed 7 for 5 days (daytime only was I was in the shed with it) to get the battery flat.

[ranmar850]

I had an email back from him after my last post, and he recommended the use of their stock 150w panel vs a custom panel, on the grounds that I would likely only get maybe 175w out of the basic shape I had submitted. And the manufacture of a custom panel is actually done overseas, which obviously means some delay. So I dropped in, and bought a stock 150w panel from them. Quite good to deal with.
I'll get it mounted in a few days, and running when the Victron 75/15 arrives.

[disorderly]

Its a bit late now but those hatchs sure do mess with that space.

You could have gone close to fitting a 300-400 watt panel on there ...

Did you consider customising your windscreen instead with sliding or push out panels rather then hatchs in the top...?..

A fella I know has just bought himself a Stabi ...its his first boat and he has no idea how he is going to roast in the glassed in cab over the FNQ summer....

[ranmar850]

Not a believer in those push-out front windows, they always end up leaking in harsh conditions. Hate forward-facing clears--if there is enough chop to need them closed, you are almost flying blind. Only advantage with them is at night, if the conditions allow you to have them open. Utterly blind if you have to have them up. I like windscreen wipers, especially now I have fitted a washer setup. Sliding side-openers would be great, vs the roll-up clears I have there, but would add a lot of weight, and let no more breeze through. I was at home with overhead hatches--that's all we had on the big boats before I finally got one with a flybridge, and would drive it standing on the seat steering with my foot when the need arose. Which was every single morning leaving the river in the dark.
When I came to fit the new panel, I was confronted with something I should have taken into account--the hardtop is cambered off each side, but also slopes forward from just aft of those hatches.You effectively end up with compound curves, it's almost like a dome where all those points intersect. So I couldnt mount the panel lengthways without ending up with a big bulge along each edge. So it ended up fitted crossways, and with a slight curve down towards the front, along the line that runs behind those hatches. Due to all those considerations, couldn't even use the VHB tape, had to go with sikaflex. I'll post a photo tomorrow.

Your mate with the Stabi will certainly need some ventilation. What size is it? The bigger hardtops have a lot of headroom, he'll need hatches or at least one opening front. I think those things are built for Victoria/Tasmania

[ranmar850]

Finished job. I wish I had used white sikaflex for the edge finish, would have been so much easier to get a perfect looking finish. Anyway, it's on the roof, only person that see it is me, when I wash it. When i took it out into the sun to check on charge, i was reminded, yet again, how much you lose on a flat panel vs having it inclined at the sun. I know, from practical experiment,this time of year at our latitude, that you drop at least 30% when flat. Very easy to prove. So I was only getting 7 amps. Inclined, would be 9 amps.
So, job done, and I have yet another Victron bluetooth device, that makes 8, counting the two battery chargers.

[Lovey80]

Ranmar, interested to know what size batteries you are charging with the solar panel and what size fridge you are running off them?

[ranmar850]

Only have a 100ah LFP as a House battery, a slimline from Amptron. The fridge is a home-made job, when I couldn't find a suitable one ready made, there is a thread on it here https://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/sh...t-fridge-built It uses a BD50 Danfoss compressor, oversize for that application, ( around 50 l) but it was on special and $200 less than the BD35 at the time. I have to run it on the warmest setting ( old style capillary thermostat) to stop it freezing everything. So it pulls more when it runs, but doesn't run very long at all. So it evens out, probably uses about the same as a 60l Engel. at a guess?
So, in actual practice, I could leave the fridge and my anchor light on indefinetly, if I left the boat on the mooring for days at a time when the weather isn't co-operating, with the old 120w Allspark panel I just replaced. it would typically drop to maybe 85% overnight, and be back to 100% well before lunch, without running the motor. If you were camped on board, and running all the lights after dark for a while, of course, you might go down to about 70%, but would be gaining on that before you started the motor in the morning. the motor charging is taken care of by a Victron12/30 DC-DC. We don't fish overnight. Once we have showered, we are content to watch to aquarium in the lights, although I have weakened and scored the odd squid for bait the next day.

[disorderly]

Just a couple of points on fitting these semi flexible panels..

Panels lose efficiency the hotter they get...best to use a frame or vented gap system to mount above a surface so there can be air movement underneath ..if thats not possible then make sure not to seal around all 4 sides with sika as it will also trap hot air underneath ..

As you have also pointed out due to the curve of the hardtop and the panel is on a rocking boat always go bigger then you think you need due to these inherent inefficiencies..this also helps when, as we almost all do, extra or bigger stuff is often added to the boat over time increasing power requirements..

Just a personal one... I am a horribly messy Sika applicator so will use a different method if its at all possible..

Before sticking the panel down I used a straight edge to work out the curves of the hardtop and then used more layers of the double sided tape on the ends and edges to slightly lessen the curve of the panel in both directions....it was a regular time consuming PITA but I believe it increases power output and probably longevity of the panel..

Thats my 2 cents anyway..and that double sided tape sure sticks well despite some initial reservations.

vented gap111.jpgvented gap.jpgvented gap11.jpg

A few ideas here found helpful

https://www.solar4rvs.com.au/buying/...ruction-guide/

Ranmar..old mates boat is a 2100 stabi and minn Kota is fitted and now he is sold on the roof hatchs already so thats the next thing to fit....

I see more and more enclosed glass cabs up here and just wonder why they buy these...in places with bigger and colder seas or in busy waterways sure I get it..but in GBR waters 95% of the time you dont need it as most of the day is spent just zipping around between reefs and that breeze is just so precious..sometimes when the chop comes up on the trip home I'll stick the clears on and they are adequate for keeping dry..

This is his first boat and he was telling me the other day he cant beleive how expensive all this boat stuff is....

He also lost a pin out of his tilt trim assembly on a 200 yammie and now has to wait till one can be sourced from Japan so he is not a happy camper ATM..and he also never realised just how the winter tradewinds up here affects boating so much.....

Ah the joys of boat ownership..

[Volvo]

Looking at installing permanaent solar on top of Teetop , wiring to suit so can feed electric motor from panel as well as from motor when main batteries are full.
Advice appreciated ,ie wiring etc..

[ranmar850]

Re: Custom solar panels

Just a couple of points on fitting these semi flexible panels..

Panels lose efficiency the hotter they get...best to use a frame or vented gap system to mount above a surface so there can be air movement underneath ..if thats not possible then make sure not to seal around all 4 sides with sika as it will also trap hot air underneath .
Yes, I know, and my original plan was to mount it on VHB to allow an air gap underneath. I actually did get it mounted on the tape, overestimated my ability to get it mounted in an acceptable manner with the curves, even using double thickess around the low points, absolute fail. So then spent a day getting it off without damaging it and then having to clean up the resulting mess.
They (VSS, not solar4RVs) actually recommend completely sealing it around the edges, even using the VHB. I dissented with them on this for the reasons you give around cooling. I think their reasoning is that they do more vehicles than boats, and don't want the risk of wind getting under the edges at high speeds and peeling it off. They sell a lot of bonnet mounted stuff, have kits for popular vehicles. Across the front of mine, due to the sharp angle down, just behind the roof hatches, the gap was probably 15mm , which was not obvious in the picture I posted. So I decided to seal it for trailering reasons. And that was with some weight on it as it cured, or it would have been more like 20mm. On the old one, using VHB, the gap was only 3mm, and it was set back behind that curve so it probably wasn't even getting much high speed air. But the VHB had come away along the outside edge of the tape on each side after 5 plus years, only half of the width of it still stuck down.

As you have also pointed out due to the curve of the hardtop and the panel is on a rocking boat always go bigger then you think you need due to these inherent inefficiencies..this also helps when, as we almost all do, extra or bigger stuff is often added to the boat over time increasing power requirements..
The 120w panel really was good enough for 99% of our work, I'm happy with 150W. The only extra we have added is that we sometimes take the 45l Engel along now as a freezer, and the 100ah LFP manages that fine overnight. I find the big variable is the anchor winch--it is power down and up, so if you are doing a lot of moving around short distances and not much engine running, late afternoon, you can get caught out. Only happened once, now I can take it into account.

Just a personal one... I am a horribly messy Sika applicator so will use a different method if its at all possible..

I'm hearing you I sent the picture to Shane at VSS, and he said it looked fine. Nice of him to say so. I really should have used white sika in that application, don't know what I was thinking. I laid down masking tape, and ran it off on that, waited overnight, then a light score with a brand new stanley knife blade along a straightedge saw it come of with a fairly clean edge. Pro tip from my son the tiler--apply your sika/silicon/whatever, then spray everything with soapy water before you try to run it off with a popstick/finger. I did that on the last edge I did, much easier to keep it tidy.

Before sticking the panel down I used a straight edge to work out the curves of the hardtop and then used more layers of the double sided tape on the ends and edges to slightly lessen the curve of the panel in both directions....it was a regular time consuming PITA but I believe it increases power output and probably longevity of the panel..

As I said above, there was just too much curving involved. I ran 4 crosswide sika beads, thickening as i ran out towards the edges. I was then able to get it looking relatively smooth by weighting it down with a half dozen 5 litre buckets of water, moving them around until it looked even. In retrospect, I could have gotten away, probably, with just fully sealing that front edge against trailering wind, and leaving the rest open. But my mind kept going back to that tape starting to unbond, and the fact that they had a panel mounted directly, and fully sealed, on the bonnet of their black F-150, still going strong after five years. You could probably cook an egg on it.

Thats my 2 cents anyway..and that double sided tape sure sticks well despite some initial reservations.



A few ideas here found helpful

https://www.solar4rvs.com.au/buying/...ruction-guide/

I actually used those very same instructions from those people back when i fitted the original panel, bought the VHB tape from them 6 years ago. They were not talking about the spacers then. I know they are now, because the 435W Sunman panel I installed on the back of the Tanami last year came from them, and I used their stand-off plastic spacers and VHB.

Ranmar..old mates boat is a 2100 stabi and minn Kota is fitted and now he is sold on the roof hatchs already so thats the next thing to fit....

I see more and more enclosed glass cabs up here and just wonder why they buy these...in places with bigger and colder seas or in busy waterways sure I get it..but in GBR waters 95% of the time you dont need it as most of the day is spent just zipping around between reefs and that breeze is just so precious..sometimes when the chop comes up on the trip home I'll stick the clears on and they are adequate for keeping dry..

I was absolutely stuck on centre consoles for a long time, but winter fishing, or really the travel to where you are fishing gets very chilly on those clear easterly mornings. Brilliant fishing machines when the weather is perfect. But we can get a lot of wind here, at any time of the year.

This is his first boat and he was telling me the other day he cant beleive how expensive all this boat stuff is....
B.ring O.ut A.nother T.housand

He also lost a pin out of his tilt trim assembly on a 200 yammie and now has to wait till one can be sourced from Japan so he is not a happy camper ATM..and he also never realised just how the winter tradewinds up here affects boating so much.....

Ah the joys of boat ownership..

Amen