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Thread: Garmin Gear and Lithium 24v Questions

  1. #1
    Ausfish Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Seaforth QLD & Cairns

    Garmin Gear and Lithium 24v Questions

    So the new tinny is almost ready for us to take delivery.
    I'm going down the path of setting up the electronics and that myself, well will do most of it and have some done by the same mob that did a lot of work on our other boat.

    I'm going to run all Garmin gear on it, and hopefully be able to get my hands on a Kraken electric motor to match up to it all. Got a few things that I'm not sure of that I thought I would throw out there.

    I'm looking at running twin Echomap Ultra 2's, thinking 10" as I think 12" will be too big in a 4.2m tinny, everything I've researched reckons they'll be fine for connecting to the Kraken electric motor, the only thing they don't connect to is radar, and I'm not doing that on this boat. It will also have Livescope, and I'm wondering can it all be tethered together so that it is all available on either screen? One will be mounted at the front the other on the side in front of the drivers seat. The reason for this is if I'm just out prawning, I will remove the front screen and use the rear screen, as when I'm chasing Barra, I'll use the front screen for it all.

    The other questions I've got is with the lithium batteries for the electric. The Kraken's are 24v, I'm not sure if I should go for two 12v batteries or one 24v. Obviously going for two 12v's I could balance out weight, and it'd be easier to run other things off them, but with one 24v it would be easier to charge, although would be a different charger, mounting would be easier as I'm only mounting one battery, and I'd need to run a step down transformer to 12v to run anything else off it. Anyone got any thoughts?
    Also, with the starting battery, is anyone running a lithium for that, again it'd be 12v (which would make having one charger if running twin up front)? Can they be charged the same from the outboard as a wet cell?

    What has everyone done for starting batteries, I'm thinking of only running one, and having a jump unit in the boat in case, but I don't really want to run twin batteries for starting and backup, and then twins or a big one for the electric up front, just too much weight and mounting of stuff for a little tinny.

    The rest of the stuff is easy, live bait tank, bilge pumps, nav lights, under gunnel lights, front and rear spotties, that stuff is all the simple stuff.

    Anyway, what's your thoughts, on this and anything else while I'm kitting out a new toy?
    Cheers
    Corry

  2. #2

    Re: Garmin Gear and Lithium 24v Questions

    Lots of interesting questions Corry, to link all your electrinics you'll want a NMEA200 network, pretty easy to install, the biggest cost will be the Gateway cables. If you're wanting to be able to control the kraken from either garmin units I think you will 2 of them.
    Charging lithium batteries from your motor is unchartered waters for me but I suspect you will need a dc/dc charger but I'll leave that to others more knowledgeable.

    Edit: maybe only one gateway cable, not thinking to clearly. Still expensive for what it is.
    One of the sad signs of our times is that we have demonized those who produce, subsidized those who refuse to produce and canonized those who complain.
    Thomas Sowell

  3. #3

    Re: Garmin Gear and Lithium 24v Questions

    Id be doing some ringing around to the outboard dealer and asking that charing question you might burn the outboard altenator out.

  4. #4

    Re: Garmin Gear and Lithium 24v Questions

    Iím running a lithium start battery as an experiment. It works really well. There is one concern that I monitor and thatís the voltages at the top end. Because I donít want a BMS open circuiting on high voltage the voltages can get up there when theyíre full. So I monitor them closely when running and because Iím oversized on the house battery as far as capacity, I usually go out with it at about 80-90% full so when the VSR combines them I have somewhere for the outboard power to go.
    Democracy: Simply a system that allows the 51% to steal from the other 49%.

  5. #5

    Re: Garmin Gear and Lithium 24v Questions

    I've been looking at the Garmins and kraken for my new tinny too mate. The Kraken will connect wirelessly to your sounders but i don't know if the transducer does, I wouldn't think so but who knows these days.

    I'm trying to sort out my battery set up also and so far have 3 x century marine pros going in, 1. For start, 2. For sounder etc. And a 3rd for a fridge. These 3 will be charged with vsr's.

    Am still trying to decide on what I run for the electric but chances are it will be a 24v battery with a dcdc charger.

  6. #6

    Re: Garmin Gear and Lithium 24v Questions

    Corry and Marto, how important is on board charging to you guys? I haven't done the install (or bought the 36v electric) for the offshore boat yet. But on board charging and simplicity of the system is important to me.

    I have bought a 36v converter for the electric so that I can keep everything else 12v. I'll probably install a 300Ah 12v lithium battery as my house battery and run a DC-DC charger from each start battery (Cat) to the house. That will give me 40-50 amps in total of on board charging if I don't add solar. I've taken Nagg's extensive off shore use and 100ah (12v) as not being enough into account. @36v a 300ah battery (plus losses from the converter) is going to find myself in the same territory of not having enough for big days on the water. But with the dual motor charging and the way I fish it should be more than enough.

    https://revolutionpoweraustralia.com...r-12v-36v-50a/

    https://revolutionpoweraustralia.com...r-12v-24v-50a/
    Democracy: Simply a system that allows the 51% to steal from the other 49%.

  7. #7

    Re: Garmin Gear and Lithium 24v Questions

    Hi Corry

    I'm running a LiFePO4 cranking battery (Lithiumax restart 10)
    It's 1000CCA with 50amps deep cycle capacity. I then run a 100amp LiFePO4 has the house battery - A VSR is used for maintaining both batteries .

    This has been my set up since Aug 2021 & I'm happy so far.

    With regards to just running a single battery for your start & house requirements - I would strongly recommend against it .... particularly with your chosen electronics. My 2 Lowrance sounders with Live Target pull around 10amps / hr & even with the 100amp house battery I've still managed to shut down them down ( drawing them too low) . This scenario relates to trips where you do not run the motor for long enough to put the charge back into the batteries ( like Kinchant dam) ...... 3-4 days & they are done unless you charge them or drive around for a couple of hours .

    As a side note & you mentioned a jumper unit - After last years flat batteries I bought myself one of these bad boys - DSC_1025.jpg DSC_1024.jpg It's excellent jump starter which will fire up a truck - as well as being a useful battery pack .

    Chris






    Lithiumax NEW RESTART10 Bluetooth 1000CA with 100Ah PbEq
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  8. #8

    Re: Garmin Gear and Lithium 24v Questions

    Nagg are you using anything to regulate the charge profiles going into your start and house batteries? Or do you just monitor their voltages like a hawk like I do?
    Democracy: Simply a system that allows the 51% to steal from the other 49%.

  9. #9

    Re: Garmin Gear and Lithium 24v Questions

    I believe most Garmin units are multi volt so you could run them off the same battery as the Kraken. The yanks are big into running sounders on 24v as some say they work better?

    TMC

  10. #10

    Re: Garmin Gear and Lithium 24v Questions

    ultras are 9-18v
    GPSMaps are 10 - 32v
    lv34 and blavk box are 10-32v
    ethernet back bones are 9-16v

    I ran a 8412 8410 and lv32 live scope plus network backbone and could flatten a 100ah battery in a big days fishing on the dam

    century marine pro 980 hybrid lead acid for outboard start, lights and bilge pumps.
    1 x 12v renogy 100ah for sounders
    1 x 12v renogy 100ah for 12v motorguide x15
    and for a weekends fishing i left another 12v renogy at camp charging off solar

  11. #11

    Re: Garmin Gear and Lithium 24v Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Lovey80 View Post
    Nagg are you using anything to regulate the charge profiles going into your start and house batteries? Or do you just monitor their voltages like a hawk like I do?
    No - nothing

    I wouldn't say I monitor like a hawk either

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  12. #12

    Re: Garmin Gear and Lithium 24v Questions

    Chris, are you charging direct from the motor via vsr without a dc/dc charger?
    One of the sad signs of our times is that we have demonized those who produce, subsidized those who refuse to produce and canonized those who complain.
    Thomas Sowell

  13. #13

    Re: Garmin Gear and Lithium 24v Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Dignity View Post
    Chris, are you charging direct from the motor via vsr without a dc/dc charger?
    Yes just running a VSR to regulate the charging of the batteries

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  14. #14

    Re: Garmin Gear and Lithium 24v Questions

    Worth running the numbers on getting an 8412xsv at the helm. It has significantly higher screen resolution than the ultras. Then you have the option of using a waterproof touchscreen monitor like the Titan HD screens that Moose Marine sell. These are the same resolution as the 8412 in a 17.5 inch screen. Run a hdmi cable from the helm 8412 to the monitor up front and you can use it exactly like the 8412 while youíre up there. I went right into this last year but have not bought the Titan monitor yet. Cost of an 8412 and a 17.5inch monitor might not be too different to 2 ultras, and will have more resolution. Resolution matters more than size.
    i use a 24v 100ah lithium for my Minn Kota and easily get two full days estuary fishing in a 20ft glass boat from it. Itís not wired to anything else in the boat and throws a bit of interference for the 8412. I have a victron 24v 12amp charger that lives in the console near it, plug it in for a charge at home. I really like Loveyís solution with the voltage converter, that will be my starting point next time.
    Stuck with lead acids for crank and house for the time being, for simplicity and convenience, confidence. Will definitely transition to lithium for the house battery when it needs changing, assumed I would need a dc-dc charger? Although some batteries seem to have a BMS that negates the need for this?

  15. #15
    Ausfish Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Seaforth QLD & Cairns
    Thread Starter

    Re: Garmin Gear and Lithium 24v Questions

    Righto, lots of questions to answer, sorry, been away for the weekend.

    Quote Originally Posted by marto78 View Post
    I've been looking at the Garmins and kraken for my new tinny too mate. The Kraken will connect wirelessly to your sounders but i don't know if the transducer does, I wouldn't think so but who knows these days.
    I'm trying to sort out my battery set up also and so far have 3 x century marine pros going in, 1. For start, 2. For sounder etc. And a 3rd for a fridge. These 3 will be charged with vsr's.
    Am still trying to decide on what I run for the electric but chances are it will be a 24v battery with a dcdc charger.
    How have you gone finding a Kraken, all enquiries so far are not until Feb/Mar for the black ones. From what I've found, the transducer cable goes up the inside of the shaft and still needs to be connected, it just has cable management.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lovey80 View Post
    Corry and Marto, how important is on board charging to you guys? I haven't done the install (or bought the 36v electric) for the offshore boat yet. But on board charging and simplicity of the system is important to me.
    Yep, onboard charging is pretty important, normal daily trips not so bad, but I'm not sure what the power usage is going to be with this yet. I drained the 36v Lithium on our big boat in a day over the weekend while estuary fishing, every offshore trip I've done so far I haven't gotten it down below 80%, so this has upped the need for the roof solar.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lovey80 View Post
    I have bought a 36v converter for the electric so that I can keep everything else 12v. I'll probably install a 300Ah 12v lithium battery as my house battery
    This sounds like it could be a plan, except 24v for me instead of 36v. I'm going to look into this. Then maybe it could be charged via a DC-DC charger off the start battery.

    Quote Originally Posted by NAGG View Post
    Hi Corry
    With regards to just running a single battery for your start & house requirements - I would strongly recommend against it
    Sorry mate, didn't explain that too well, the single battery will be for starting only, not running anything else.

    Quote Originally Posted by NAGG View Post

    As a side note & you mentioned a jumper unit - After last years flat batteries I bought myself one of these bad boys - It's excellent jump starter which will fire up a truck - as well as being a useful battery pack .
    Ya not wrong, mine looks exactly the same, but red. Works like a charm, had to jump start out Top Ender the other week with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kev_McC View Post
    Worth running the numbers on getting an 8412xsv at the helm. It has significantly higher screen resolution than the ultras. Then you have the option of using a waterproof touchscreen monitor like the Titan HD screens that Moose Marine sell. These are the same resolution as the 8412 in a 17.5 inch screen.
    Reason I was thinking the Ultra's as I think the buttons on the side might be more useful, I've got twin 8412's in our big boat and trying to touch a screen at times is a PITA. But you're right, resolution might be the decider. And I've got no room for a 17.5" screen, I wish I did, but it's just a little 4.2m boat.

    So I'm now going to go away and research running 12v batteries with a 24v convertor, 3 for the elec/fridge and everything else, and 1 stand alone for the starter. Going to work out how to get the 3 charged from the starter once it's full if that's possible.
    Has anyone got any 'go to' places for their lithium batteries and chargers? I contacted iTechworld, but all my answers have been pretty short one liners, not forthcoming with any info or sounding interested in anything at all.

    Phew... now I need a drink
    Cheers
    Corry

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