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Thread: Electrical layout

  1. #1

    Electrical layout

    I think I've mentioned before that overkill is my thing

    A draft electrical layout for my 16' half cabin is below - system layout in the first pic then general schematics for the fuse boards thereafter. Overall intent is:


    1. Start and House batteries - Optima D34Ms under the front bunks; House to port and Start to starboard as best suits the crank circuit.
    2. Auto battery switching via Blue Sea Systems 60A 'Add-A-Battery Mini' kit comprising On/Off/Combined switch ('main switch') and 60A AVR.
    3. Additional Narva Mini isolator switches to each battery to allow some loads to be left on with main switch off, eg at anchor overnight.
    4. Direct fused charge ports (20A acc sockets) on each battery before the Narva isolators to allow shore charging of individual batteries with all loads + AVR isolated.


    Loads that I'm intending to have connected to the isolators (and thus stay active when the main switch is off) are:


    • bilge pumps - auto switch (SPX Johnson Ultima)
    • bilge pumps - manual override via dash switch
    • anchor light
    • horns
    • 12V socket at the front of the cabin for a WiFi IP camera


    Distribution Panels 2-4 could pretty easily be simplified to inline fuses but using fuse blocks is so much more elegant and they weigh bugger all, so I'm inclined to use them anyway.

    Suggestions and constructive criticism appreciated.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    Ausfish Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Kalbarri, WA

    Re: Electrical layout

    Hmm, few things to look at , there. I've rewired older boats, and completely wired my new Reefrunner a few years back. A few questions..
    1) This boat is only 16ft long. Why are you using no less than 4 separate fuse blocks? Space considerations? I see that 2 of them are directly fed from the Start battery. Your thinking is that you will turn off the House supply every time you get off the boat, and rely on the Start battery for your Auto Bilge pump. I'd be keeping the bilge pump away from the Start battery, I've seen them fault, and flatten the Start battery. General idea is that Start is Start, nothing else, motor sytems only.
    2) Switch everything. Including your MFD's and NMEA 2000 bus. This way, you can leave your House switch on. Agree with hard-wired Auto bilge pump, that's a standard, but from the House . You are dealing with , and understand the fact that, modern electronics have a constant drain when off. So you are dealing with this by just turning the House switch off, and hard-wiring bilge pumps and anchor light from the Start. Not what you want if you are anchoring overnight.
    3) You mention an AVR--I assume this is a VSR, to control charging of the House from Start , once Start battery voltage starts to rise. I am a fan of VSR's, but NOT the 60/80/120 amp type typically supplied as VSR's for boats. I fitted one of those, failed after 18 months. Next one lasted 12 months. Third one about the same. Started doing some reading of the source material on these things, rather than the sales blurb. And you discover that all these things have a built-in lag. So, if your start battery is still up, and the VSR closed, you are effectively drawing at least a few seconds of start current through the VSR. They don't like 200 amps or more. So they fail. There was a thread on this on this forum a while back. I went with a Redarc VSR, 400 amp rated--another member had one that had lasted 10 years on his boat.
    4) I have a bit more going on, like solar, a fridge, and a Travel Buddy. Solar MTTP regulator plugs into the House via an Andersen plug, bolted to top of battery box. Keep the di-electric grease up, no problems. Travel Buddy and Fridge are on mini-isolators. Also have aTuffwinch anchor winch, same size as GX3(?) Lonestar. Wired same as your proposition. And a craypot winch, Maxwell Anchormax, solenoid-controlled direct from House. The winch control also doubles up as a supply for the electric reels when needed.
    5) Consider using an intermediate termination strip. While this may seem to be adding complication, it actually makes fault finding or re-wiring so much easier. So, fuse panel--switch--intermediate strip, then to load. And get a little wire numbering kit off ebay, and name everything at every termination. I've put a few pics of my components below. I cettainly don't consider the panel to be anywhere near perfect, but I was extemely time constrained at the time considering I was doing a complete fit-out, was working FIFO, and had a deadline to meet. I've changed it a bit since, the NMEA bus now lives inside the dash, after I made that panel hinged and cut an access to the rear of the dash behind it.





    I thhink you are overthinking it a bit, and IMO, should stick to keeping Start battery for motor only, switch everything else, and run it off the House battery.


    Switch panel-after looking at all the crap on ebay, bought it from New Wire Marine in the US, very good price. I wired all the tails in before fitting it, keeps it tidy.







    If you are doing a layout on the switch panel think ergonomics and accessing things in the dark or bashing into a head sea. My four top switches are VHF, NMEA 200 supply, and my 2 MFD's. So they are the first on.The next two down are anchor and nav lights. Next two, cockpit and cabin lights. Then the rest like fresh water, deckwash, spreader lights, underwater lights can go anywhere. But I kept the wiper switch at the very bottom, right. Because you don't want to be fumbling around the the middle of your panel while you are banging away at speed, you'll be hitting the wrong switch half the time. As my panel space was a bit limited, I went with a remote head VHF and single Towpro engine gauge, and small Axiom stereo.

    I know some of this is getting a bit away from your original question, but it may give you something to think about.

  3. #3

    Re: Electrical layout

    Thanks for the feedback! Much appreciated.

    1) Until last night I was planning to have just one fuse block (the main 12 port) and use inline waterproof fuse holders at the other locations - which I can still do, but using fuse blocks seems neater and facilitates future expansion / troubleshooting. Each has a reason for existence as follows:

    Distro #1 - main fuse block behind the helm with non-critical systems that will be turned off at anchor
    Distro #2 - secondary fuse block behind the helm with critical systems that I want to be powered if the main switch is off (manual bilge override; anchor light; horns).
    Distro #3 - secondary fuse block on the port side with critical House bank systems that I want to run if the main switch is off (auto bilge; wifi camera socket).
    Distro #4 - secondary fuse block at the transom to power non-critical systems off the 2 B&S start cabling (Zipwake trim tabs; fuel flow meter)

    On second look, I can easily run Distro #2 off the House battery via the 2 B&S cable that feeds the Blue Sea main switch. That's a far better arrangement. For some reason I'd thought I would need to run another cable around to power it but the 2 B&S is right there already. Thanks - I probably shouldn't do this stuff at 2am after a dram or three of whiskey

    01 Circuit Layout.jpg03 Distribution Panel 2.jpg

    2) Dash space is extremely limited and I've used it all - I'm going to have to do a bit of glass work just to fit the sounder neatly. I don't have the space to neatly switch all loads from the dash, hence using main switch + isolator switches to differentiate between critical and non-critical systems. I do have one spare switch that I could use to switch all other devices but would need to fuse them after the switch, meaning a bunch of inline fuses or an additional independent circuit fuse block. Plus I'd run into the 20A switch rating and have to fuse that too. I prefer the isolator + main switch configuration.

    Switches are Carling C2 - same as New Wire Marine use - other than the horn which I wanted to be separate and obvious. I think the layout will work well. I'm going simple on the stereo and just using waterproof bluetooth speakers (probably UE Megaboom 3) - looked at including a Fusion MS-BB100 black box stereo but really don't have the space, and being able to move the Megabooms down to the stern or chuck them in the water with the kids is a bonus. The VHF is dash mounted - no room to flush mount it.

    06 Dash.jpg20220104_125351.jpg

    (nb: Vertical scale looks out of whack because the dash changes angle midway up. Paper templates on the dash were an earlier mockup. The glass work required to fit the 953xsv is infilling the recess at the top.)

    3) That's why I've included the optional 'start' wire to the ACR (auto charge relay; sorry, wrongly stated AVR earlier) - when the ignition switch is moved to the Start position, the ACR disconnects house loads for several minutes. Should avoid any issues with cranking current passing through the ACR, though it's rated to 115A for 5 minutes so would probably handle the DT85 starting current anyway.

    4) Yeah, mine is still a relatively simple install - just busy for a 16' boat. Your setup looks tidy

    5) Have considered intermediate termination strips and will do if I can possibly fit it on the panel. I have to make up a hinged Starboard panel behind the dash to hold most of this + the NMEA backbone and haven't mocked up the layout yet, but it will be tight for space. Definitely something I'll do if I have room though.

  4. #4

    Re: Electrical layout

    None of the following ever need to be on when at anchor so should al be combined with #1

    "secondary fuse block at the transom to power non-critical systems off the 2 B&S start cabling (Zipwake trim tabs; fuel flow meter)"

  5. #5

    Re: Electrical layout

    Quote Originally Posted by Dignity View Post
    None of the following ever need to be on when at anchor so should al be combined with #1

    "secondary fuse block at the transom to power non-critical systems off the 2 B&S start cabling (Zipwake trim tabs; fuel flow meter)"
    #4 is fed by the main switch so won't be on if anchoring overnight. The benefit of hooking it up to the 2 B&S engine cabling is I don't have to worry about voltage drop to the DB and will get a good clean feed to the Zipwakes, which are rated at 10A draw. Running them from #1 would mean another 5m x 6mm cable run from the helm, which is borderline at 10A, and I believe they are fussy about voltage drop.

    The only negative of hooking #4 up to that circuit is it's fed by the start battery, but the Zipwake interceptors only activate once moving (ie engine on) and the GFS10 is 0.5W max draw, so neither presents any risk of running the start battery down.

    05 Distribution Panel 4.jpg

  6. #6

    Re: Electrical layout

    Quote Originally Posted by Mopheus View Post
    #4 is fed by the main switch so isn't on at anchor - see the note underneath it in the layout schematic below. To run the Zipwakes + GFS10 from #1 would require an additional 5m cable run to the transom using at 6mm wire minimum and doesn't really achieve anything. I like each of the distribution boards being hooked up to the 2 B&S 'backbone' as voltage drop to the DBs will be negligible.

    05 Distribution Panel 4.jpg
    I still not sure why you would want an extra distribution panel just to handle these items, unless it is going to be closer to the stern rather than behind the dash. I ran quite heavy duty cable up to my dash and have 2 distribution boxes, the wiring back to zip wakes (trim tabs) are quite small, they actually don't draw much power. I just felt it was simpler to take power up to the dash and run from there, there probably is a simpler way of doing it but I noticed by the number of wires Ranmar has it appears not. Things that draw power is deck wash, electric winches, bait pumps and these are as close to the supply and source as possible.

  7. #7

    Re: Electrical layout

    Quote Originally Posted by Dignity View Post
    I still not sure why you would want an extra distribution panel just to handle these items, unless it is going to be closer to the stern rather than behind the dash. I ran quite heavy duty cable up to my dash and have 2 distribution boxes, the wiring back to zip wakes (trim tabs) are quite small, they actually don't draw much power. I just felt it was simpler to take power up to the dash and run from there, there probably is a simpler way of doing it but I noticed by the number of wires Ranmar has it appears not. Things that draw power is deck wash, electric winches, bait pumps and these are as close to the supply and source as possible.
    DB #4 will be installed on the transom via a Starboard mounting plate, right up high under the rear deck skin where it's well protected from water. The 2 B&S will run from the main switch at the helm back to Power Poles installed next to the splash well (to allow a neat transition to the existing 3 B&S loom - the outboard grommet doesn't have enough meat to fit 2 B&S), and I'll connect DB #4 to those Power Poles.

    I could just come off the Power Poles with inline fuses for the Zipwakes and GFS10, but I like the modular nature of a distribution panel. Easy to troubleshoot and add things.

    Running from the dash is fine but (i) 6mm cable is at its limit and (ii) installing something else down the line, like a baitboard light, would need another full cable run. Installing a distribution panel at the stern fixes both of those. I'm trying to use just 2 B&S, 3 B&S, 6mm and 4mm cable for simplicity so 5m at 10A is right at the limit of 6mm, and I'm not keen on introducing 6 AWG or similar to fill the gap.

  8. #8

    Re: Electrical layout

    Mopheus, i may have missed it or maybe its been covered but are you also switching the auto bilge feed. Reason being i have been on heaps of boats where the auto float switch buggers up and there is no way to turn the bloody thing off apart from disconnecting it. I always switch my auto side as well, just turn it on when im sleeping or boat is moored/anchored, apart from when i need the auto function it remains turned off and i just use the manual on//off mostly.
    Scott

  9. #9

    Re: Electrical layout

    The auto bilge switch is an SPX Johnson Ultima field effect sensor so should be pretty resilient. If it faults then removing the fuse from Distribution Panel #3 will disable the auto circuit. I'm happy with that setup - I prefer the auto bilge circuit to be on-unless-disabled rather than switched.

  10. #10
    Ausfish Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Kalbarri, WA

    Re: Electrical layout

    My particular take on turning everything off via a master when at anchor, except for the anchor light and auto bilge pump, is this--and will vary as to whether the anchoring is meant for an unattended boat or one you are actually sleeping on. If you are sleeping on board, I take the attitude that I want everything ready for instant use, if, say, for example a big squall from a bad direction blows up, and the need is to get the hell out of there. I don't want to be having to turn master switches on before I can get the plotter, etc, going. My gear starts in the state it was shut down in, so, if I just shut them off via the switch, I only have to turn those switches back in and it swings into action. ( I normally shut them down properly, on the device, but this feature is useful in this situation) So, top 5 switches on and I have all electronics and navlights which means compass light, and the anchor is being winched while the screens are coming on, using the compass for heading info in the interim.
    Of course if you are not sleeping on board, it changes. You eventually get up, shine the spotlight around looking for the boat, and see an upturned hull Sorry, just watched that Briggsy's Offshore Adventures or whatever he calls it, where they found the Contender 25 upside down in the morning.

    Some good input in this thread from everyone, you've probably already got the impression that I enjoy this sort of stuff as much as Mopheus seems to . We are probably both OCD. I prefer to call it CDO, so the letters are in alphabetical order

    Scottars comment on the auto bilge pumps is pertinent--some of the integrated auto types are known for failure, up to the point of melting, without blowing a fuse. With the Rule model everyone points fingers at, I believe it is due to leaving them on Auto when the boat is out of the water, as they actually automatically turn on at set intevals to look for water, rather than just wait for a signal from an external float switch. So, like Scottar, mine stays on manual when I am fishing, and only goes on Auto when sleeping/moored.

    I understand your theory behind having the fuse panel down under the transom, with a separate feed, to cut down wiring run lengths. But it is very difficult to keep a fuse block like that functioning over the long term in that sort of position, even if it looks like it should'nt get splash. The driest part of a boat of that size is usually up under the dash, and you need to have it mounted so you can sit down and look at it square-on. Not lying on your back looking up at something mounted up under a cap. Your run lengths on a boat of that size really aren't much, particularly if you are running 4mm.

    I don't know what kind of wiring support you have under your gunwhales--mine has pipe sections glassed in at intervals. If you need support, consider using marine sikaflex to fix sections of pvc pipe under the gunwhale.

    The intermediate termination strips may seem to add to complexity, but you are not adding any wires by doing it. It can reduce wires to the switch panel--say you have two feeds running from one fuse/switch circuit. Might be to paired lights either side of the boat, running off a common switch. So, Fuse--Switch panel--intermediate strip--then the final run of wiring to each separate device can be doubled on the intermediate. Or, say you decide you want to change what switches what ( or that you have wired to wrong switch ) You just change it at the intermediate. DAMHIK. I vowed I would not be touching the rear of that switch panel once it was all nicely loomed and installed, the intermediate strip means I don't have to. I've seen too many dog's breakfasts behind panels on boats.

    I understand your considerations of what is possible is limited by dash space, and you can't fit a big panel. So your idea of just using mini-isolators instead of multiple switches makes more sense now. But a separate voltmeter and clock? Can't get them to display on the MFD instead , room for more switches? My switch panel is huge--I had to work out all my layout before I actually got my hands on the new boat, relying on someone to message me the dash dimensions. And everything had to be there before the boat arrived, I was really pushing against time, working a FIFO roster 9 on 5 off. Boat was 2 months late . Came with steering pre-installed, fuel tank sender and navlights installed, the rest was all mine to stuff up. Motor was at dealer 150k's away. Long story short, had 2 R&R's to get it fitted out and sea-trialled. You lay out all the paper templates, get it to fit and match your theoretical layout, take a deep breath, and start cutting.

    Started with this




    and this




    Get to this stage, and can't see an end to it.





    But you have a trip away long-planned, and a set time to finish it. So you get it splashed, get a quick 20 hrs up in 2 day trips, first service, then away for a month in a remote area, fingers crossed. And it all works.

    I thought of suggesting that you expand your dash, which is always a consideration with older boats, then realised you have the old beige/coffee colour for the cap, and there is no way you are ever going to colour-match that, apart from the actual work involved. After you glass old holes and do the new cut-outs, are you going to put something like dark lexan over the whole surface?

  11. #11

    Re: Electrical layout

    It's unlikely we'll sleep on the boat other than napping while night fishing - not enough room. The main switch will be accessible from the driver's seat, down by my knee. I think it's just a matter of preference - I prefer one main switch to bring everything online rather than individual switches on the dash.

    Agree re the set interval bilge pumps - I simply wouldn't fit one. Hence the Ultima switch which should be less prone to faults than a timer or float switch. I'll revisit switching of that circuit if it ever fails; having it unswitched is my preference though, as it's one less thing that can be forgotten.

    Gunwale support is glassed-in pipe sections with holes for zip ties. I've ordered termination strips so they will be fitted if I can possibly fit them on the panel - will work on panel layout once most of the bits arrive and I can check their dimensions.

    Black lexan is my backup plan but I'm taking on the colour match challenge

  12. #12

    Re: Electrical layout

    Have a look at a blue seas "add a Battery " kit. ully seperates start and house loads and shares when appropiate charing voltage is attained. has a mater OFF position and On Postion and an Emergency paraelle position. Basic operation is on and off and the switch does the rest of the charing management. also has an opitional LED circuit to show when chargeing both batteries and a "crank" protection circuit to momenteraly isolate the house battery to prtect the electronics from a voltage spike /drop during starting.

    BigE
    Attached Images Attached Images

  13. #13

    Re: Electrical layout

    Yeah, that's what I'm using for the dual battery system - just the 'mini' 60A version as both the switch and the ACR are smaller than the 120A version.

  14. #14

    Re: Electrical layout

    I installed a small LED on the dash to mimic the LED on the switch unit so i could tell when the batteries were in paraelle and both charegeing. it is a nice to have option and just a nice feeling when heading out.

    BigE
    Quote Originally Posted by Mopheus View Post
    Yeah, that's what I'm using for the dual battery system - just the 'mini' 60A version as both the switch and the ACR are smaller than the 120A version.

  15. #15

    Re: Electrical layout

    I showed a dash LED for the ACR on my schematic but that was based on the 120A version - the 65A version that I bought instead (due to size) doesn't have an LED output. The ACR will be installed where it's visible from the helm though so I'll be able to check the onboard LED.

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