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Thread: Alvey Deck winch.

  1. #1
    Ausfish Addict disorderly's Avatar
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    Alvey Deck winch.

    So I'm looking for a Reef Queen to try and beat the sharks when fishing for reds in 50-80m..

    Just a couple of questions ...

    If I have 200lb braid on with equivalent mono leader how do I go about getting off a snag or if I hook a large shark in the corner of the mouth...for now with 80lb braid I just wrap a cloth around my hand and I can mostly bust off at the knot between line and leader...although we dont get too many snags in the deeper water with paternoster rigs it can still happen....200 lb I will have no chance..

    What do people do..?

    and considering there is often a fair bit of current out wide is braid my only choice..?

    and if buying second hand do i need to look at or check the clutch/drag system..?

  2. #2

    Re: Alvey Deck winch.

    Quote Originally Posted by disorderly View Post
    So I'm looking for a Reef Queen to try and beat the sharks when fishing for reds in 50-80m..

    Just a couple of questions ...

    If I have 200lb braid on with equivalent mono leader how do I go about getting off a snag or if I hook a large shark in the corner of the mouth...for now with 80lb braid I just wrap a cloth around my hand and I can mostly bust off at the knot between line and leader...although we dont get too many snags in the deeper water with paternoster rigs it can still happen....200 lb I will have no chance..

    What do people do..?

    and considering there is often a fair bit of current out wide is braid my only choice..?

    and if buying second hand do i need to look at or check the clutch/drag system..?
    Wrapping with your hands even with 80 lb is not a good idea, I use the priest, it is nice and sturdy and a couple of wraps around that and you can use both hands to pull free. With 200lb we usually back over the line and sometimes a little past the snag to try and free it. usually comes good but beware if it is in the rod holder and doesn't pull free first up cheap rod holders will just bust up and pull out of the coaming. If it is a shark though usually the line will wear through on their skin first, never found a way to bust them off with 200 lb but then usually using it in 150m plus and tend to get green eye sharks rather than the big nasties so it's not usually a problem for us.

  3. #3
    Ausfish Platinum Member
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    Re: Alvey Deck winch.

    I've used a Reefmaster with braid ( owned them for many years, cleaned one up and put 120lb braid on it, before I decided to go electric) I think 200lb braid is overkill. 120lb is plenty, seeing as how most braid breaks well over rating anyway. Why not stick with 80lb braid--good quality is more like 100lb b/s anyway. 80lb is all we use with the big electrics, and they will pull up a good fish a damn sight quicker than you will with an Alvey, unless you are an Americas' Cup-grade winch winder. We use 80lb braid, 120lb mono-wind-ons for handling near the boat and some shock absorption, 120lb paternoster rigs, and a lighter mono leader between the bottom of the rig and the sinker, to snap off if sinker-snagged. The only drawback with braid and stuff like Alveys is that you don't have the shock-absorbing capabilities of a rod in there, the strain is really on the bottom rig, get two big fish head-shaking hard against one another and the unyielding braid, quite possible to snap one off. So keep your leaders fairly heavy, at 120lb. And I would have a mono shock leader above the rig as well, use a wind-on ( make them yourself, so you can grab it to lift the catch and sinker over as well as being a shock-absorber).
    HTH

    The drag systems on them are pretty bulletproof, just simple washers, just keep screwing them down until they hold. My two did commercial duty for a number of years, hauling up whatever you could get on up to 20 hooks out of water up to 100m deep ( rarely less than 70m,) didn't bother them one bit.

  4. #4

    Re: Alvey Deck winch.

    As Ranmar suggests I run 6 to 8 metres of leader before attaching the rigs, often it is mono of similar strength to the braid, since doing that to all my rigs where paternoster or floaters the catch rate seems to have improved.

    The other thing I forgot was that I was on board a vessel where a bloke lost some digits due to braid, most times you can get away from it but this time there was a sudden tightening as the boat turned into some swell and we had an emergency on board and two an half hours from help.

  5. #5
    Ausfish Platinum Member
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    Re: Alvey Deck winch.

    Nasty. As Dignity says above, and you probably know by now, be VERY careful around braid under tension. If I get to where I need to snap it off, it gets wrapped around a handy cleat. Another reason to have a good length of heavy mono above your rig, for grabbing hold of, as well as the shock aborbing.

    Some of the things we are doing, when it gets to the heavier end of the tackle spectrum, are increasingly risky. Like the above scenario. My personal hate is effing sharks boatside--you winch 2 metres of thickskin off the bottom , and he is still full of fight boatside. And you have the second 14/0 tuna circle flying around trying to snag you, , particularly if he is on the bottom hook. Nowadays, I get hold of the leader and lock the loose hook onto a cleat, hold that snood to lock it in--once secured, the shark is then fighting the boat, and you can deal with him with a lot less risk.

  6. #6

    Re: Alvey Deck winch.

    I usually have several pairs of good quality scissors available on the bait board, any chance of a hook going into someone and it gets snipped. Deep dropping I have enough spare rigs, undo a snap a new rig is on, the old one minus a hook or two easily recycled later down the track. Shallower waters, much easier to tie on a new rig than try surgical procedures on a boat. I do make a few rigs up before hand, put them into the biggest zip lock bag I can buy and 1 knot and you're ready to go. Sacrifice a hook (and some are up near the $ mark) rather than operate on some one who has a hook in them. The problem is that there isn't much flesh in the hands, strike bone and you could be in deadly serious trouble. Had a mate with a hook in his thumb, it was touch and go whether he lost his whole hand for a while. Not an isolated incident, seen it happen in the field at work. BIL just went through hell just by nicking his shin bone a couple if weeks ago. Us anglers play in a very risky environment, take care everyone.

  7. #7
    Ausfish Addict disorderly's Avatar
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    Re: Alvey Deck winch.

    Thanks for the advice guys..

    and thanks for saving my hands in the future Sam..it never actually occurred to me to use the donger to pull off stuck line..I have had some wicked braid cuts on the hands and fingers over the years as mentioned its evil stuff and can cut like a knife, under tension...didnt really think about the possibility of losing an actual finger, though I bet that was a nasty experience to see that...

    Part of getting these winchs is too make it worthwhile for the missus to get a Red or 2 as well...

    When I'm fishing wide and deep she finds it difficult to get a big fish up before the sharks using an egg beater with braid and a big snapper lead...she has never actually landed a legal red yet...then she loses interest or I lose interest having to re-rig her line..

    Ok so regarding the sizing...The Reefmaster like ranmars is about 12 inchs diameter, the Queen is 14 and the King is 16 inch ..The Reefmaster retrieves about 750mm of line each turn, with the Queen at about 1000mm and the King at 1300mm...


    Btw a pro up here is using 200lb braid with 120 lb leader..some pro's use even heavier.line..so I was thinking 200lb or 130lb for braid...As Ranmar suggests 130lb would likely be fine for us and a bit easier to deal with for an inevitable snag..

    alvey rod holder.jpgalvey g clamp.jpg

    A couple of questions..

    Are the larger models more difficult to use or just more bulky..?

    Best way to mount..?..Was thinking either the rod holder mount or bend some pipe to fit in 2 adjoining rod holders and use the G clamp fitting..any idea's..?

    Whats the advantages of that roller on the top in the photo above with the black winch as opposed to the one that protrudes from the bottom...?

    cheers Scott

  8. #8

    Re: Alvey Deck winch.

    Gday Scott, I use winches now and again. I did use them predominantly until I got electrics. I have a reefmaster and a reef queen. To be honest, I find the reef master just as easy and easier to store in the boat. I very rarely use both hands to wind. I have mounts built onto the boat to accept the spigot on the winch. I have also welded a tube ontop of the winch and run a heavy rod both for a bit of give and to keep the line away from the boat a bit.
    I do have a clamp mount that I haven’t ever used but I think it would be difficult to stop it spinning over under heavy load.
    I only run 100lb braid and fish up to 300m with it catching Barcod.


    Sent from my iPhone using Ausfish forums
    The wait is finally over.........was worth every minute..........let the RIPTIDE rip..........hell yehhhh

  9. #9

    Re: Alvey Deck winch.

    Easiest ones to use are the dual handles - easier more balanced retrieve, more cranking power, less fatigue. The heavier braid, though tougher to break, is nicer to handle and can actually assist in getting less cuts during "normal" fishing operations - specially when deep dropping where the weight of the sinker at times is enough to make thinner braid cut into nice soft, wet hands. Make sure she is comfortable cranking whichever one you get - the kings are pretty big. There are a few reefmaster duals kicking around but most are singles. The queen is the most common of the dual units. When using the priest - make sure the braid doesn't cross over itself as you wrap it or it will cut itself.

    As for the eggbeater - if she isn't already using one, look into a parabolic action jigging rod. Straight up not the best for fish hooking as they tend to be a bit tip heavy but as a fish fighting tool, second to none IMO. I run a 25000 Saragosa on a T-Curve 200 and coupled with a short, fast pump and wind action similar to that used in stand up game fishing - doesn't rely on just the arms, some big stuff comes up pretty quick - keep their head pointing up and they can only swim that way.
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  10. #10
    Ausfish Addict disorderly's Avatar
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    Re: Alvey Deck winch.

    Scott, the 2 main issues are not being able to drag the big ones up fast enough and the weight of a rod and reel for the missus which gets tiring after a couple of deep drops for her...that saragosa you use is a pretty heavy reel and she is well into her 50's and we mostly spend a couple of days out doing different types of fishing and a some time in the water as well ..it really does get tiring....I wish we were 25 again...

    and thanks for the advice not to cross the braid over the top of itself...there would be a few bucks in the swear jar if i did that..

    My god thats an absolute monster..!!..is that a Bar Cod ...you sure know how to impress the girls...

    Anyweather, do you think maybe I should be looking at an electric reel and bent butt rod for her...I hadnt even really thought about that option before...though I think the missus likes the simplicity of the big alveys ..

  11. #11

    Re: Alvey Deck winch.

    Black Cod as best we could figure out. Came up out of 80 metres and unfortunately was pretty much dead from barotrauma when it hit the surface to the point it's scales were lifting or it most certainly would have been released. I now carry a much heavier release weight should it happen again - for whatever good it may do. Couldn't weigh it..........couldn't lift it solo.

    I've set my winch up on a rod holder mount - bent bit of pipe with a bush in the top basically. Make sure your rod holders are up to the task - including the gimbal pin - potentially there is a lot of force generated. I had to reinforce my gunwale with a backing plate in an attempt to stop it flexing.

    Advantages of the rod and roller - adds a bit more give to the system, gets the line into an area where you can sort of feel for bites easier without having to lean over so much (and on some set ups can see them) and gives more clearance off the gunwale.

    Electrics - if you spend most of the time with only moderate weights (up to 30 ounce) and not catching monster cod, it's probably the way to go. I find it a more enjoyable fishing experience than the winches - can see the bites better, rod bending and carrying on during the retrieve. The winches IMO make the whole process a bit more harvesting - rather than fishing but they will potentially be a better tool for beating the tax man - depends on how motivated your missus is .

  12. #12

    Re: Alvey Deck winch.

    Hi Scott, yeh mate after using electrics in the deep, it is hard work going back. I only use the electrics over 150m but I can see your use for your wife chasing reds. I don’t use a bent butt, I only use a 15-24kg shims o rod and it is soft enough to see bites but strong enough to get a decent fish up from 300m

    Lee


    Sent from my iPhone using Ausfish forums
    The wait is finally over.........was worth every minute..........let the RIPTIDE rip..........hell yehhhh

  13. #13

    Re: Alvey Deck winch.

    I have used a reef queen in over 300m with out difficulty, it's hard work though, usually use about 100-120 pound braid and about 70lb rigs with the sinker on a 30lb leader so it breaks off easy if snagged.

  14. #14
    Ausfish Addict disorderly's Avatar
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    Re: Alvey Deck winch.

    I think we will try the Alveys first and see how they go..we have seen a few that seemed reasonably priced in NSW but didnt last long..a few we have come across in FNQ have been asking close to new price for ...probably as much as they actually cost when new..lol...

    We will keep looking and something will come up..

    Bloody alvey's huh..!..I have a couple of smaller reels in the shed that my late granddad originally had...pretty rough and rudimentary but such a simple system that lasts forever..

  15. #15

    Re: Alvey Deck winch.

    Try a braid buster ..... there cheap and work well i have broke 150lbs with it , 200 lbs may be a bit of work.

    use winches in the deep passed 200m , but prefer gunnel rods any shallower than than.

    BigE

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