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Thread: Lithium Starter battery??

  1. #46

    Re: Lithium Starter battery??

    Quote Originally Posted by chris69 View Post
    So you cant have a battery that is smarter than your engine charging system.
    Certainly not good to have one that disconnects itself. Seen plenty of stuff let the magic smoke out when that happens over the years.

  2. #47

    Re: Lithium Starter battery??

    Quote Originally Posted by disorderly View Post
    I saw this new bulletin today.....I wonder if other manufacturers will follow Mercuries lead.....you wouldnt bother risking it if your Merc was under under warranty would you...

    Attachment 123813
    I note this refers to Lithium Ion (LiCoO2 or LiMn2O4) which is different to Lithium Iron (LiFePO4) this is the battery most of us are interested in as far as a lithium starter. It may just be a typo or a generalization. I'm very keen but not keen enough to risk using Lithiums on a 2 year old outboard yet.
    Thanks for posting Disorderly.

    TMC

  3. #48

    Re: Lithium Starter battery??

    lithium batteries have extremely low internal resistance and will accept a rate of charge greatly exceeding any outboards alternator rating. so it will smoke the altenaror..

    To charge from an alternator you need a smart external regulator with a temperature feedback.

    Also with a conventional charging cct once fully charged the BMS of the Lipo4 batt (they all have) will open and the altenator will go from charging into a load to open cct which will smoke the altenator regulator

    As the newer outboards are regulated from their ECU you will blow that which is expensive. If u want to run Lithium (amd they are a good thing) use an AGM or lead acid start and a dc/dc charger to lithium house.

  4. #49
    Ausfish Addict disorderly's Avatar
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    Re: Lithium Starter battery??

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mad Cat View Post
    I note this refers to Lithium Ion (LiCoO2 or LiMn2O4) which is different to Lithium Iron (LiFePO4) this is the battery most of us are interested in as far as a lithium starter. It may just be a typo or a generalization. I'm very keen but not keen enough to risk using Lithiums on a 2 year old outboard yet.
    Thanks for posting Disorderly.

    TMC
    Yeah I thought of you and your thread when I saw the bulletin, mate..also I think Lovey was looking into this option also..

    I would take it as meaning LiFePO4 which seems to be commonly called "Lithium ion" ...?..you would think they would be more specific though..

    Its good you didnt go ahead with the swap to a lithium starter battery yet...

    I had thought of the issue more in terms of the possibility of damaging the battery...hadnt really thought about the possible damage to the ECU or a high temp shutdown disabling the motor without warning......wouldnt that be lovely during a bar crossing or in big seas...!

    Seems to be a similar situation with electric motors where the main problem is that the motors are not quite "Lithium ready" yet...

  5. #50

    Re: Lithium Starter battery??

    Quote Originally Posted by cpt snapper View Post
    Yes have been using a 60Ah LiFePO4 Winston Battery (EV Works) for almost 3 years to start a Honda 150, had a similar setup for Suzuki 140, started every time and running the usual electronics. Then have twin setup (24V) to run xi5.
    It's all enough to really make my head hurt, so much differing information out there. Snapper has been using them for long enough to know whether the alternator is affected (see quote above).
    I only just replaced my 2 batteries with Delcor's, so should not need batteries for a few years hopefully.
    It's a subject that I'm still interested in because I am very pleased with the Lithiums for the Minn Kota.

    TMC

  6. #51

    Re: Lithium Starter battery??

    I am about to go through this head fck myself. I bought a set of 40Ah Winston lithium cells from EV works and a set of 163ah calb cells for the house battery.

    everyone I’ve spoken to so far seems to have it dialled in when the start battery is some sort of lead acid. Lead acid to dc/dc to Lithium. Sweet. But I haven’t seen anything online that details what’s needed when the start battery is lithium. I guess I’m about to be the guinea pig.
    Democracy: Simply a system that allows the 51% to steal from the other 49%.

  7. #52

    Re: Lithium Starter battery??

    Good on you Lovey, I hope it works out well for you.
    There seem to be plenty of 4x4s using them according to the companies who sell Lithium's that are suitable as a start battery.
    When did alternators on passenger vehicle's become smart enough to handle Lithium's?

    TMC

  8. #53
    Ausfish Gold Member 552Evo's Avatar
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    Re: Lithium Starter battery??

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mad Cat View Post
    It's all enough to really make my head hurt, so much differing information out there. Snapper has been using them for long enough to know whether the alternator is affected (see quote above).
    I only just replaced my 2 batteries with Delcor's, so should not need batteries for a few years hopefully.
    It's a subject that I'm still interested in because I am very pleased with the Lithiums for the Minn Kota.

    TMC
    What sort of setup do you have to charge the lithium (lifepo4 ?) on the water with the Kota ?


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  9. #54
    Ausfish Addict disorderly's Avatar
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    Re: Lithium Starter battery??

    Quote Originally Posted by Lovey80 View Post
    I am about to go through this head fck myself. I bought a set of 40Ah Winston lithium cells from EV works and a set of 163ah calb cells for the house battery.

    everyone I’ve spoken to so far seems to have it dialled in when the start battery is some sort of lead acid. Lead acid to dc/dc to Lithium. Sweet. But I haven’t seen anything online that details what’s needed when the start battery is lithium. I guess I’m about to be the guinea pig.
    What have you decided to do about your BMS..?

  10. #55

    Re: Lithium Starter battery??



    link doesn't seem to work. youtube
    How to not blow up your Alternator when charging Lithium


  11. #56

    Re: Lithium Starter battery??

    Quote Originally Posted by disorderly View Post
    What have you decided to do about your BMS..?
    no decisions yet. No advice so far that it can actually be done. One “Battery Specialist” tried telling me it won’t even start my outboard. Others are telling me it’s highly not recommended. One told me a DC/DC charger may be useless as the 19amp alternator is too small to deliver enough amps to charge the batteries.
    Democracy: Simply a system that allows the 51% to steal from the other 49%.

  12. #57
    Ausfish Addict disorderly's Avatar
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    Re: Lithium Starter battery??

    Quote Originally Posted by Lovey80 View Post
    no decisions yet. No advice so far that it can actually be done. One “Battery Specialist” tried telling me it won’t even start my outboard. Others are telling me it’s highly not recommended. One told me a DC/DC charger may be useless as the 19amp alternator is too small to deliver enough amps to charge the batteries.
    How many of those "experts" said they have actually tried it though or can at least explain the science of why it wont work..?

    Its crazy how difficult it is to find good info.

    Not sure if you have tried these groups...but you may find someone with some real world experience....

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/427372107686109

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/561173067826401

  13. #58

    Re: Lithium Starter battery??

    [QUOTE=552Evo;1685123]What sort of setup do you have to charge the lithium (lifepo4 ?) on the water with the Kota ?

    http://www.gsl.com.au/voltage-double...e-circuit.html

    Hope the link works Evo, the one on top is what I am using.
    I'm not sure if I would fit one again. We go out fully charged usually of an afternoon, fish maybe 3-4 hours then a bit at night if the tides are good and then again for a few hours in the morning with a bit of a troll if we want a mac or two then long run home. We have never run out of power with the way we fish. 100ah at 24v 6.4m glass boat, weight on the water 2 tonne.

    TMC

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