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Thread: Double Island Lagoon netted and cleaned-out by the pro's!!!How can this be allowed???

  1. #91
    Yeah linds, back to what I can do, hey keen to catch up at some point. Planning a trip with a couple o mates to the penne, and keen to pick your brain.

  2. #92

    Re: Double Island Lagoon netted and cleaned-out by the pro's!!!How can this be allowe

    Thanks for all of your (and others) efforts Lindsay. I have written to the Minister and expressed my opinion (and shared my experiences) and would be happy to do whatever I can to support you in your endeavors which sound 'spot on'!

    I'm not sure what you think but I also feel strongly that Jet Skis should not be allowed in DI lagoon as on a number of occasions up there (especially when it was warmer) I saw jet skiers hooning across the lagoon at high speeds endangering the lives of children (and everyone else) swimming. Its like they just own the lagoon when they are up there. Not to mention that they seem unsupervised (and thus uncontrolled) and they spew petrol into the lagoon which at best is a fragile micro environment which I believe should be 'off limits' to anything but electrically powered craft.

    Thanks to the efforts of people like yourself we may yet have a heritage which can be passed down to future generations. Again anything I can do to support you just sing out.

  3. #93

    Re: Double Island Lagoon netted and cleaned-out by the pro's!!!How can this be allowe

    True Terry. We were catching Bream, Flathead and Whiting prior to the nets. They were not in great numbers but they were there and it is a little piece of Paradise which needs protecting. One thing I note from your story is that you didn't run into the Jet Skiers when there. That my have changed your experience somewhat as it has mine on occasion. But that's another story.

  4. #94

    Re: Double Island Lagoon netted and cleaned-out by the pro's!!!How can this be allowe

    Going back 20 years I lived on a much loved outer Moreton Bay Island for around 6 years full time, and about another 7 years 'drifting' in and out of the place to visit the folks (really to go fishing and surfing - seeing the folks was a bonus). I loved my beach fishing there. I have seen what the 'pro's netters' do to the ocean.

    More than once I was threatened by one group of these 'professional's' on this Island (I remember their words "We'll put you in hospital") as I too targeted "their" mullet, tailor, and I had a go at them for netting Dart. I remember shutting one of these charming types up by threatening to reveal to the mainland Police where his Pot was growing. For some reason he left me alone after that, that was after he threatened me with a machette. He was using the machette to clear the scrub (illegally) so that he could see who was jagging "his" mullet off the point in question and call in the Ranger (who always took their side - small community and its even smaller in the pub)

    This particular group of netters also didn't like me because I had a go at them for the amount of death with the by catch they caused. I remember telling one of the pros that I'd leave "their" mullet alone if they'd leave "my" Dart alone. He denied netting Dart, despite the fact it was in the local mainland shops and I'd seen his crew do it.

    Beach fishing and surfing was my life back then, and I knew where to go and when to go to catch excellent beach fish. When the pros were about, unless the tailor were running, or there were snags in the water from beach erosion, I just didn't bother fishing.

    I've seen these 'pros' throw undersized fish on the beach and leave them to die, which I confronted them about. As a kid I used to swim out behind the nets and catch the stunned mullet that escaped as they pulled the nets in. Other people would see me do it, and when the net crossed the shallows, others would also follow the nets in (as the mullet jump and swim under the net they'd be totally disorientated).They hated me doing this as it meant less money for them, as I and others didn't have to buy from them. Totally legal, but they would threaten me all the same as if they owned the Island / ocean / mullet outside of their nets.

    Once I went down to fish the 'Pin. Mullet strewn all along the beach for kms. When I got back home I told one of my parent's good friends, an Aboriginal Elder born and bred in the Bay, and I was told told that the price must have fallen out of the market for mullet, as he'd seen it happen before. He told me it was a practice to dump the catch so that their competitors would not profit a week or two later when the fish had migrated north, out of their reach and into the turf of their competitors, by which time the market may have picked up. Turns out many of the long time locals back then knew of the practice and most found the practice abhorent.

    Reagrding the mullet I'd seen strewn all along the beach that day, I did not see who put them there on mass. Tractor tyre tracks everywhere on the beach, signs of net drag tracks on the beach. You didn't have to be Einstien to work it out. Some of the campers at the Pin I spoke to, told me that they'd seen the pros that day. Hmmmm I wonder who did it????? I said the same to the DPI.

    I reported it to DPI. Nothing happened. Some PS is not going to get up early and get on a barge, possibly spend the night (or two) to monitor fishing in these hard to get to places (yet a stone's throw from Brisbane). And that's a big part of the problem. In isolated areas my bet is some ratbags probably flout the laws.

    I have no doubt that the pro's I see on the Sunshine Coast where I live, are much more ethical than the one's I crossed paths with with 20 years ago on an outer Moreton Bay Is. Probably because it's easier for the wider public to see what these guys are up too. That said I don't do too much beach fishing now, but I don't bother spending my hard earned going to to camp at Teewah between June and September because of the Pros. December to April is the time to go up - when the pros are not around. Like the Island I used to live on, there is no point in fishing (or spending your hard earned) when these guys have been through. The nets kill everything. Surely after all these years of beach netting, a net can't be developed to limit the by-kill?

    If you want to get on the pro netters nerves, if you ever see a black ball of tailor in the ocean on one of those classic, clean, westerly wind days and they are within casting reach - and you feel like getting a feed whilst saving the majority of the school (when the pros are around), put on a metal slice lure, and cast it out into the black ball of tailor. Encourage other fisho's to do the same, but use metal, not bait. You will each catch two or three fish before spooking the school, where they usually move out of casting range, and out of range of the netters. Other things you can do on such days, with the schools of mullet is get a light cast net, and throw it. I guarantee you will catch a very good feed of fresh sea mullet (absolutley delicious), before the school spooks and moves off. I've had the pros get aggressive towards me on numerous occasions for doing both, even though I am legally entitled to do so. And for those who think I'm a mongerel doing this, I've seen the pro's net right in the same hole as a few rec fishers. They don't give a rats about the rec fishos if they think they can get away with it. Real bully boy tactics. I've seen them want to net a tailor run once, but with 100 rec anglers fishing, all with knives they decided against it that day.

    The money rec anglers pump into the economy leaves the pros for dead, even if only in the pro beach netters case. The very fact that I don't go camp at Teewah or Rainbow beach, spending hundreds of dollars, if this is times out by hundreds of other rec fisho's who do the same, this is a heap of money the local economy, and the gummnut is missing out on.

    I have no problem with line commercial fishing (as in fishing for fish) as it discriminates (had an interesting conversation with a pro snapper/reef fisho here on the Coast once about the effect of long liners had on his business). But some commercial practices like netting need better methods and more monitoring. I've seen the beach raped by pro netters, many, many times. I've also seen dead fish strewn along the Sunny Coast beaches from what I suspect is prawn trawlers (it made the Sunshine Coast Daily for those who think I'm BS-ing). Maybe if there were less office based Public Servants, and more field officers we'd have a better fishery. In the case highlighted in this thread - yes try the gov't and see how you go, but given my experience of dobbing in people doing the wrong thing to DPI, I'd send a few photo's off to the Sunshine Coast Daily and the Fraser Times with a blurb about what you saw and your contact details. Embarrasment tends to motivate both pollies and public "servants".
    You may not get all that much sympathy though - as what the pros did in the lagoon is legal - which is a shame as my bet is the mullet were there to mull around and make little mullet's. For those on the thread who say "be carefull in what you wish for - re yellow zones" ; maybe DPI need to look at some "mullet breeding habitats" only along the beach, not nesscessarily a Yellow Zone as such - which some sicko can turn Green locking out all and sundry. Just declare some parts of the beach, or some beach formations (eg lagoons) as net free zones. The lagoons come and go, but mullet and sand crabs love them, as do the bream - and once the nets go through there is nothing. Such lagoons are breeding areas. Rec Fishos can discriminate re undersized fish, nets can't and so should not be allowed in such areas until such time that they can.

    Oh and get this - on the Island where I once lived, if you were (identified) 'Aboriginal', you were legally allowed to jag mullet using an Alvey Reel, Wilston rod, Japanese line, and a 9/0 Mustard Treble. Heck, you could even use a Quintrix Tinny and Mariner outboard to "traditionally" hunt Dugong and Turtle. As a white fella I was not allowed to jag. Apparently Alvey, Wilston, Japanese Line, Mustard hooks, Quintrix and Mariner are "traditional" fishing implements for indigenous fishing, and jagging (which is illegal) was also seen as 'traditional' - go figure.

  5. #95

    Re: Double Island Lagoon netted and cleaned-out by the pro's!!!How can this be allowe

    I posted earlier on all the the surrounding area which is already basically Recreational fishing havens either closed due to yellow zones or closed under the fisheries act. No one seems to want to acknowledge that these even exist. There is closed area in the way of marine parks and under fisheries regulation along the entire Queensland coast.

    Fact is Queensland has some of the most regulated waters in the world. Every bit of yellow zone and and and list of areas which is in the fisheries act has been made to ensure that recreational fishers have a choice to designated areas that are not professionally fished. Yet there are many who still believe that there is no place for professional fishing because it doesn’t suit them or benefit them. There are far more people who eat fish than go fishing and these people have as much right as anyone to have access to this resource.

    All the talk on professional is rape and pillage and so forth. Yet when 750,000 thousand anglers are harvesting as large quantities of fish as a group it is called something else. You imagine if every recreational fisher killed just one undersized fish due to a fouled hook (and we've all done it) once a year and this is not being unrealistic. Put all the fish in a pile and see what a mess there would be. I think as recreational fishers we are very naive to what effect we can have as a 750000 thousand person strong group.
    Managing fisheries is not about shutting one group down to suit another, it’s about ensuring everyone is getting their fair share. And going on the recent Fisheries Inshore Fin Fish Report its appears that as recreational fishers we are getting our slice of the pie.

    The beach netters are on the beach for around 25%of year, yet they are driving away all the dollars associated with rec fish. I would say generally that people that willing to spend money on fishing are already doing so, people aren't just going to suddenly open there wallets because beach netting in banned.











    Why aren't

    For all the work that Slider and the likes put into trying to close an area for their own benefit it would be good to see them try to work

  6. #96

    Re: Double Island Lagoon netted and cleaned-out by the pro's!!!How can this be allowe

    to a solution that managers fisheries for all stakeholders, not just recs. I would like to hear just one that doent involve shutting out one group just ot benefit another. thats not management.

  7. #97

    Re: Double Island Lagoon netted and cleaned-out by the pro's!!!How can this be allowe

    I guess if nets weren't such a big problem then we wouldn't bother trying to shut them down.

    Yes, I agree - recreational anglers are entitled to a fair share and this is part of the argument. The other part is that the inshore fish species seem to be disappearing but it seems to be the opposite where nets are banned and we're all starting to twig.

    Some of the most regulated waters in the world seem to be failing us and we'd like to see improvements made for the benefit of all - rec, pro, society in general.

    Sorry Bg, I missed or ignored your earlier post on the surrounding rfhs - where exactly are they? The K1 to K8 fishery doesn't really leave out any bit of coastline as far as I can tell.

    But you are right, I'm a selfish bastard. I do want to catch fish again and I should feel empathy for the poor old pro's who have slowly but surely devastated the inshore fishing along the beach where I've grown up and fished for 40 years. Where once everybody could come and get a feed and feel good about life for a while, but now go home frustrated and poorer for the experience.
    My 'own benefit' also happens to coincide with the benefit's of our entire population other than a few commercial fishers who stand to be well paid for their licences and who are hoping this will occur. I surely am a selfish prick.

    Did you mean to include the last couple of lines in post #95? I'm hoping there's an unfinished sentence there or have you been watching me?

  8. #98

    Re: Double Island Lagoon netted and cleaned-out by the pro's!!!How can this be allowe

    whales..I reckon they are spooking the fish. Far too many of the big buggers..the fish have to be spooked by them. They scream to spook the fish.

  9. #99

    Re: Double Island Lagoon netted and cleaned-out by the pro's!!!How can this be allowe

    I have always been anti-whaling but I reckon you might be onto something there PH!

    I've always thought that inshore fisheries should be protected from Most forms of commercial fishing as that is generally the only areas that rec fisho's have access to, commercial fishing should predominantly be offshore. Yes I understand that this would change the structure of the industry and have an impact on existing inshore commercial fishers but change is never easy.

  10. #100

    Re: Double Island Lagoon netted and cleaned-out by the pro's!!!How can this be allowe

    Slider talks about the fish vocalisation..whales scream at the fish to scare the crap out of them..the fish ball up and bingo..whale smorgasbord.

  11. #101

    Re: Double Island Lagoon netted and cleaned-out by the pro's!!!How can this be allowe

    Bad typing skills on those last two lines.

    Just took this from the latest Inshore Fin Fish Report from the DPI website.

    The ECIFFF commercial sector contributes the majority of the
    total harvest of mullet, small mackerels and shark on the
    Queensland east coast. The recreational harvest is likely to
    substantially exceed the commercial harvest of a number of
    species: notably sand, northern, goldenline and trumpeter
    whiting, tailor, bream, flathead and trevally.
    Yes, I agree - recreational anglers are entitled to a fair share and this is part of the argument. The other part is that the inshore fish species seem to be disappearing but it seems to be the opposite where nets are banned and we're all starting to twig.
    Lindsay have you read the latest Inshore Finfish Report. It states that recreational fishers as a whole are taking SUBSTANTIALLY more fish than professional operators.
    That is recreational fishers as a whole group are taking more TAILOR from the stock than commercial fishers yet it is the commercial guys who are to blame for the entire lack of fish.
    Where is the common sense in this.....
    What amazes me is that no one is even willing to consider that the recreational fishers as a whole may be having a bigger impact on some inshore fisheries than professional fishers. But are happy to blame professional fishers when they cannot catch enough.
    My 'own benefit' also happens to coincide with the benefit's of our entire population.
    Pretty sure the entire population don’t fish. I can’t see how closing an area down will benefit our entire population. Than are far more people who eat fish than go fishing and once again as Australians they are just as entitled to have access to this resource as anyone else.
    Linsday you are happy to ignore my posts because I disagree with you?
    Sorry Bg, I missed or ignored your earlier post on the surrounding rfhs - where exactly are they? The K1 to K8 fishery doesn't really leave out any bit of coastline as far as I can tell.
    Any yellow zone on marine parks map is basically an rfh. Zoned so that they can be recreationally fished but not professionally net fished.

    Let’s look at all the closed area for Recreational fishers that cannot be netted.
    There’s approximately 100 kilometres of beach on Fraser Island which cannot be netted. I’m pretty sure this was left yellow as to please recreational fishers. How is a yellow zone not a RFH?
    To put simply rec fishers have the opportunity to access an area as long as the drive from Noosa to Brisbane that cannot be commercially fished.
    Lets list some others:
    1.Double Island Point headland (yellow zone)
    2. An area of beach between double island point and rainbow beach (yellow zone)
    3. 4. Noosa river mouth south to coolum
    5. Harpers Street Boat ramp to the noosa river mouth (fisheries regulation)
    6. Lake Weyba
    7. From about eudlo creek to the mouth of maroochy river (fisheries regulation)
    8. Mooloolah river (fisheries regulation)
    9. Curramundi Lake
    10. The Pumicestine Passage



  12. #102

    Re: Double Island Lagoon netted and cleaned-out by the pro's!!!How can this be allowe

    Nobody is denying that recs take more than pros in some species and tailor is a classic example. However, I repeat, whenever nets are banned in an area and recs allowed to continue fishing - such as Lake Macquarie or Tuross Lake where the evidence is conclusive, the fish (including tailor) come back in greater numbers and are bigger. So if recs are doing the damage as you say, how can that be? There are anecdotal examples all over the world of this situation - Sydney Hbr is one example that we would all be aware of.

    It may seem illogical from a purely mathematical pov, but we are dealing with animals that behave in ways that are peculiar to them and their reaction to nets is such that it causes poor recruitment and area avoidance. They don't react in the same way to rec fishing for some reason - it could be the taking of tens of tonnes at a time by nets that freaks them out - at a guess. Irrespective, the proof is in the pudding of fish returning on the banning of nets.

    If I thought recs were causing fish to disappear from our surf gutters, then I would be campaigning for a lesser rec impact. But they're not and the evidence supports this.

    The rfhs you talk about bg are of little benefit to inshore surf species. The areas are either not relevant to inshore surf species or are so small as to not be of any tangible benefit. We have to get our heads around the fact that netting either side of Double Island Point for instance, means that the fish are spooked away from D.I. anyway. Same for Noosa Heads to Coolum - with the beaches from Tweed to Coolum being netted, fish migrating north such as tailor, are simply going to stay wide until they get to Fraser where there is a suitably sized area for them to recognise as being safe - maybe - or they just stay wide. That is why we need long stretches of coastline to encourage the fish to feed and breed where they have for millions of years and is where it works. An area like Noosa River mouth to Sandy Cape which is prime tailor spawning country. The more sedentary species such as bream, tarwhine, whiting etc will benefit at the same time. Patches of no netting is pointless.

    The point, more than anything else is, that the fish are still disappearing despite the net free regions you mention and nets would appear to be most responsible. We therefore need to reduce the impact on these species by nets. We could go the marine park methodology and ban all fishing, but why would we go down that path when it is unecessary and costly to Australian's pockets and way of life. I have already called for reduced rec bag limits and increased size limits for tailor in particular to assist recovery.

    I paid little attention or largely ignored your previous post bg because I don't believe it was pertinent. Whether you didn't mean to add the last couple of lines or not, you are attacking me personally and I will respond in kind - whether you agree or disagree with my theories is irrelevent. Why don't you find holes in my theories which is what I really want to happen - or at least try. Not just throw the personal gain card around and try to taint in that manner.

  13. #103

    Re: Double Island Lagoon netted and cleaned-out by the pro's!!!How can this be allowe

    The simple fact of the matter BG100 is that a single net shot can remove TONS of fish at a time regardless of the species and removes also every last skerrick of reproductive potential of those fish, WHEN THEY ARE AGGREGATED FOR SPAWNING. If you put line fishermen shoulder to shoulder the length of teewah beach they would not be able to remove every skerrick of breeding potential from a spawning aggregation.
    And therein lies the problem. NETS DESTROY SPAWNING AGGREGATIONS.
    NO SPAWNING = NO FISH

  14. #104

    Re: Double Island Lagoon netted and cleaned-out by the pro's!!!How can this be allowe

    I'm with you Slider..shut it down and..and people froim driving up the beach..unless they have their own toilet. last time i went up there (many years back)...too much human faeces in the dunes for my likings. Absolute pigs. IMO I would ban people camping or visiting there unless they have their own toilets. Fine them $1000 if they don't have them.

  15. #105

    Re: Double Island Lagoon netted and cleaned-out by the pro's!!!How can this be allowe

    Not sure about the other areas but I live near Currimundi lake and the pro's net right beside the mouth of the lake and the impact is huge on the mullet population. I don't know if its the same situation elsewhere but allowing the pro's to net so close to a restricted area such as the lake seems a bit stupid.

    Quote Originally Posted by bg1000 View Post
    Bad typing skills on those last two lines.

    Just took this from the latest Inshore Fin Fish Report from the DPI website.

    The ECIFFF commercial sector contributes the majority of the
    total harvest of mullet, small mackerels and shark on the
    Queensland east coast. The recreational harvest is likely to
    substantially exceed the commercial harvest of a number of
    species: notably sand, northern, goldenline and trumpeter
    whiting, tailor, bream, flathead and trevally.
    Yes, I agree - recreational anglers are entitled to a fair share and this is part of the argument. The other part is that the inshore fish species seem to be disappearing but it seems to be the opposite where nets are banned and we're all starting to twig.
    Lindsay have you read the latest Inshore Finfish Report. It states that recreational fishers as a whole are taking SUBSTANTIALLY more fish than professional operators.
    That is recreational fishers as a whole group are taking more TAILOR from the stock than commercial fishers yet it is the commercial guys who are to blame for the entire lack of fish.
    Where is the common sense in this.....
    What amazes me is that no one is even willing to consider that the recreational fishers as a whole may be having a bigger impact on some inshore fisheries than professional fishers. But are happy to blame professional fishers when they cannot catch enough.
    My 'own benefit' also happens to coincide with the benefit's of our entire population.
    Pretty sure the entire population don’t fish. I can’t see how closing an area down will benefit our entire population. Than are far more people who eat fish than go fishing and once again as Australians they are just as entitled to have access to this resource as anyone else.
    Linsday you are happy to ignore my posts because I disagree with you?
    Sorry Bg, I missed or ignored your earlier post on the surrounding rfhs - where exactly are they? The K1 to K8 fishery doesn't really leave out any bit of coastline as far as I can tell.
    Any yellow zone on marine parks map is basically an rfh. Zoned so that they can be recreationally fished but not professionally net fished.

    Let’s look at all the closed area for Recreational fishers that cannot be netted.
    There’s approximately 100 kilometres of beach on Fraser Island which cannot be netted. I’m pretty sure this was left yellow as to please recreational fishers. How is a yellow zone not a RFH?
    To put simply rec fishers have the opportunity to access an area as long as the drive from Noosa to Brisbane that cannot be commercially fished.
    Lets list some others:
    1.Double Island Point headland (yellow zone)
    2. An area of beach between double island point and rainbow beach (yellow zone)
    3. 4. Noosa river mouth south to coolum
    5. Harpers Street Boat ramp to the noosa river mouth (fisheries regulation)
    6. Lake Weyba
    7. From about eudlo creek to the mouth of maroochy river (fisheries regulation)
    8. Mooloolah river (fisheries regulation)
    9. Curramundi Lake
    10. The Pumicestine Passage


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