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Thread: Will Toyota's Landcruiser ever have a true rival?

  1. #1

    Will Toyota's Landcruiser ever have a true rival?

    I got to thinking today, with the death of the Nissan Patrol's 4.2TD there really hasn't been much out there that can really compete with the Toyota Landcruiser for a good quality 4x4 Wagon that has a decent towing capacity..... and is affordable.

    Not that the Cruiser is really affordable. I really can't fathom the prices Cruiser owners are asking for thier 10 year old 300,000km plus cars. Don't get me wrong I love the Cruisers and would love to have one for a tow vehicle but can't bring myself to justify the outlay in a second hand car.

    Is there or will there be anything that can push Toyota in this department? Will there be another 4x4 that is big enough to tow a 3t boat comfortably, be nice to drive, look good, have a few creature comforts all with out costing 80k?

    Maybe im just a tight arse and looking at 80k for a new cruiser is just out of reach for me and 50k for a decent second hand one seems unreasonable.

    Would Nissan bringing back a re-engineered 4.2TD that meets the current standards at around the 55k mark steal a big market share from Toyota?
    I'm guessing at that the answer is one of two things...... 1- The 3.0TD is selling well enough to those that don't need to tow the larger loads regularly (and havent heard about the dead engines) or 2- they are still are spending a long time inventing the larger engine.

    Your thoughts......

    Cheers

    Chris

    P.S. Im talking about the TD's only.
    Democracy: Simply a system that allows the 51% to steal from the other 49%.

  2. #2

    Re: Will Toyota's Landcruiser ever have a true rival?

    The other side of that is if you buy now for 80 grand, you'll sell it in 4 for 50 grand. Not that bad, really.

    Discos are capable, but the depreciation's significantly higher, is it not? I don't really know.

    I bought the Cruiser. As if you wouldn't. Just harden up Lovey, you know you want to!



    Cheers,

    Tim
    Carbon Really Ain't Pollution.

  3. #3

    Re: Will Toyota's Landcruiser ever have a true rival?

    I did here a rumor that Nissan is having a new motor out soon.
    I have owned toyotas for many years including the latest V8T/D, Took the new Landrover for a test run, and i can say Toyota will be in the POO, but like any other forum you will get the wombats that will say the landrover is crap even thou they have never been in one.....maybe i was one of them, and dont think for once that you have better resale with a Toyota,what a load of crap. I should know

  4. #4

    Re: Will Toyota's Landcruiser ever have a true rival?

    Quote Originally Posted by jake0 View Post
    I did here a rumor that Nissan is having a new motor out soon.
    I have owned toyotas for many years including the latest V8T/D, Took the new Landrover for a test run, and i can say Toyota will be in the POO, but like any other forum you will get the wombats that will say the landrover is crap even thou they have never been in one.....maybe i was one of them, and dont think for once that you have better resale with a Toyota,what a load of crap. I should know
    Im not knocking landrover here or any other car. But even if the new landrover is the greatest car ever made, by reputation and buyer perception I cant see Toyota getting knocked off its pedestal.

    Toyota 4x4's are ingrained in our society and it'll be almost impossible to change that idea in a short period of time. Only company that can do that would be nissan.

    Having said that though,
    If a company brings out a 6 cylinder turbo diesel live axle ute with a 3-3.5tonne tow capacity I think will do extremely well.
    The new v8 cruiser is a put off for alot of owners and thats reflected by the price of the older 4.2 TD.

    Me personally 4x4 companies have got it wrong. They have away why people by a 4x4 in the first place.
    Classic example is the move away from live axle's, electronic this, electronic that.
    IMO the older 4.2 cruiser and patrol are far better offroad cars than anything built today.

  5. #5

    Re: Will Toyota's Landcruiser ever have a true rival?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flex View Post
    Im not knocking landrover here or any other car. But even if the new landrover is the greatest car ever made, by reputation and buyer perception I cant see Toyota getting knocked off its pedestal.

    Toyota 4x4's are ingrained in our society and it'll be almost impossible to change that idea in a short period of time. Only company that can do that would be nissan.

    You are right on all counts in my book.

    I love my live axle Disco 2 and I have mates who love their GQ's for the same reason...there are still a decent following out there for live axles. Everyone has forgotten for the wagons at least (not counting Defender etc). You CANNOT beat live axle off road for sheer ruggedness, fixability, and clearance combined. Cruiser is an eg of that - the 100 series is raked down at the front and its lower arms for that IFS cause it problems that the 80 series never had - from sand to stumps they get caught out which is a shame cause the 100 series is a nicely sorted truck otherwise.
    Boat: Seafarer Vagabond
    Live: Great South East....love Moreton Bay fishing

  6. #6

    Re: Will Toyota's Landcruiser ever have a true rival?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flex View Post
    Im not knocking landrover here or any other car. But even if the new landrover is the greatest car ever made, by reputation and buyer perception I cant see Toyota getting knocked off its pedestal.

    Toyota 4x4's are ingrained in our society and it'll be almost impossible to change that idea in a short period of time. Only company that can do that would be nissan.
    That's what they said about Chrysler and Chev and Austin etc in the 30's and 40's and early 50's and then Holden and Ford in the 60's and 70's.
    Trends come and go.
    I think Toyota's period of been king poo is just about over due to price premiums placed on their vehicles and troubles in their cars.
    Landrover is a competitor but other makers do and will be bringing out new models to compete with Toyota.
    The Koreans are making a good vehicle now and should not be discarded in their future success neither can the Chinese.

    I can remember when Toyota was that new mob trying hard to break into the Australian market many years ago.
    People were all saying they'll never make it. All they are are remade Austins and Mercedes motors etc etc etc.
    We have a few early 60's Datsuns. They are simply put remade Austins....

    We were looking for another second handy a while ago and whilst we looked at Toyota the price difference was significant and looking at the individual vehicles I could not justify the price difference.
    We finally went Mitsubishi and could not be happier and I'm sure if we had of spent twice as much for a Toyota equivalent we would not have been any happier. We would have just been twice as poor.
    I intend on living for-ever....so far so good


  7. #7

    Re: Will Toyota's Landcruiser ever have a true rival?

    Quote Originally Posted by TimiBoy View Post
    The other side of that is if you buy now for 80 grand, you'll sell it in 4 for 50 grand. Not that bad, really.

    Discos are capable, but the depreciation's significantly higher, is it not? I don't really know.

    I bought the Cruiser. As if you wouldn't. Just harden up Lovey, you know you want to!



    Cheers,

    Tim

    Thanks for reassuring me I'll only lose 30k over 4 years .

    I'm guessing ill end up having to harden up but it's not so easy to do on top of 120k of boat when your sitting where I am...... I also can't write it off on tax either.

    The only Disco I would consider is the new 3.0 TDV6 SE and it sits at 82k also. Im still not convinced that towing 3.5t with a 3.0L engine is all that wise either I know the twin turbo helps and 600nm of torque looks good but would you buy a car that was a 3.0l that you new had been towing 3.5t regularly for 100,000km's? Look at the trouble the 3.0l nissans had.....not sure that has anything to do with towing but it's on my mind.

    Is the 3.0l tt Disco a real competitor to the V8tt Cruiser?

    cheers

    chris
    Democracy: Simply a system that allows the 51% to steal from the other 49%.

  8. #8

    Re: Will Toyota's Landcruiser ever have a true rival?

    The 3.0 TTD is a beast. That engine is a LONG LONG way from being compared to the small nissan TD that had so many issues. The 2.7 has proven itself as a long miles engine and the 3.0 will also...its a V6 not a little 4 like the nissan was and 3.0 is hardly small in a twin turbo diesel. It wouldnt know 3.5 tonn was behind it with 550 nm of torque AT idle and power and torque to burn - the 2.7 single diesel was a tow beast - just read the tow tests on it where it whipped the cruiser V8 petrol and nissan big 6 petrol towing. I know people who have regularly towed heavy with the 2.7 and loved it. Off road the Disco 3 is king - not a simple beast by any means, but king of ability at least, no question at all.

    As for ride comfort, handling and sheer niceness you cannot go past a rover.

    Cheers
    Boat: Seafarer Vagabond
    Live: Great South East....love Moreton Bay fishing

  9. #9

    Re: Will Toyota's Landcruiser ever have a true rival?

    If you are only looking at a 4WD as a tow vehicle for a boat, why bother. Far cheaper to leave the boat in rack storage somewhere and have a much cheaper car. Boat is undercover and no need for 80k tow vehicle.

  10. #10

    Re: Will Toyota's Landcruiser ever have a true rival?

    Toyota was pretty smart, they design in the same year different vehiccles but sticker them both landcruisers, one tough you can take camping anywhere in OZ for a week and one that hits the tar roads like a warrior. Either one can draw from the other in the minds of prospective owners.

    I will never own one...actually I am not totally closed on the solid axle models but overall the value is not there IMO without some form of taxation kickback, also in 5 years the virtual money speculators will be in full swing again, this time around just watch the value of big vehicles plummet.

    If the patrol keeps to it's time honoured build design but gets a decent diesel engine it will be a contender for all work dutys but will pale as the family school bus in comparison to the IFS cruiser.

    cheers fnq



  11. #11

    Re: Will Toyota's Landcruiser ever have a true rival?

    also in 5 years the virtual money speculators will be in full swing again, this time around just watch the value of big vehicles plummet.

    FNQ, could you please elaborate on that in simple terms?

    Cheers
    Democracy: Simply a system that allows the 51% to steal from the other 49%.

  12. #12

    Re: Will Toyota's Landcruiser ever have a true rival?

    Sorry, the price of fuel specificly but it also applies to everything traded world wide and needed for a 1st world consumers quality of life.

    cheers fnq



  13. #13

    Re: Will Toyota's Landcruiser ever have a true rival?

    In my view all full size 4wds are getting insanely expensive. They do cover many bases as a vehicle but it is crazy - particularly if not leased. Any the costs of things out of warranty is also mad.

    Pinhead - what you say about a rack makes some sense, although it adds up over say 10 years, but you become very restricted as to where you can go compared to a trailer boat and the extra fuel costs of running the boat just to get to an area where you would have launched from with a trailer boat is to be taken into account (eg Rudy Mars to Mud Island compared to launching at Wynnum and taking the short run to Mud...)

    Cheers
    Boat: Seafarer Vagabond
    Live: Great South East....love Moreton Bay fishing

  14. #14

    Re: Will Toyota's Landcruiser ever have a true rival?

    A new Nissan Wagon is in the making, looks like a 200 series Landcruiser but who knows about price!!

    Scott,
    I can assure you from owning a 200TTD it will eat the Disco towing my 2.5 boat in any hill.
    Resale ?? well I don't know what it will be in say 8 years time when the new (300 series??) is released but going on past experience it will eat the Disco as well by a long shot .
    Beat this , I sold my old 100 series TD for $39.5 k in 2008 , bought new in 2000 for $65K, how much is a 2000 model TD Disco worth ???

  15. #15

    Re: Will Toyota's Landcruiser ever have a true rival?

    Scott..I was referringto Lovey's comment: "Thanks for reassuring me I'll only lose 30k over 4 years "

    I think a rack is under 3k per annum...that is 12 k over the 4 years...sure would be using the boat a lot make up the shortfall on the 30k in fuel usage.

    It does tend to restrict a little in places you go..been there and done that but that boat could not be towed anyway...on water berth for a 35' berth was 5.5k back then..I doubt they would be any cheaper now.

    I bought the last boat based on having the Hi Lux and staying within its towing capacities..cannot see any value in a bigger 4WD just for towing even though I could have bought one through the business..but still a waste.

    When the vast majority of people use their boat a lot less than 100 hours per annum it can soon amount up to a very expensive package to be travelling on the roads with.

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