Barra Basics – Pop Quiz

[gaz066]

Seems to me the 'attention to detail' is all important, whether it's location choice , lure selection or retrieval technique or the 'things' that are happening around you at the time.

I guess it's easy ( I'm definately guilty) to overlook these little things on a big expanse of water in the big outdoors when your thinking about the next cast !

A small change in one of the triggers makes the difference, I guess the trick is picking the change , experience and being 'in tune' or switched on helps.

Parksy

[gaz066]

This is a great thread mate and something that we don't seem to see much on this site these days. You are obviously quite a thinking angler. I will have a go at answering the above.

All my experience in terms of bite "windows" have occurred during changes in wind. The first instance that I can remember was with Lyndon at Awoonga just before the ABT last year. The current was hitting a point and creating a dirty water line. You could see it extend out over 50meters. When this dirty water line reached its crescendo, the fish started to bite. As soon as the current decreased and the dirty water line receded the bite stopped.

Another experience I can recall was during a recent stint at Kinchant dam. The fish went ballistic for a 30 minute period right on dusk one afternoon. Obviously when the fishing is that good you finish work early the next day so that you there and ready to fish the next afternoon. This time the bite occurred 30 mins after dusk. In fact I had nearly gone home. I headed out again the following afternoon and this time it was right on dusk again. Obviously the bite occurred near on dusk however the fish "stopped" biting as soon as the water turned to glass. The bite lasted as the wind was dropping.

These are two instances which I can recall a distinct bite window occurring and these both relate to wind/current changes. I will be interested to hear some of the more experienced anglers opinions. Hopefully the knowledge doesn't get drowned out.

Scott

Scott, (Potato Man)
You are on the right path with the right info. *More on that later if others are keen to discuss.
Each lake has multiple fishing environments within, so 'bite windows' occur for differing reasons at each. There are quite a few combinations of variables required to make each spot work and an individual trigger to kick start it, and the bite window can often be picked right down to less than 15-30 seconds as to when a barra will strike. Wind movement, temp change, current intensity and light intensity are some of the key triggers.
Johnny

JM, I am keen to discuss further 'bite windows' if your willing to share.

My learned friends,

Most agree dusk and dawn are a regular starting point. We get a short window when the current / tide changes, the wind changes and perhaps a longer one when the temp or barometer varies as it may not be as sudden a change.

Is it reasonable then to think the simple change what ever it is is the trigger?
We can obviously target tide and time but the other events are not as predictable. So to be in just the right spot when things do change unless you are the Croc who can sit there waiting or maybe Johnny M. (lucky B) you really , need a crystal ball or the time to wait there. Obviously a bit of 'done your homework' and experience increases your chances of being in the right spot at the right time if the change can be foreseen.

So the best us mere mortals can do is target time and tide, observe and be conscious of the other conditions to take advantage of them if we are on the water when they happen. Knowing your environment is obviously an advantage so as to be in the right spot or move to it when the wind changes if you have time.

In short those of us who are not the croc or JM i.e. living on the dam should target time, tide and location and then react to any change as it happens. The trick then being aware of the change and how to react.
Bearing in mind technique is something we have control over and can change accordingly.
So it it just any change, and that triggers the fish? i.e. sparks them up maybe? what ever the change is, light, current, temp etc. passing ski boat?
and you have to be there and doing the right thing at the time?

So if I have a particular window of opportunity to fish eg. 3 days at the dam.

The known factors:

1. Target dusk and dawn, we know when they are
2. Landscape / location it is reasonably steady over two or three days
3. Consideration for the wind direction
4. Water temp
5. Depth

Then hope there is a change in condition to stimulate a bite.
while we are there

Something we have no control over

• So employ what you do know,
• be in the most likely spot
• be ready
• and hope for the best.

P.S. how good is this thread, finally something positive and constructive


you've all done well.

Daryl, I agree with your comment, ‘The trick then being aware of the change and how to react’ . If we can recognise the factors (personally still learning) that make up the ideal scenario, it will help us make that decision to stop and cast, keep casting at at our current location or………..cut our losses move to another location. All these things are in our control just like technique.

I also agree us ‘mere mortals’ that only hit the dam for a few days here and there have a bigger challenge but……..there’s no reason why we cannot maximise our changes of tangling with Mr Barra by selecting the right areas to fish the right way .


The right way?
We have fleshed out what most agree (that have responded anyway) is the right way. Balanced tackle, reasonable lure selection and a good technique for that chosen lure fished with precise confidence.

The right Areas?
There has been discussion around the right area being more than just the physical location or topography, it covers such things as

Wind (direction and intensity)
Geographic layout of the area affecting water movement
Current
Water clarity
Cloud cover
Water temp
Baro
Moon
Bait activity

I guess my ( and maybe others ) question is when it comes to the right areas do you

1- try to get all the factors just right before casting
2- Run and gun ….a few casts in each likely looking spot to ‘test the water’
3- settle for a few ideal factors and fish that location hoping the rest fall into place (a method I am familiar with)
4- Fish a known spot and keep casting till all the factors come together or…..dusk arrives ( also a method I am familiar with)

There’s no doubt dusk is the time when I feel the most confident but…..having the ability to pick other windows throughout the day and fish them with confidence would be very handy skill to develop. Should options 1 or 2 be explored further ?

If others have a different opinion please feel free to share , I guess I am trying to tease out the detail in this thread rather than dance around it

Parksy

[Big_Ren]

Bump.....


This is such an informative thread Parksy. It took me a while at this time of year to catch up with all the addendums to the debate but I am there now. Wow, some really educational material is coming out.

The recent focus has put “bite windows” under the microscope, so in the spirit of keeping to the same song sheet, I’ll add a little bit more fodder – some may be repetitive so apologies in advance.

In relation to the potential windows at dawn and dusk, are we not severely limiting the opportunities we have to catch fish?? Are we putting all our chips on “red” in the hope that the one factor of a change in light intensity will be the catalyst for a bite period because of a predator’s superior eyesight adjustment alone?

And during this period, are we also banking on the fact that many of us will have tied off to a tree or laid our anchor down, confident that we will come across fish that are active or cruising?

Are we curtailing our opportunities by fishing these times because we know barra will be more mobile or is it because it is a more comfortable time for us to fish as well?

I am the first to throw my hands in the air and say yes to much of the above.

In doing so, am I denying myself the opportunity to convince a barramundi to bite my lure at times other than dawn/dusk and the dark hours? Yes…most certainly…that is obvious.

Are many of us fishing these hours as part of a strategy not to “flog” ourselves in the heat of the day? Yes…probably true as well.

So, in saying all this, it would be fair to assume that many of our barra brethren are indeed fishing with one hand tied behind our backs and limiting the limited opportunities we already have (on short trips) to catch fish.

Taking this further, we need to identify other factors, apart from time of day, and these other factors have been covered off previously, that will allow us to tempt a willing adversary into biting our offerings 24/7.

From our own catch records, we know that impoundment barra do not eat in the same locations, at the same times, or even on the same days.

They may be in varying stages of digestion/rest or travel….and therefore be in varying stages of willingness to inhale a lure.

What do we do then to maximise the opportunities available to us?

If we only fish at so called peak bite times because it falls within our comfort zones, then isn’t it fair to assume that our “windows” are nothing more than being akin to prison cells i.e. with few windows, as opposed to opportunities that are more like big office blocks with plenty of windows??

I am sure we accept that barra can hunt during all parts of the day or night, in water conditions that are clean to the eye, or filthy.

To me, it gets down to the quality of those water conditions…..something that is not dictated by the time of day but rather by fluctuations in temperature, flow and wind speed and direction.

Sorry for rambling.

Cheers
Paul

[Dick Pasfield]

More on activity periods, specific to two of my locations. One is situated above a series of rapids, the other directly below. The rapids themselves are another site again. Note these locations are probably not what you’d find in your dams so consider them as examples only.

Location 1 (above): Is a staging point for aggregations of pre spawning fish from Sept to Nov as they move downstream. At this time they’re under a bit of pressure, mainly from shore anglers of a daytime. I’ve never seen an activity cycle here during the day, dusk at the earliest, but mostly an hour or more after full dark. Or, often to be more specific an hour after I arrive. The dead period could be a response to my arrival and set up. Once started the 40 – 60 minutes of activity cycle through the night up to three times until an hour before dawn. The activity becomes more pronounced and the feeding more frenetic building slowly in lunar cycles until the full moon in November. From then on the fish stop coming and are gone by the new moon, except for a few stragglers caught in December/January.

They kick again in elevated flood levels about February, not to travel but more to feed above and in the fast water of the rapids. The fishing pressure is reduced due to lack of wet season vehicle access. The activity periods overlap more into daytime and on to dawn. This cycle continues until about April when the fish gradually disperse over a waning moon as river levels fall back to normal until Sept again.

Location ‘B’ below: Picks up fish as they move downstream. They appear about a month after fish start bleeding down from Location ‘A’. The site gets very little pressure being not all that obvious to anglers. Nov/Jan, if fish are present there’s a distinct activity period just on dusk that lasts about 40 to 60 minutes. A fullish moon will provide the opportunity for one or two more periods later into the night. As soon as the wet season kicks in and the river floods the fish disappear overnight. In the early part of the dry activity periods appear just after sunrise shutting off as the season wears on into July, not sure what triggers the morning activity then. July on to September one small window of about 20 minutes appears pretty regularly late afternoon just as the air temp starts to drop.

Both locations produce good numbers of fish over the year but with very little overlap, demonstrating their connectivity. The timing of fish being in residence at these locations can be tracked back to major seasonal changes such as big shifts in water temp influenced by day length etc and water height and flow influenced by monsoon activity.

The day to day activity periods are influenced by things that change rapidly on a ‘day to day or ‘hour by hour’ basis. Water temperature influences timing and window length (cooler water = shorter periods and later in the day) but not bite aggression. The moon will encourage fish to remain active longer into the night but not necessarily to trigger a period of activity alone. Angling pressure such as boat noise, missed chances or captures will cause fish to pull stumps for a time. Merging fishing, your own sleep cycles overnight with fish activity periods works well, when the fish back off have a sleep for a couple of hours, chances are they’ll respond again later that night when you wake up. Hitting fish Friday night is a much better prospect than a Sunday afternoon all other things being equal. Rainfall can work both ways depending on how rapidly and if it cools the water temp. Wind on the water is nice; a small chop maintains some background noise you can get lost in.

The info above is quite accurate when seasonally adjusted, diary’s fault. I’ll still fish outside of these times on purpose as I pass by, all data is good data but regardless of hitting the location out of sync I’ll always try to be there on the spot when the timing is right. Admittedly this level of detail comes at a price, constant trips being one and limited fishing elsewhere another, that is until I win lotto and can give up my day job.

[NAGG]

Hey Paul

You've mentioned the peak bite period around sunset ..... which I know it would be rare for me not to be tied off & casting during this period - many of us love this period for many reasons. However do you notice that it is also the time when probably 90% of the boats leave & call it quits for the day - so maybe the message is not out there.

As for fishing during the day & catching fish ...... This is where local knowledge & a good understanding of various locations is golden - eg a day where prevailing conditions have been consistent & then the wind intensity increased significantly causing waves to break on the shore (bank composition / soil) - a heavy transition line forms These situations are often golden but are easily missed.

I know that I'm building up a memory bank of Mondy locations that are condition specific ....... It goes a long way in improving your catch rates

Chris

[robersl]

You've mentioned the peak bite period around sunset ..... which I know it would be rare for me not to be tied off & casting during this period - many of us love this period for many reasons. However do you notice that it is also the time when probably 90% of the boats leave & call it quits for the day - so maybe the message is not out there.

Hey Chris
I normally fish till just on dark one reason being i don't have a gps that works properly and like to get in so i don't hit any sticks or logs in the dark even with the spottie so i normally hang around bird or the basin on sunset also there is the risk of hitting one of those idiot trollers in the main basin with no nav lights or torch i have come close a few times i think that is why a lot of people go in at sunset

shane

[gaz066]

If we only fish at so called peak bite times because it falls within our comfort zones, then isn’t it fair to assume that our “windows” are nothing more than being akin to prison cells i.e. with few windows, as opposed to opportunities that are more like big office blocks with plenty of windows??

I am sure we accept that barra can hunt during all parts of the day or night, in water conditions that are clean to the eye, or filthy.

To me, it gets down to the quality of those water conditions…..something that is not dictated by the time of day but rather by fluctuations in temperature, flow and wind speed and direction.

Sorry for rambling.

Cheers
Paul

Ren , I agree we are definately limiting ourselves by just concentrating on the dusk period , sometimes that suits us due to our own sleep pattern or ( as you say ) a decsion not to flog ourselves when on the lake for several days.

The info above is quite accurate when seasonally adjusted, diary’s fault. I’ll still fish outside of these times on purpose as I pass by, all data is good data but regardless of hitting the location out of sync I’ll always try to be there on the spot when the timing is right. Admittedly this level of detail comes at a price, constant trips being one and limited fishing elsewhere another, that is until I win lotto and can give up my day job.

Wow Dick, you have certainly got a handle on your own locale , that's the level of detail that makes the difference and a level ( I'm guessing ) that very few impoundment anglers would have. No doubt plenty would like to have it but...it takes lots of trips to get there , I'm still building !

Hey Paul

As for fishing during the day & catching fish ...... This is where local knowledge & a good understanding of various locations is golden - eg a day where prevailing conditions have been consistent & then the wind intensity increased significantly causing waves to break on the shore (bank composition / soil) - a heavy transition line forms These situations are often golden but are easily missed.

I know that I'm building up a memory bank of Mondy locations that are condition specific ....... It goes a long way in improving your catch rates

Chris

Chris , this is the piece I'm stil working on , understanding the physical locations is one thing , understanding the variables that makes those physical locations fire up is the bigger piece IMHO

Hey Chris
I normally fish till just on dark one reason being i don't have a gps that works properly and like to get in so i don't hit any sticks or logs in the dark even with the spottie so i normally hang around bird or the basin on sunset also there is the risk of hitting one of those idiot trollers in the main basin with no nav lights or torch i have come close a few times i think that is why a lot of people go in at sunset

shane

Shane , no doubt your on the money , it's not uncommon to see lots of people heading back to the 'safety' of the main basin or close by to avoid the run home thru the sticks in the dark particularly at Mondy , put simply.......skippers choice.



So... to keep moving forward.

It appears we all agree that we are limiting ourselves by just fishing the dusk period , not earth shattering news for anyone. Seems we have a clearer 'picture' of what a 'bite window' might look like.

I guess the next choice is ...do we ( I ) commit to searching for those locations next time on the lake or ........do we ( I ) just go to a familiar location , with conditions 'near enough' and probably where fish have been caught before , tie off or anchor and start casting blindly ? Easy enough to do when you have been pumped up for the trip and keen to get lures in the water.


Parksy

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

You've mentioned the peak bite period around sunset ..... which I know it would be rare for me not to be tied off & casting during this period - many of us love this period for many reasons. However do you notice that it is also the time when probably 90% of the boats leave & call it quits for the day - so maybe the message is not out there.

Two out of three guides on Awoonga are usually off the water well before dusk- for good reason- another local who loves fishing night time also mentioned to me about the time period just prior to sun down that he struggles to find much barra action in comparison to better times. I could name 3 periods of the day that are better than twilight/afternoon/sundown. Big Ren's comment is pretty well on the money- "To me, it gets down to the quality of those water conditions…......something that is not dictated by the time of day but rather by fluctuations in temperature, flow and wind speed and direction."
Dusk may offer changing lighting conditions, but commonly it shares faster falling water temperatures; so we get two opposed variables working against, rather than with. This doesn't mean you won't catch barra, but it means there are better periods to try one's luck, but this also depends on what the wind is doing at this time, as the wind is the major removalist of water temp. There is extra info in this paragraph if one cares to find it.
Cheers,
Johnny

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

I still think anglers should cast all day or night, or all session; simply so they get to compare the periods of good and poor activity levels so they become familiar with changes that occur in and outside of the system.
Flog the water to foam and enjoy what you do, or, test and try new areas or techniques- do a little sacrifice- which may in turn just turn into a gold medal reward, but importantly, take bloody notes so you can compare day to day results whilst at home on the couch! Trends pop out if you look hard enough. It is the only way to learn the.................. ' trade',,,,,,,,,,,,looking for a better word!

[NAGG]

You've mentioned the peak bite period around sunset ..... which I know it would be rare for me not to be tied off & casting during this period - many of us love this period for many reasons. However do you notice that it is also the time when probably 90% of the boats leave & call it quits for the day - so maybe the message is not out there.

Hey Chris
I normally fish till just on dark one reason being i don't have a gps that works properly and like to get in so i don't hit any sticks or logs in the dark even with the spottie so i normally hang around bird or the basin on sunset also there is the risk of hitting one of those idiot trollers in the main basin with no nav lights or torch i have come close a few times i think that is why a lot of people go in at sunset

shane

Not just Mondy ..... but Faust , Teemburra & to a lesser extent Awoonga.
But even at a place like mondy ....... you have 20% of the dam that is fishable without the need of a GPS or even a big spotlight.

Chris

[NAGG]

You've mentioned the peak bite period around sunset ..... which I know it would be rare for me not to be tied off & casting during this period - many of us love this period for many reasons. However do you notice that it is also the time when probably 90% of the boats leave & call it quits for the day - so maybe the message is not out there.

Two out of three guides on Awoonga are usually off the water well before dusk- for good reason- another local who loves fishing night time also mentioned to me about the time period just prior to sun down that he struggles to find much barra action in comparison to better times. I could name 3 periods of the day that are better than twilight/afternoon/sundown. Big Ren's comment is pretty well on the money- "To me, it gets down to the quality of those water conditions…......something that is not dictated by the time of day but rather by fluctuations in temperature, flow and wind speed and direction."
Dusk may offer changing lighting conditions, but commonly it shares faster falling water temperatures; so we get two opposed variables working against, rather than with. This doesn't mean you won't catch barra, but it means there are better periods to try one's luck, but this also depends on what the wind is doing at this time, as the wind is the major removalist of water temp. There is extra info in this paragraph if one cares to find it.
Cheers,
Johnny

No doubt Johnny ..... as I am learning - I've certainly caught more barra in the middle of the day over the last 6 months than I had in the 18 months before that.

Quite often we notice a decrease in the wind velocity at Monduran around sunset - water temps usually stabilise .... we then have insect activity - then active bait ....... more often than not a definite bite period . (Its also a magic time to be on the water) -

Just my observations

Chris

[Steve B]

Hey Paul

You've mentioned the peak bite period around sunset ..... which I know it would be rare for me not to be tied off & casting during this period - many of us love this period for many reasons. However do you notice that it is also the time when probably 90% of the boats leave & call it quits for the day - so maybe the message is not out there.

As for fishing during the day & catching fish ...... This is where local knowledge & a good understanding of various locations is golden - eg a day where prevailing conditions have been consistent & then the wind intensity increased significantly causing waves to break on the shore (bank composition / soil) - a heavy transition line forms These situations are often golden but are easily missed.
e condition
I know that I'm building up a memory bank of Mondy locations that ar specific ....... It goes a long way in improving your catch rates

Chris

Chris, thats the way I start every session on the water. I have built a memory bank of areas that work in particular conditions...its not the be all and end all, but its a good starting point for a days fishing... Some of these areas have sub-areas that work better with different wind speeds etc within the area too. ie a favorite point in N arm, worked a treat on the leading edge with light NE or SE winds...but if it got over 15+knots, the back edge caught warmer water which bounced off a point over the other side of the bay, and colided with water blowing around the point..it was quite visable...and fish were concentrated in a 20 mtr strip of bank...especially after dark...just 1 example. I have also concentrated on fishing the opposite areas to 'what should hold fish' too. I found some of these areas produced fish (ie protected points not wind blown).....especially in cooler months leading in and out of winter.

But the point is, as you said, building a condition specific memory bank...last year I worked a bit on locating new areas 'condition specific' and found a few too. I should have utilised one earlier in day 2 abt, as I had a feeling it would be firing, but didnt get there soon enough to properly give it a nudge...spud still got a fish, but there were plenty more opportunities during that 'window' that we missed the majority of....lessons learnt.

just a couple of my basic observations.

GAZZA GREAT THREAD MATE!

Steve

[Dick Pasfield]

I still think anglers should cast all day or night, or all session; simply so they get to compare the periods of good and poor activity levels so they become familiar with changes that occur in and outside of the system.

Good advice Johnny (providing you don't need to sleep) since much of the day/night can be taken up by interludes it makes sense to fish them to some degree regularly. Anglers run on different time tables to fish and not always do they match.

So what do pepole do to sqeeze a fish out of these times?

Strategies that come to mind -
Make the fish have to make the choice, dangle something in front of it long enough and it might decide to bite it.

Have lunch

Play the percentages, cycle through all your proven tactics rather than clutch at straws.

[Big_Ren]

Hey Paul

You've mentioned the peak bite period around sunset ..... which I know it would be rare for me not to be tied off & casting during this period - many of us love this period for many reasons. However do you notice that it is also the time when probably 90% of the boats leave & call it quits for the day - so maybe the message is not out there.

Hey Chris

I think it is more the case that in a lake with so many hidden obstacles and twists and turns, that some people might not trust themselves to find their way back from up the system. That's certainly not the case with those trolling in the main basin after dark though.

Perhaps it is that a lot of anglers might also have families waiting back at camp for them, at a time when normal dinner bells ring. I remember that only as recently as 2006, Navi, Vinny and I would rarely fish past twilight. Mind you we were on the water all day, every day from pre-dawn.

Now our options have opened up around the clock.

Cheers
Paul

[Tropicaltrout]

Top read guys just filtering through it all wow centainly some great tip and hints for all of us....

Now just to get to get up there and fish.