A New Dam On The Mary???

[PinHead]

There are numerous town planning / economic incentive / disincentive options ++ for controlling growth in an area if the political will is there.

People are 'told where to live' all the time in terms of where and how land is released and government infrastructure established (or not established) to support it. Even in free market economies if the broader population decides there are good reasons to do it - that is called democracy (BTW P**S off with your reference to communes if you are just trying to make me out to just be some lefty commo)

I would ask you how you intend to 'manage it' once the population density of SE Qld is past satuartion and the density of the constructed landscape has left no space for healthy natural ecosystems and quality of life has deterioated to such a degree that no one wants to live here any more?, or is that when you start suggesting that maybe there does need to be some controls on population size, density and the extent of the development 'footprint'?

Easier (and cheaper) to hang onto natural values and systems in the first place than try and re-establish them later!

Oh, did i hit a nerve there???
Such language..very unbecoming.

How would I manage it? This is a democracy..if people want to live somewhere then they can..I am also a believer that we need to increase the population of this country dramatically..it is already shown by the skills shortage that we have.
I want a life and jobs for my grandkids and if some turtles have to suffer then I do not really care...obviously many animals suffered by building the dams we already have, by the mining etc for the products to build my house as well as the clearing of the land for same. I am afraid i cannot be hypocritical and stand and complain about land clearing or anything else similar (including dams) when I am living and using products that would not have been possible without these environmentally damaging processes.

Some can be sustainable but alas some cannot. As for the Traveston Dam, I am not in favour of it..if people did some simple maths they would realise that the Wivenhoe and Somerset dams have plenty of water in them. Don't use percentages but use megalitres and it will become obvious.

[turley]

Jim Tait, it is so nice to see someone talking some sense in this thread! Unfortunately it seems these days that an environmental assessment only needs to be conducted and the results of any assessment doesn't matter. The mary river cod (from all the evidence I have seen) are not successfully breeding in the stocked impoundments at the moment the mary river turtle, as perviously stated, is an endemic and extremely unique turtle that should be protected!

A reminder to everyone that Barra will not be allowed to be stocked in the proposed dam under current DPI legislation.

Pinhead, stop living upto your name and go have a read of some of Tim Flannery or David suzuki's books and then come back and tell me we still "need" to increase the population.

And with all of this, who is going to be complainning the most when the EPA starts to create marine parks in the freshwater systems to try and conserve the very "biodiversity" that this dam will destroy?

[PinHead]

Jim Tait, it is so nice to see someone talking some sense in this thread! Unfortunately it seems these days that an environmental assessment only needs to be conducted and the results of any assessment doesn't matter. The mary river cod (from all the evidence I have seen) are not successfully breeding in the stocked impoundments at the moment the mary river turtle, as perviously stated, is an endemic and extremely unique turtle that should be protected!

A reminder to everyone that Barra will not be allowed to be stocked in the proposed dam under current DPI legislation.

Pinhead, stop living upto your name and go have a read of some of Tim Flannery or David suzuki's books and then come back and tell me we still "need" to increase the population.

And with all of this, who is going to be complainning the most when the EPA starts to create marine parks in the freshwater systems to try and conserve the very "biodiversity" that this dam will destroy?

I have no intention of reading their books...especially Flannery's..and I will still stand by what I said..just because my opinion varies from the greenies viewpoint does not make it wrong.

We still need to increase the population...simple economics.

[Jim_Tait]

I have no intention of reading their books...especially Flannery's..and I will still stand by what I said..just because my opinion varies from the greenies viewpoint does not make it wrong.

We still need to increase the population...simple economics.

Yeah just because satelite imagery says our planet is a globe - doesn't mean your world ain't flat, right Pinhead? Reading books now that would be radical - especially ones that don't fit our world view, never know where it would take you!

Is increasing the country's population the only way to overcome skills shortages? It might sound a bit too 'socialistic' for those on the conservative side of politics but I thought investing in the education of the nation was how skills shortages were overcome??? Know the previous federal government certainly didn't believe in it - hence the shite were in now - oh well bring in some more shkilled migrants hey?

So if increasing the country's population is the answer (what was the question?) at what magic number does all our problems get solved (and how does it work) is it a poopulation of 50 million, 100 million...hell go for broke (literally) lets try 1 billion + in Australia (China's population) or do we need more?- you describe to me now how the landscape looks, how the economy booms, how every one's educated and most importantly (well to me and lots of others on this web site) what's the fishing like???

Growth for the sake of growth is the philosophy of cancer - hell look at human growth settlement patterns in a satelite image it even looks like cancer - massive undifferentiated growth - consuming the nutrients from the living system around it and excreting system dysfunction downstream.

Time we confronted it, drew a few lines in the sand to say enough is enough. No more dams in SE Qld especially on the Mary would be a good line to draw ! (knew I could get back on topic if I tried,.. just that you light my fuse Pinhead and you know it!!

[Poseidon]

You have summed it up pretty well once again Jim, and I thank-you for the way that you continue to approach these issues and put some real facts forward for the listeners on here.

Regards Cameron.

[Cammy]

You have summed it up pretty well once again Jim, and I thank-you for the way that you continue to approach these issues and put some real facts forward for the listeners on here.

Regards Cameron.

Agreed!

Cammo

[PinHead]

Yeah just because satelite imagery says our planet is a globe - doesn't mean your world ain't flat, right Pinhead? Reading books now that would be radical - especially ones that don't fit our world view, never know where it would take you!

Is increasing the country's population the only way to overcome skills shortages? It might sound a bit too 'socialistic' for those on the conservative side of politics but I thought investing in the education of the nation was how skills shortages were overcome??? Know the previous federal government certainly didn't believe in it - hence the shite were in now - oh well bring in some more shkilled migrants hey? Perhaps if you read some relevant literature regarding this, you may find out that they introduced many incentives for apprentices..such as topping up pay, refund of TAFE fees, health card etc etc and $850 per annum in tools. It take 4 years to complete most apprenticeships...we need skilled workers NOW

So if increasing the country's population is the answer (what was the question?) at what magic number does all our problems get solved (and how does it work) is it a poopulation of 50 million, 100 million...hell go for broke (literally) lets try 1 billion + in Australia (China's population) or do we need more?- you describe to me now how the landscape looks, how the economy booms, how every one's educated and most importantly (well to me and lots of others on this web site) what's the fishing like??? somewhere around 40 million should be a good mark.

Growth for the sake of growth is the philosophy of cancer - hell look at human growth settlement patterns in a satelite image it even looks like cancer - massive undifferentiated growth - consuming the nutrients from the living system around it and excreting system dysfunction downstream.

Time we confronted it, drew a few lines in the sand to say enough is enough. No more dams in SE Qld especially on the Mary would be a good line to draw ! (knew I could get back on topic if I tried,.. just that you light my fuse Pinhead and you know it!!

Your attempts at humiliation and sarcasm are rathhr feeble Jim..I would have more respect if you opposed the dam for the sake of the residents that will be affected by losing their properties and livelihoods..but for turtles?? Now that certainly does not justify either building the dam or not. I am a people person..the effect on peopel is of the utmost importance as far as I am concerned.

Just blow the fuse out Jim..I don't let anyone light mine.

[tunaticer]

I actually think the dam wall will be in the wrong location. It should be downstream about 8 miles of Gympie and force the town into moving to a FLOOD FREE ZONE! Every time it gets a decent shower they town has 3m of water in the main street. God knows Gympie needs a face lift at the very least, even Dayboro is presentable these days.

As for the fish and turtle stories..........I'm sure they will write e=xactly the same story they do in every other catchment and its always good news.

Jack.

[TonyM]

As for the fish and turtle stories..........I'm sure they will write e=xactly the same story they do in every other catchment and its always good news.

Jack.

Hi Jack,

Sorry, you lost me there!

Who is "they"? and what's the story they'll write?

Cheers
Tony

[turley]

Just want to thank jim again for his reply.

Pinhead, I understand your people point but we (as a community as a whole) fail to realise that our resources are limited and can only support a certain number of people physically on this planet. Because of the age of this country (Australia) we do not have the nutrients for our agriculture to support a large population hence the reason the USA has millions of people more than us even though it was settled around a very similar time by white men.

You can read books and disagree with their views. But until you read them you cannot make a truely educated opinion. By no means do I agree with everything that Tim Flannery has to say but he certianly has many valid points which should be considered.

Already the economics of uncontrolled growth of human populations is costing us in the form of global warming and the subsequent control measures that will be enforced in an attempt to slow the effect. Economics cannot continually rely on continual population growth or we will simply over populated the planet and most likely die out. My personal lifestyle will suffer from increased population in the form of inflated housing prices, increasing disease rates and general decreased health due to the density of people living in the modern urban environment.

I am by no means a "greenie" but I hope that I understand enough of the australian ecosystem to realise that it is as important to my lifestyle as it is to conservation. The mary river dam will have dramatic impacts on both my lifestyle and conservation.

[Ozwald]

Jim
Good stuff mate, keep it up!
Oz

We still need to increase the population...simple economics.

I think "simple" is probably the right description for this.

[PinHead]

it is obvious from this thread why infrastructure in this country is pathetic. Everytime something is proposed someone jumps on the bandwagon and sprouts that we might harm a butterfly or some other fauna or flora and millions are spent on environmental impact studies and then nothing is done. No one wants wholsesale destruction, however this environmental stuff is way out of hand. You want better roads and other facilities then perhaps the NIMBY syndrome and the green groups need to be put in their place for once and let's move ahead with some of these projects.

[elprez]

What if you dont want all the infastructure. I dont want super highways to the front door of my quiet little fishing shak. By the way I bought that shack because it was surrounded by national park, water front to a ramsar area, now a marine park, and all because of the Mary river delta. No sewerage, no water and never will be. Why should I have to compromise for those that want everyone to fall in line with the SIMPSONS mentality and live in Springfield. That reminds me that recently Ive been working in the burbs and see the biggest trailer boats of all time sitting in front yards yet on the coast the boats on average are much smaller. Theres a word for that P####e envy isnt there. I think to releive fishing pressure you may need to releive pressure put on the fishermen by themselves. Those that are always "targetting" a species, have to catch fish to justify expenses, invite a "mate"fishing then hit him up for fuel, this is fishing pressure. Yep I go fishing for fun and to see the sights.

[PinHead]

geez elprez..I thought all the bigger boats were tied up at marinas along the coast

[elprez]

trailers on or off ?