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Thread: AFLP preference announcement: Little fish make a big difference

  1. #1

    AFLP preference announcement: Little fish make a big difference

    The AFLP held their campaign launch today with media from ABC, 4BC, The Australian Newspaper, Bris 31 news among others. Heres the Media launch which announces preference arrangements:

    Australian Fishing and Lifestyle Party

    EMBARGOED 10 am 5 November 2007

    Little fish make a big difference

    With minor parties again set to decide the final outcome of the Senate election one party looming as a big fish among a pond of minnows is The Australian Fishing & Lifestyle Party.

    Entering the last election as The Fishing Party (Qld) they were renamed to the Australian Fishing and Lifestyle Party to reflect its broader voter appeal.
    This young party are set to again play a major role in determining the final Senate seat in Queensland. With obvious voter appeal they outpolled both the Greens and Democrats North of Mackay with primarily a North Queensland focus. Three years on they are better organised, better funded and have a huge issue in Brisbane with the looming fishing closures in Moreton Bay.

    “ While we started as primarily a North Queensland organization in reaction to the aggressive marine park rezoning of the Great Barrier Reef, issues like Moreton Bay closures, Fraser Island and Hervey Bay have all built our profile and credibility in the South East”’ said Senate candidate Kevin Collins.
    In the last Queensland election the party returned an average of 6% across the three northern seats and the one Brisbane bayside. Those numbers mean the party could possibly gain its first seat.

    “We take very seriously our responsibility as one of several King Makers. The fact that outdoor families, now have to involve themselves in the political process, is a sad indictment on a political system where preference deals and political bargaining seems to be the only way to get the right outcomes”, he said.

    At the last state election the Greens labeled us “a minority interest group with too much influence over coalition policy.” “If that doesn’t describe the Greens what does?” In the last election the party denied the Greens the last Qld Senate seat by directing preferences to the conservatives.
    So, who will be crowned?

    “At this election we have directed our efforts towards Family First who may end up with the balance of power... Our second preference is directed to National Party stalwart Ron Boswell who has championed a number of causes on our behalf over the last 3 years”.

    Media Contact: Kevin Collins 07 4948 0088 0414 785 462

  2. #2

    Re: AFLP preference announcement: Little fish make a big difference

    i suppose my question is... why is "Family First' being given first preference???

  3. #3

    Re: AFLP preference announcement: Little fish make a big difference

    Quote Originally Posted by DR View Post
    i suppose my question is... why is "Family First' being given first preference???
    And why have they climbed into bed here in New South Wales with the fanatical gun lobby

  4. #4

    Re: AFLP preference announcement: Little fish make a big difference

    Hi all,

    Preferences are always a very difficult thing to look at. Besides giving all you have got to get a seat as the AFLP in your own right, you also need to look at the parties around you as to who has not only has/will be showing empathy to you and your policies, but also where can they possibly end up in the end of the counting. Preferences can make or break senators/parties as was described on the Sunday program with Kevin and how preferences turn minor parties into "King Makers". As Barnaby Joyce said on the program yesterday, as he was elected on the back of the fishing vote, he has to take our policies and our needs into account when making decisions in the Senate.

    You need to maximise not only your own vote but ensure that both your preferences out and those coming back in are putting the agenda constantly on an upward spiral and not be chucked into the recyle bin and forgotten.

    As far as deliberations for these selections go, there are many sleepless nights and long discussions about pro's and cons that go on over weeks and months. It is a taxing time on everyone involved in that process and is one no member of the executive of the party would have taken lightly.

    We want to win this seat in QLD and win one in SA and we are giving every ounce of ourselves to make that happen; often to the detriment of family, work, your money and health but if we don't stand up for our rights like this, who will? That's why I joined in the first place. I am not a political animal, I am a Sales Manager who has a young family and my escape of lifes pressures is bobbing around with them in our boat, wetting a line or being eaten by mossies out camping somewhere. We love it and I will not let someone take that away from us.

    So regardless of why them or how did we, shouldn't we just back the Party with as much gusto as we argue about the other stuff we do on these forums? I for one reckon this is worth it but I do appreciate that everyone has their own beliefs and wants and that is why you can vote below the line - that's how the voting system works where you can have your say directly. You can even pick and choose names. If you feel we are representing you vote 1 above the line; if not, vote your own way below it - that's democracy.

    This to me is worth it because I know I am doing my best for what I think is in the best interests of all who grew up or wants their kids to grow up with this lifestyle of not only fishing and boating, but those that go bush 4wding, those that love camping, those that want to ride a horse on a beach or in the bush on the firetrails. If we get up, perfect result, if we don't I know I can look my kids in the eye and tell them I tried with all my might.

    I suggest that if you feel strongly enough about this, then put your hand up to help as a boothworker spreading the news and give it your all, get involved and make it happen. Those that already have done so thank you. Some boothworkers think the giveaways are great as a thankyou from the industry for their help, others are just happy to be there to hand out cards and that is enough. Either way, we can't do this without your support.

    Anyway that is my side of the story.


  5. #5

    Re: AFLP preference announcement: Little fish make a big difference

    from Family First website:

    "FAMILY FIRST wants to more than double recurrent Government
    funding to the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority from $4.8
    million to $10 million, to support its work protecting this
    magnificient marine environment;"


    censorship over what we watch

    or you can read all of their policies:

    I do not agree with Family I guess that is my Senate vote gone.

  6. #6

    Re: AFLP preference announcement: Little fish make a big difference

    Hey Pinhead.

    Just vote the way I do.
    In the senate vote below the line. Put 1 in AFLP then 2 to 5 in your next choice then go beserk with the rest of your numbers.

    I like to think im wasting someones time trying to work out where my preferences go.

    Just make sure the greens are the last lot of numbers..
    Think Ill have another one.
    Last edited by mowerman; 05-11-2007 at 06:20 PM. Reason: 1 2 many beers

  7. #7

    Re: AFLP preference announcement: Little fish make a big difference

    Well spoken Chris! I'm glad I didnt have to bear the burden of responsibility for choosing preferences.

    I think people seem to get stuck on what preferences actually mean, to me its like a game of Chess - all strategy, you make your move based on what is actually best for your current situation. For the AFLP its doing the very best they can to get a candidate into the senate. Preference deals arent necessarily based on who makes the best bed pals - but who can help each other politically.

    It all comes to numbers, the truth of the matter is we probably dont have the numbers to go head to head with the Nats and so preferencing them first would be a waste because they would gobble us up. We MIGHT have a slim chance against family first, its a gamble but if we poll one more primary than them - then we gobble them up and all their preferences flow to us.... IF we can stay in the game long enough we will also gobble up Pauline and if that happens then we can take on the Nats and the seat is almost the AFLPs and Kevin has a seat in the senate and a mouthpiece for the fishing and lifestyle movement.

    Its a chess game and nothing to do with bed partners, yes its a gamble - they may yet "take our queen" and the game may be over but better be in the game then hand over our prefs to the biggest boys on the board without a fight.

    Anybody who gets upset about the preference arrangements simply doesnt understand the nature of the senate game (very different to a state or Fed ticket). They also dont understand they have control of their own preferences if they want to distribute them in the manner they see fit. Sorry if I offend anyone - but the truth does hurt sometimes!

    I personally like Manchilds (Georges) view - I too vote below the line - distributing my main preference to my preferred party last (well before AFLP came along anyway) I understand the process the one slip of paper goes thru and I enjoy the thought of the counters moving it across many different piles before it eventually lands in the major pile... but thats just me I'm twisted like that. You place a one above the line - you vote is counted once - you number every square and it can be counted maybe 70 times. Just a warning... be very careful one slight slip and your vote is void.

    Anyway have fun!


  8. #8

    Re: AFLP preference announcement: Little fish make a big difference

    I am not a family first fan either. My vote wasted also.

  9. #9

    Re: AFLP preference announcement: Little fish make a big difference

    i do not like a lot of what they are about, BUT, it's worth a punt to maybe gobble the mongrels up.....

  10. #10

    Re: AFLP preference announcement: Little fish make a big difference

    Another Point Of Veiw

    Family First gives Hanson a chance: Dems

    By Roberta Mancuso and Gabrielle Dunlevy | November 05, 2007

    FAMILY First's lead Senate candidate Jeff Buchanan has denied the party endorses Pauline Hanson's views, saying he expected the Democrats to be unhappy about being preferenced last.
    Australian Democrats Senator Andrew Bartlett today accused Family First of "rewarding" Ms Hanson for her controversial views by giving her its preferences.
    The party has boosted the right-wing firebrand's chances of being elected to the Senate, by giving her its preferences ahead of Labor, the Greens and Senator Bartlett, who faces a battle to retain his seat.
    He accused Family First of rewarding Ms Hanson for her "extremist and destructive" views.
    His comments came after the former One Nation leader yesterday renewed calls for a halt to Muslim immigration, maintaining that some migrants had no intention of being Australian.
    "The Family First party clearly believes that families don't come first if they are Muslim, African or Asian," Senator Bartlett said.
    "This sort of prejudice and ignorance repeatedly expressed by Pauline Hanson is incredibly damaging to our social fabric, as well as incredibly hurtful to Muslim Australians.
    "It should be unequivocally opposed, not rewarded with preferences."
    But Mr Buchanan said the party had preferenced the Coalition in Queensland before any other major party groups, and no less than 15 other Senate groups and all other ungrouped independent candidates before Ms Hanson.
    "We expected Senator Bartlett to be unhappy as Family First preferenced him last, just after the Greens and Labor," Mr Buchanan said.
    "This is because Senator Bartlett's preferences are supporting the Greens – as are Labor – and this increases the chances of the Greens winning a Senate seat in Queensland".peMr Buchanan said Labor and the Democrats owed Queenslanders an explanation for preferencing the Greens, a party that had "many extreme anti-family policies".
    "Many Queenslanders would be disappointed that the Democrats have drifted so far away from their original mantra of keeping other parties honest, and siding with the Greens as a last desperate attempt at electoral survival," he said.
    But he said Ms Hanson's views were also extreme.
    "Ms Hanson has extreme policies, but we are not preferencing her very high at all," he said.
    Senator Bartlett said if there was a large swing away from the Coalition, there was a "real chance" that Family First's Senate preferences would flow to Ms Hanson should she outpoll them.
    "Combined with favourable preference allocations from a range of smaller groups ... and some independents, there is no doubt Pauline Hanson is now a credible chance if she gains a reasonable primary vote herself," he said.
    He listed the smaller groups as the Shooters' Party, two different fishing parties, the non-Custodial Parents' Party, One Nation, the LDP (Liberty and Democracy Party), and the Carers' Party.
    Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent genius will not; un-rewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone is omnipotent."

  11. #11

    Re: AFLP preference announcement: Little fish make a big difference

    Thanks for that post Shane.

    This article shows that the preferences are designed to give each party the best chance to get the seat - sometimes for some parties it is regardless of views of those involved. It is all about who you think you can beat in the primary vote, then where you think the preferences go to best advantage your Party. A good example of this is in Victoria where Senator Fielding was elected on just 1.5% of the primary vote as preferences from Labor giving him the kick in the last election.

  12. #12

    Re: AFLP preference announcement: Little fish make a big difference

    Crafty - your vote is not wasted. You can vote the way you want to by a below the line vote. You can put a 1 for the AFLP and then number who you want to come next. When you see the form, it has all the parties lined up across the top. Put a 1 in the party you want to vote for is an above the line vote which means you let the party you selected allocate preferences on your behalf. There is then a thick black line and you need to number every single box 1-65; this is below the line voting. That is the beauty of our voting system you can choose which is best for you.

    However that said, it you take some time follow the flow of preferences around all candidates (65 of them in QLD alone) and their group tickets - which you can see on the AEC website as they have been released for public viewing - you can work out where the numbers flow and what will be the outcomes.

    Like I said the decision of who, what, where is how to best get Kevin into a senate seat. Lets look at the the options and who they preferenced 1st.

    1. Labor (preference Greens)
    2. Liberal (pref Nats then F/First)
    3. Nationals (pref Lib the F/First)
    4. Greens (pref Carers)
    5. Democrats (pref climate change)
    6. Family first (pref AFLP)
    7. Pauline (pref One Nation WA)
    8. Shooters (preference AFLP)
    9. What Women Want (preference Greens)
    10. The Fishing Party (Ron Boswell 1st, then Liberals before more Nats.)
    11. Liberty and Democracy (preference Democrats)
    12. Democratic Labor Party (pref Christians)
    13. Socialist Alliance (preference Greens)
    14. Senators Online (preference Carers)
    15. One Nation WA (pref unendorsed Baker)
    16. Citizens Electoral Council (pref Libs)
    17. Christian Democratic Party (pref Nat then Lib)
    18. Non Custodial Parenting (pref Pauline)
    19. Climate Change (preference Democrats)
    20. Carers (preference Greens)
    21. Several Unendorsed candidates (3 parties - 2 pref greens)

    So 5 directly give their votes to the Greens. Another 2 have given their votes to the greens if they are not there. So that is 7 off the bat out of round one. Looking at round two preferences that would add more to the list pending vote allocation.

    Looking at this and considering some of you have such an objection with F/First - how else would you have put a preference flow together to give the AFLP the best chance of getting up? Look at the flow above. If we get enough Primary vote to jump over someone like Family First, their preferences flow to us...PLUS that of the Liberals and the Nationals due to their allocations. Think about how this system works and see what alternatives are available to get Kevin that seat. Also taking into the post from Shane with that article.....there really was no other way.

    I hope this helps clear up a few things.
    Last edited by Chris Ryan; 05-11-2007 at 09:01 PM. Reason: spelling

  13. #13

    Re: AFLP preference announcement: Little fish make a big difference

    ok I guess I just have to spend half the day at the polling booth. This will be a first

  14. #14

    Re: AFLP preference announcement: Little fish make a big difference

    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Bullock View Post
    And why have they climbed into bed here in New South Wales with the fanatical gun lobby
    Derek pull your head in until you have a clue what your talking about please

    Cheers Chris
    Democracy: Simply a system that allows the 51% to steal from the other 49%.

  15. #15

    Re: AFLP preference announcement: Little fish make a big difference

    Shane's Post is quite interesting! Senator Bartlett is probably one of the dumbest politicians on the planet!! Instead of trying to differentiate himself and the party away from the greens Bartlett is trying to out green the greens. He has turned vegan and no longer drives a car preferring to catch a bus. and in order to try and save his political skin he has struck up a deal with the very people who threaten to take his place: the Greens.

    He will know that the Greens will outpoll him in a heartbeat so he SHOULD have been trying to gather support from all the other minor parties in order to draw support away from them in the hope of possibly gaining enough 2nd preferences (the FIRST preference is ACTUALLY the PRIMARY vote - have a look at the ticket) to overcome them. Instead he preferences them quite highly - he might as well have given them the job. Its going to be a tight race between Greens and Boswell for that last senate seat with HOPEFULLY a surprise from AFLP... if our primary isnt split too much... but mustn't focus on that - just getting on with the job!

    Chris, I think you and the other executives have given AFLP the best possible chance of gaining a senate seat. It was a hard decision given the prevailing factors and a job well done, it wont suit everybody and those who it does not suit can simply vote below the line.



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