Stripper guide con?

[dogsbody]

While my father was purchasing a new reel he got onto the subject of the stripper guide on a rod. The chap at the store said that a large stripper guide is a furphy and said it was proven that you get more distance in a cast from a small guide. Now i have not heard of this before and want to know if this is the case. Anyone heard this or know from first hand experience?


Dave.

[Lucky_Phill]

It depends on your reel and rod setup.

Alvey reels have a large diameter, therefore require a large stripper guide.

Threadlines are similar requiring a large diameter stripper, but not as big as an alvey.

Baitcasters are in the category of not needing large guides as the point of which the line leaves the reel is close to the rod.

All you have to do is think of how the line comes off the reel in the casting position.

All....IMO.... and as far as I know.

Phill

[finga]

Yep, I agree with ya Phil.
The way I look at it is 'is the line going to slap the rod on the way off' if yes I like a stripper to stop the rod slap. If not let it be.

[DR]

i hate disagreeing , but, i have to disagree the longest cast i have seen came off a 6" alvey through a #20 extra high mount stripper. the cast was made by the then Qld casting champion..
from my experience a #40 stripper is all thats really required..that is the largest i have ever used & theres been no complaints from sidecast users.

i still believe it's a personal thing, if you think you need a bigger one , you probably do..

[HST]

DR you are spot on ,all this large striper talk is very old school ,no bigger than a 20 is fine but placement of this stripper is only achievable by first getting the choker guide placed right ,all other guides placements can be worked from this point ,

[dogsbody]

Phil the discussion went along the lines if it didn't matter if it was an alvey a small stripper was the go. Seems this has merit as DR has seen and placement needs to be right as per HST suggests.


Dave.

[Owen]

The trouble with these generalisations by the "experts" is that they often don't even ask what kind of reel is going on it, what line size, what weight will it be casting etc etc.
Factory made rods are a compromise. They want to make a rod that will work OK whether you bung a 6" alvey or a 4000 spin reel on it. Hence it will probably not be set up right for either if the n'th degree of performance is your goal.

The big stripper guides are more in line with the "cone of flight" theory which doesn't have much following these days.
In fact if you look at the new concept guide theory, then once you've choked the line down then the size of the guides need not be much bigger than the tip the whole way.

I did a spiral wrap rod and can't see any appreciable difference in casting distance with that either on the same line class and lure size.

[Lucky_Phill]

Interesting points Dave.

I suppose it does depend on where the placement of the stripper guide is.

I put a #40 high foot guide on a 11ft Ugly stick and the casting distance increased by at least 15-20 mtrs.

I am now wondering about the ' theory ' behind the non-large stripper guide.

having said that, this question is in relation to the average fisho and his average rod.

So, I suppose my question is now, does one remove the big guide from our surf rods to get our baits to the ' back bank ' ?

regarding the long cast:-

was the guide placed in same position as standard stripper ?
what type of line was used ?
what weight was used ?
what alvey was used ?
what recipe of guides were used?
would the long cast rod be useful as a fishing rod, if the guides were setup for casting and not allowing the rod to perform to it;s intended purpose as a fishing/ fighting rod ?
( I hope you know what I am getting here Dave ???? )

I suppose more questions would be :-

Would it be detrimental to the average fisho to have a large stripper guide on his rod ?

Why are surf rods ( shelf ) sold with large guides on ?

And the final question, how much more distance did the long cast champ get with the smaller guide on than the large stripper ?

This could make an interesting video, having it set up and watching in slow mo, the line racing through the stripper and then through a smaller diameter one !!!... maybe that way we could see what the friction/ non-friction aspects of the different guides are. Sounds like a project for some Physics Uni Student !!!

Cheers Phill

[HST]

that video footage was done back in the early 80.s when the this concept was been used in Japan ,when you find a copy of it you will see where all your friction is ,

shelf rods are just that old technology ,

the rest of the world you can buy today's tackle

In Australia you can buy top fly ,game ,bream and bass rods try and buy todays surf rods ,We are a dumping ground for old new tackle ,

[DR]

jeez Phill your stretching the old grey matter now. I will try from memory as it was a while ago..i don't like getting too involved in this sort of discussion as there are so many opinions out there as to which is right, my opinions are from what i found..

I am now wondering about the ' theory ' behind the non-large stripper guide.
from memory it was to stop the line from flogging on the blank by choking it quickly, & it worked..



having said that, this question is in relation to the average fisho and his average rod.

So, I suppose my question is now, does one remove the big guide from our surf rods to get our baits to the ' back bank ' ?
truthfully, i don't know that it would make much difference to the average fisho without him changing his casting style a bit.

regarding the long cast:-

was the guide placed in same position as standard stripper ?
pretty much, i built him a prototype on a 14' blank that was developed with him in mind.

what type of line was used ?
Mono, don't remember the strength.

what weight was used ?
again, i don't remember, but it was reasonable.

what alvey was used ?
it was a 6" alvey, don't ask which model, as they are all the same to me, i don't, haven't, never will own one having said that, it was 'hotted up' a bit by shaving the spool so the angle the line left was not as acute as the standard, but was still a BIG loop coming off the reel.

what recipe of guides were used?
was what was considered to get the best out of the blanks loading capacity, was a few more guides than a standard sidecast rod. the stripper stood about 3" tall so the centre of the loop was similar to the centre of the stripper & had to be imported as they weren't & probably still aren't available out here

would the long cast rod be useful as a fishing rod, if the guides were setup for casting and not allowing the rod to perform to it;s intended purpose as a fishing/ fighting rod ?
it was built to suit the caster, but would have worked perfectly fine to fish with.


( I hope you know what I am getting here Dave ???? )

I suppose more questions would be :-

Would it be detrimental to the average fisho to have a large stripper guide on his rod ?
a little bit but probably not really worth worrying about.

Why are surf rods ( shelf ) sold with large guides on ?
habit.ever tried getting a queenslander to switch from fourex or bundy to another beer or rum, no matter how good the other one is, they won't change or even try it if it works why look for something else..

And the final question, how much more distance did the long cast champ get with the smaller guide on than the large stripper ?
didn't see him cast with a standard/ large stripper. these casts were in a paddock about the length of a footy field, at the end were trees about 30-50' tall, the cast was way above the trees & hadn't started it's descent when we lost site of it it was a huge cast. again the casting style would not suit fishing it was a purpose developed cast..

as i said above there will be those that disagree, but that is what discussion is for, i can only comment on my personal experience.
i have found there was so much BS involved in the fishing tackle industry when i was part of it, it was laughable..egos are an interesting thing, but that is another whole discussion

hope i have explained myself for you..
cheers




Cheers Phill

[finga]

This has been all excellent to read.
I love new thoughts
There was a bit here a while again about this but I forgot to go back and read again and understand...slug I am.

Another experiment has entered my tiny brain.
I'll try and find these high guides mentioned and build a blank I have for beach use twice.
Once old school and once new school (new school last as it'll probably stay that way and see what the difference is.
Is there any difference in reel seat placement and butt configuration??
Any hints on what these guides were??
Realistically the experiment is easy to do. We're not talking about 3 days of binding here just and hour or so....so what's to loose....nothing and everything to gain
Excellent
Cheers Scott

[craftycarp]

ok yes I am a bit off a beginner at rod building.. but whats the differene between a choker guide and a stripper guide? I also have it on good authority (HST) that reversing the first guide (stripper guide?) helps with feeding the line into the fist guide. Anyone know why this is the case?

[HST]

Alan thats also spot on ,XTR

[Willo]

The theory as I understand it from the US rod building sites is that a smaller stripper guide chokes the line down quickly and gets it under control causeing less friction on the rest of the guides on a cast.
Thats the theory ??
Will try it on the next spin rod I build a see how it go's
Willo

[Lucky_Phill]

Thanks Dave, all info appreciated.

Cheers Phill