Knots for braid?

[Adamy]

Has anyone out there had much experience with spiderwire stealth?? I have just obtained a batch and having trouble with knots (joining braid to mono leader) that I use for other braids - It seems like the stealth cuts the leader material after only a few casts - this has happened to me too many times now - have lost quite a few lures on the cast - its casts out fine and then when I wind in - theres no leader left - but the knot in the braid is still intact leaving me to believe the mono has been cut through.

I'm using a uni to blood, uni to uni and another knot I dont know the name of - any suggestions?

The line itself is great casts a mile and is nice through the guides - I bought quite a few rolls of 6lb (1lb diameter) it retails at $44.95 but if antone wants to try some and maybe perfect the knots - I can let a few rolls go at $20each plus postage (whatever that is)

Looking forward to your thoughts

[Huggy_B]

you could try a bimini twist with an albright, but I suspect that it will impeed castability. :-/

Im surprised that a double uni is "cutting" through - I use that to join platypus super braid (4lb) to 4 - 6lb mono leader and if any braid will cut Im sure that will, its like frickin razor wire!
Do you adequately lubricate (ie. slobber all over) your knots before tensioning them? Inadequate lubing can have the effect you are describing.
And are the lines of fairly similar diameter? If they arent, the knots mentioned will not work so well and the knot will "pull itself undone" so to speak.

[Tony_N]

Adamy

Mate, it just may be possible that you are making a mistake I also made once. #You say that you are using a "uni to uni" knot. #That indicates that you are tying a uni knot to a uni knot. This will cut your mono at just about every cast. The double uni knot (recommended) is quite different to a uni to uni connection.

www.thaifishingguide.com/fishtechequip/ techniques/knots/double_uni_knot_steps.html

I tie a bimini twist in the braid and for the double uni I use 5 wraps for the mono and 8 wraps for the braid.

FWIW
Tony

[PMC]

Spider wire and all fused spectra lines are very sharp and will cut leader if not tied correctly. Fused lines flatten out and make a very sharp edge, Braided lines are more round because of there construction and are a little more forgiving, but will still cut mono if not tied properly.
A bimini in the braid will help, try and get hold of one of Geoff Wilsons books on tying braid, they are invaluable.
Paul

[Adamy]

Thanks for that guys.... I'll try the double uni with the bimini double and see if I dont lose more lures - I'm casting 10-40g slugs off the seaway wall - so its bound to put a lot of pressure on the knots - although I have never had a problem previously using uni to uni when I was running spiderwire fusion - but this stealth seems to be much sharper.

Oh yeh a question with regards to the bimini in braid... isnt the purpose of a bimini to provide a knot with increased elasticity absorbing the shock of strikes etc? Therefore with braids nil or close to nil elasticity - does the knot still acheive its purpose? I normally use a spider hitch or similar for the double - quicker to tie when the fish are chopping...... Your thoughts are more than welcome

Thanks again,

Adam

[Tony_N]

Oh yeh a question with regards to the bimini in braid... isnt the purpose of a bimini to provide a knot with increased elasticity absorbing the shock of strikes etc? Therefore with braids nil or close to nil elasticity - does the knot still acheive its purpose?



I don't believe it has anything to do with being a shock leader. My understanding is that its doubled to increase the strength of the knot, to spread the "bite" of the braid and most importantly, to help prevent knot slippage.

[Tony_N]

I have never had a problem previously using uni to uni when I was running spiderwire fusion - but this stealth seems to be much sharper.



Re-reading your post you are still saying uni to uni - are you absolutely sure you are actually tying a double uni knot and not a uni to uni knot? "Sharper" shouldn't be an issue if you are tying the knot correctly

[craftycarp]

Oh yeh a question with regards to the bimini in braid... isnt the purpose of a bimini to provide a knot with increased elasticity absorbing the shock of strikes etc?

The main purpose of a bimini (not the only one though) is to give the knot that connects to leader more surface area. These new braids and especially the fused lines, as others have said are sharper/thinner than mono and therefore cut through leader material when under strain. A well tied bimini adds strength by increasing the surface area associated with braided/fused line. The extra surface area for all intense and purposes makes the braided line (for want of another word) thicker and therefore less likely to slice through the mono leader.

Having said all that a spider hitch will basically do the same job, However I have found when targetting large hoodlums or big reefies a spider hitch will cut through itself under pressure. But for breaming and most other light tackle fishing its fine. These guys on TV who tie bimini's for bream I find a little paranoid.. Then again my fishing isn't being filmed, if it was I might think differently ;)

Finally I have to say properly tied double uniknot should not be breaking so often. After reading this I went downstairs and cut a few peices off a 6 pound reel of spiderwire I have down stairs and tied a few double uni's to 6lpd flurocarbon leader. Tied the whole lot to the end of a broom stick and connected a big sinker and started swinging this around in the backyard (bullwhip style, Wife yelled at me after a while so I had to stop). It didn't want to break, I eventually got it to break by standing on the sinker and pulling pretty hard. This was without spider hitch or bimini.

So as far as I can tell you might be tying the knots a little badly or the other possibilty is that your leader material is a little old ?

Anyway

[PMC]

If you wanted to try it, (and it does work), find some of Harros knotted dogs, he makes them in double lengths for slug chucking. Its a simple job of tying a bimini double then "figure of eight knot to connect the leader. The knot directions are on the pac. Have a look at his website if you cant find any for sale.

[WHITTO]

Tie your leader on first then tie your braid,this should stop the failure, Cheers Whitto ;) ;)

[grayson]

I use 6lb fireline on a light spinning outfit I have and use a double uni without problems. I am hung up on using bimini's but have found it unecessary (so far anyway) in this line class, and I reckon it casts better without the double. I have experimented with doubling the braid on itself when tieing the double uni an I reckon its a good ide and worth considering. The only hitch I have is that I sometimes have trouble tidying up the knot (the double not snugging up evenly), but practice should fix that. I use a dab of superglue on a lot of my knots in the belief that it might help stop the braid slipping (well it helps me anyway). I make sure I use heaps of lubrication and I have taken to carting around a snmall plastic container of graphite powder for this purpose after witnessing a buddy using the stuff. I have to admit that while I cart the stuff around I have only actually used it once so can't say if its the go yet.

[Adamy]

Hey excellent feedback!! and yes Tony I have been using a uni to uni knot - not a double uni knot - Which I have never before had a problem but now I am thinking that with this new line it must be the problem... so will use the double uni in future - Thanks.

Craftycarp - you crack me up - I wouldnt have the guts to whip a snapper sinker around the backyard - tell ur wife I'm on her side haha - My wife would have a fit too ;D Generally my knots are pretty good and material is new - I think its my choice of knots - I'll give the double uni a go.... and post the results

Often I have trouble with the double opening during the cast and wrapping around the guide - ruins the cast and makes the lure jerk back like a dog running at full speed - then being stopped by a short chain. Usually happens when I am a little eager to get the slug out and throw too vigorously.... anyone have this problem? any solutions? can you twist the double so that it doesnt open - or will that wreck the knot?

[Cloud_9]

get your self a Geoff wilson book of knots.
covers everything your needing.
if your bream fishing or under a couple kilos.
i use NO DOUBLE. even with 4lb braid.
i tie a albright knot. or slightly improoved Albright knot.
No knot failures .
the thinner the main the more raps around the leader
and i use this for up to 20lb leader to 4lb main.
in the heavier lines like 30 main ( braid ) i do a biminy double and then a
tony jonesd wind on leader knot.
both of these methods cast well.
the knots are very compact with no big tag ends.
you can hear them click through the guides, but thats about all.
test your knots before you fish with them.
PS the book is $10.
Cheers Cloud 9

[Tony_N]

.............. and yes Tony I have been using a uni to uni knot - not a double uni knot - Which I have never before had a problem but now I am thinking that with this new line it must be the problem... so will use the double uni in future - Thanks.............


I feel sure that this will change it around for you. As I said, Ihave done the same thing and it was driving me nuts. Finally sat myself down and carefully thought through what I was doing with the knot and it dawned on me that I had for some unknown reason, permanently changed it from double uni to uni to uni. Reverted to double uni and no further trouble.

cheers

Tony

[Huggy_B]

it seems as though if you revert to the double uni, then you should be cooking with gas. I use that on all my light tackle and have even caught a 7kg pinkie on 10lb braid with a 12lb trace!

[The_Walrus]

For lure casting (bream, bass, flathead) I used Harros knoted dogs and the conection he recommend to a double in the braid. I use a spiders hitch to make the double in the braid (bionic braid)

For bait fishing & casting slugs, I join the leader to the braid using an improved albright. The leader is also long enought to have several turns on the reel so the leader takes all the casting strain.

Never had any problems using the spiders hitch in the braid.

Luc

[FishFinger1977]

Hi all,
Well when I had my reels I used a binimi twist (40 turns) to a braid leader knot. Always worked well and never let me down except when cast at high speed through a surf rod. I suspect it shattered the knot when the guides hit it at high speed. It can also be used as a wind on mono leader so you can have a couple of meters of heavier mono for trace and can cut on the day for changing rigs and save the braid. Regards Scott

[grave41]

Cloud 9 im with you ,both the book and the tony jones leader knot.Iuse the leader knot on 80lb braid and 120lb leader with no failures.

[Adamy]

Ok OK.... so now I've gone away and done some practice.... but I cant tell - maybe I'm stupid... the difference between a double uni knot (http://www.thaifishingguide.com/fishtechequip/techniques/knots/double_uni_knot_steps.html) and the uni to uni (http://www.fishsa.com/kntiesun.php) can someone please explain the difference - going spinning tommorrow and dont want to throw away and more lures.

thanks,

Adam

[Tony_N]

Mate #- if you are confused it might be my fault.

The double uni knot is the one that you will find anywhere with a google search.

When I was talking about a uni to uni I meant that I was tying one line with #a uni knot to another #line like I might tie it to a hook or swivel and then tying the second line to the first like IT was a hook or a swivel. #This meant that there was just one thread of braid across the mono in the centre of the knot which would be cut on just about every cast. The double uni knot generates several wraps of the braid around the mono and vice-versa the mono around the braid #so that there is not the single thread of mono transverse to the single thread of braid.

The two links that you have listed are both the correct double uni knot.

So hard to write this after a couple of sherbets - but hope it is clear. J.Hope I haven't confused the issue too much.

Tony

[Adamy]

OK Tony I'm with you now..... Yes thats the exact knot that has failed on me several times..... I'll try using more twists in the knot to get more braid across the knot - more surface area should lead to less cutting - hopefully! I was using 5 loops or twists - will try doubling that and see how I go. I am currently trying to join 20lb spiderwire stealth (teflon impregnated spectra braid - its different to normal spiderwire actual braid not tubular fibres) to a mono leader of 40lbs .55mm diametre.

The 6lb stealth tied to 12lb vanish flourocarbon leader has also given me troubles - but that was without the double - will try the double - more wrapps and see how we go. any further suggestions are welcome - will superglue make any difference?

Thanks,

Adam

[Tony_N]

Adamy

Just one further thoiught. Make sure that you lubricate the knot with spit before pulling it tight. Not sure about the superglue - it just could make the knot stronger and less likely to cut itself. Certainly tidies up any loose ends.

all the best with it

Tony

[Adamy]

Thanks for that Tony..... Very happy to report that I went spinning off the seaway (landbased) yesterday - used the doubled uni and used at least 10 wraps instead of the usual 4-5 used lots of spit to lubricate and no knot failures even when big GT hit - going the other way at a million miles an hour - while spinning flat strap...... felt like my raider was hit by a train - didnt get to land the fish - eventually got him stuck on a rock and then smashed by a massive wave - broke the 40lb leader.. drenched us....... but no knot failures. Thanks for your help and persistence.

Adam

[LizardWizard]

my favourite, and most often used joiner is the bimini-bristol combination
the only knot i use on gear (jigs, hooks and swivels) is the palomar. thats it.

its easier to show than explain.
heres the bimini. though im sure youve got that one together.
http://www.britishcongerclub.org.uk/knots/bimini_twist.htm

note: to lock the bimini, lock one leg of the loop, then wrap both legs together and lock, then wrap the first leg alone and lock it.

this is the finish that all the staff at Anglers Warehouse use, they told me that is the only finish they use, and they have never lost a line or fish from faulty knot. heres their site.. http://www.anglerswarehouse.com.au/

just remember.. 1, 2, 1

heres the bristol knot...
http://www.britishcongerclub.org.uk/knots/bristol_knot.htm

http://georgepoveromo.com/lineleaderconnection.htm

and here
http://www.hatterasoutfitters.com/no_name_knot.htm

note: at step 3 going into step 4, hold the tag (to stop it pulling back and unwinding) and pull the main line. being sure to moisten as it closes to about an inch in length, the resulting knot will be a tiny "spring" shaped coil wrapping the end of the binini loop

please note that the bristol knot is similar to the bionic bind, but far easier to tie...
http://www.ausfish.com.au/harro/knots.shtml

the bionic bind requires a uniform tightening of the knot, the bristol knot never fails, just wet it and pull it tight, no need to ensure the loops are aligned or anything else. its automatic, kinda like a good uni knot, if pulled gently till tight, it will be perfect. in fact if you watch how the knot is created, it is a uni knot made in reverse, same twists with the line lock.

there is also a knot in geof wilsons books that is similar to the bristol knot, but it requires 6-8 even loops up the bimini looped line, then same 6-8 even loops back down the outside of the still perfect first loops made, trying to keep the loops evenly spaced. this is equivalent of a manually tied bimini twist. imagine tying a bimini 70 times evenly, then doing it back down the outside, one hickup and the whole knot is crap. what makes the bimini so easy to tie is that your using the tension of the twisted line to do the work, just be stead with hand and get those outer wraps neat next to each other.

a bristol knot can be tied with your eyes closed, im serious !!!
tie it once and see just how easy it is.

good luck, and be careful the fireline doesnt slice your fingers

[bundy1]

Hi
I had similar probs some time ago give this site a try.
www.stren.com

cheers....shanxz

[Tony_N]

Just out of interest Bundy1 which of the knots on that site solved your problem. Some people swear by that Stren "J" knot.

Tony

[slyham775]

has any one tryed ducknose knot for thr braid to leader ????

[Adamy]

Re the bristol knot - I used to try a similar knot using the double to wrapp the leader then pulling the double and leader up fast - same result as the bristol tho.... but the single strand of the braid double still cut the mono leader... any thoughts?

[Cloud_9]

To alll those of you who are recomending these you beaut knots.
when your out fishing you need something thats quick to tie, and works.
the guy that's tieing the spider hitch , thats a great knot if your not pushing your tackle limits. but your halveing your breaking strain.
put it to the test.
see how quick you can tie these knots in a rocking boat with the wind blowing. :-?
you need to look at quick , simple and does the job !
for a lot of esturary fishimng i use 4lb braid - no double- and i tie an albright knot on up to 20lb mono from 4lb and the only thing that changes in the knot is the number of raps of the main line you do.
and the reliability i have is pretty good.
i fished the Flathead classic last year with 4lb and 8lb - on 2 different rods .
8lb Baitcaster to 10lb leader.
cast it for 2days with no knot failure and im still useing the same rig now.
same leader with the same knot, i haven't retied anything on the reel yet and its still holding. im going bass fishing with it at maroon sunday.
i have a fishing buddy that for 4lb braid he does a double double to the main. thats 4 strands to the leader in a 30 twist bimini. to 12 or 15 lb leader.
the time taken to tie this is with pratice 4+ minites but i can tie a albright in probably 1 minite. ( wind and a rocky boat)
he still gets busted up on snags just like me, we still catch the same size fish.
the same guy wastes a lot of line by throwing away the last 5-10 metres after each trip.
WHY???
most braids break well above there breaking strain anyway. so as long as your getting the line break of the line your on a winner.
most of my braid is up to 4 years old. no probs so far.
i do have new stuff but thats cos im allways looking for the ulimate line.
i think XDS is by far the finest ive found so far. but my next purchase will be the new BLUE PE braid. and when i can find some the new Platypus 2 LB braid.
i'm not saying be slack on knots but most inshore stuff is not Game fishing standard.
choose your knots accordingly.
Chasing Barra on the other hand i do go to extremes. useing plaited guderbrod hollow leaders from 30 twist bimini's and crap like that, but thats extreme conditions you don't want to get busted off on 30-40-50 lb main..
like a said just use knots to suit the fishing your doing and keep it simple.
finer the line more raps thats the only key for line to leader .
Cheers Cloud 9