4WD and city streets

[Nathanrb4]

i just saw a story on ch10 news saying the 50% of australians want 4WDs banned on streets and that 60% thought a special licence should be required to drive one. just made me wonder where the sample population for this study must of been!
little hatch backs are great for driving around town but what happens when you`ve got a big family or wanna tow a boat or van around. i sort of agree that maybe they need to introduce so sort of special licence or training to drive a big 4WD (only after afew close calls with them around town) but what about the Rav4s, Jimnys or all the MPV getting around at the moment? my mums V8 statemsman is bigger, heavier and got a hell of alot more power than alot of 4WDs but she`s never had to do anything special to drive it around mayeb they need to think about that before complaining about 4WDs. as far as i`m concerned its not cars that cause crashes its drivers.

[Big_Kev]

The only reason current affairs shows air crap like that is because it creates conflict, and that sucks people in to watch there shit show. Just watch the show for a bit and you will see the same pattern. 8)

[megafish71]

Dead right Kev. It appears that the same narrow minded people that took our guns and fishing grounds off us also want to take away our 4WDS. I wonder what Toyota and Nissan think about this.

Ron

[Fishin_Dan]

Plus also imagine the business that would be lost through companies like ARB, TJM, etc... I can't see them (Or the car companies) ever allowing it!

[blaze]

I reckon half the people in Smithton would be walking if they banned 4x4's
cheers
blaze
ps watch the rego rise though

[Glug]

The big car companies are already running scared because of the flack they have been catching over 4WDs and the push for better public transport, that is why independant suspension is appearing across the 4WD market.(more stability on road, more car like) But, the negative publicity is also helping car companies to sell more soft roaders as the trend for "bigger is safer" is helping to turn them into family cars. And this means bigger profits for the car companies, so the whingers are actualy losing as more medium plus sized cars flood the markets because of them pointing out bigger cars are safer to carry kids in. Maybe the whingers work for the car companies?

The saddest part is, the people who value their independance most are hit the hardest every time by misguided fools that need to get a life, instead of trying to run other peoples.

[CHRIS_aka_GWH]

maybe they need to introduce so sort of special licence or training to drive a big 4WD

lets test 'em all in a Landy Series 3 that'll sort the men from the boys, or should I say the deaf, Popeye armed, oil smelling studmeisters ....

chris

i long to brag about causing a "close call" sighhhhhh :-/

[nomad]

I have owned 4 wheel drives for over 20 years, and I have got to tell you I have NEVER heard so much BULLSHIT about 4 wheel drives, as I have heard over the past couple of years. I really cant believe what I am reading and hearing. Four wheel drive owners,-- just keep quiet, and let these IDIOTS, in their little fantasy world, (who have nothing better to do ) enjoy their little moment of notoriaty. Maybe, if they bought a four wheel drive, and went and discovered how good OUR country really is ( off the beaten track ) they would stop their bloody complaining. OK, accidents happen, No one likes ANY accidents. I dont want them to happen as much as the next person, BUT THEY DO !!!!!! keep your eyes open, and be carefull. This is the greatest country on Earth, with FREEDOM second to none. Lets ALL enjoy it while we can. Life really IS too short. !!!!!!!!!

[cooky]

do-gooding wankers as far as I'm concerned.

I'm young and have owned sports cars, sedans, and 3 four wheel drives. I really can't see much difference - in fact I really think I'm safer in the 4x4's (visibility, speed, etc).

They talk about roll overs and increased breaking distance - if I haven't rolled yet - then a 4x4 is bloody hard to roll. Most 4x4 drivers care about their vehicle and they usually have grippy tires and are Road worthy - I think I can outbreak a 1976 Falcon with baldy tires.

I'm getting very sick of this country listening to these freaks. We as close to a communist country as can be - with rules for everything....

Try finding a camping ground these days where you can light a REAL fire. Where can you ride motorbikes offroad?

Soon we'll have to catch fish using a net only and be required to feed and massage it before we place it back in the water.

[Dug]

I watch volvo driving soccer mums trying to do a 47 point turn in our street in big 4wd's they have no idea just a simple 4wd driving test ( just drive over a moderately difficult track then reverse back down it to pass) to see that people can handle what they are driving would solve 90% of the problem.

[Dug]

lets test 'em all in a Landy Series 3 that'll sort the men from the boys,

chris

Could not agree more chris if you drive a 4wd then drive one! not just a Tourak Tractor.

[hotsy]

I agree that this talk of a special licence for 4 x 4 is crazy. I have been a cop for over 30 years and would think that a class of licence for people to tow trailers, which basically are an articulated vehicle, would be more appropriate. How often do we see someone at the ramp or towing a camper who obviously have no idea of how to reverse, park, overtake with caution etc.?
hotsy

[mackmauler]

As an experienced series 3 driver, i still get that cold sweat on some roundabouts ::) ;D

[Maria]

The hype over banning 4WD's is not about the genuine 4WD enthusiast. I believe it is targeted at the volvo driving soccer mums, the Tourak Taxis, the "luxury" 4WD's for e.g BMW, Lexus etc that will never see even a gravel driveway. These are the dangerous ones as they often have someone behind the wheel who is driving the vehicle purely for image purpose, without one iota of 4WD understanding. The true 4WD'ers who know what their vehicle is, how to operate it safely and effectively are generally not the ones to be concerned about. That's my opinion anyway.

Ben

[Glug]

I had a Volvo driving mum reverse into me at an intersection, she got reverse instead of drive and came back like a rocket. trying to make a quick dive in between cars on the highway. Then she wrote out all her particulars and mine down on a piece of paper. She tore the paper in half and gave me her details, after I read them she said "hold on I will give you my business number" she wrote the number down folded the paper and gave it to me back. She then said "sorry I have to rush" jumped in her car and took off. When I got back in my car and looked at the paper she had swapped it for my own details. I tried chasing her but she had shot up some bush track some where and disapeared. I didn't even have her number, sucked in big time $6000 worth of damage. She would be a real killer in 4WD but she would be smart enough to pass a special test thats for sure.

I taught drivers at one time and some you can get them passed a test but at the same time there is no way you would ever pass them. They are accidents waiting to happen and should not be allowed on the road at all. I refused to teach one person but he passed his test with another school, 2 weeks after passing his test he killed a young guy on a cycle.

[cooky]

I have to agree with BEN. I truely believe that over the last 6 yrs or more of 4x4 ownership I've become a much better (skilled) driver. If you don't learn the limits of your vehicle, where various parts of your 4x4 extend to, etc in slippery, tight, scary 4x4 tracks - then you'd better get used to visiting the panel shop regularly (or the hospital).

[Fisheasy]

Don't worry about the 4WD drivers, try driving around Sunnybank any given day of the week. I almost get collected every time I drive through the place. I'm not racist, believe me, but bloody hell, where do Asian drivers get their licences????? Same place as Volvo drivers?????? ::)

[cooky]

i've driven in ASIA and CHAOS, but suprisingly safe (ish). I think all the crap drivers are sent here as punishment.

Asians have to learn to sit back and relax - it really isn't safe with your chin on the steering wheel

[SeaHunt]

Yep more sensationalising by the media.
What crap , if 50% want them banned then 50% don't want them banned.
IF I did a survey amonst young people about banning people over 70 from driving I could probably get to 80 or 90 percent.
Similarly with Asian drivers, Volvo drivers, trucks any bloody minority you care to mention. Drive anything you want.
They only half valid point they make is that if a predestrian is hit by one, they have a lesser chance of survival. But I say if you are hit by a bus or truck or train, you have less chance again, why are they not talking about banninng them?
Have times changed that much , when I was a kid I was taught to watch out for cars and only cross a road when it is safe. It used to be that if you were hit by a car it was most likely your own fault ( a few exceptions of course). Nowadays it seems the onus is on the driver. You know the "Look out, Look out there are children about" type campaigns.
Is anyone telling the kids to watch where they are going??
Maybe the world would be a safer place if people who got hit by cars through their own stupidity did NOT survive, and therefore were not able to pass their genes on to another generation of idiots. ???

[cooky]

good point Seahunt. Maybe by wiping these people out you get POINTS - sort of like a computer game, but a way of earning your license points back.

[Glug]

Yep more sensationalising by the media.
What crap , if 50% want them banned then 50% don't want them banned.


Over 50% of people wanted steam trains banned when they started going faster than horses and cars had to have some one with a red flag walking in front of them. It didn't stop the trains and cars started going that fast they ran over all the guys with the red flags. The shouting has just given the car manufactures the excuse to introduce new technologies that make more money for them. The All Wheel Drive, (AWDs) are more expensive to buy and as all the bush tracks are being made into super highways or closed, ground clearance is not an issue. Things are changing guys, they always have and always will.

Land closure started in the 1600's when lots of common land became private property and the ordinary guys lost their right to use it. The same is happening now but for diffferent reasons.

Lots of private owners and lease holders have had to close off their land because 4WD drivers can and will sue them if they damage their fourby or hurt themselves on their properties. Liability insurance reflects this trend as people continue to sue and get rewarded for what in some cases is there own stupidity. This is why roads are improving in national parks, giving more access to more people is a bonus for governments to crow about.

Sea Hunt is also right about the stupid genes as more people gain access. More people with stupid genes gain access also and do stupid things, like shooting bulls balls off, knocking down lines of fence posts, the list goes on and on. However that allows the control freaks to inflict more controls on Mr and Mrs Average. Because of this people with stupid genes have become a protected species, they are not caught, caged or shot. Instead every one is restricted except those with stupid genes who go on to greater feats of stupidity whilst breeding copiously.

Unless stupid genes are taken off the protected species list, they will continue to spread into the far corners of the world and every millimeter of land, air and sea will be heavily controlled. The time has come Ladies and Gentlemen to rid our selves of stupid genes go forth and exterminate. ER; just a minute while I have a gene check ;D

[cooky]

Sea Hunt is also right about the stupid genes as more people gain access. More people with stupid genes gain access also and do stupid things, like shooting bulls balls off, knocking down lines of fence posts, the list goes on and on. However that allows the control freaks to inflict more controls on Mr and Mrs Average. Because of this people with stupid genes have become a protected species, they are not caught, caged or shot. Instead every one is restricted except those with stupid genes who go on to greater feats of stupidity whilst breeding copiously


VERY WELL SAID - That should be made into an election speech

[nomad]

Good on you Glug, I couldnt agree with you more. PREDICTION------ In years to come, 4 wheel drives will be locked up in a central SAFE AREAS, under STRICT, 24 HOUR, ARMED GUARD locations, out of the Suburban areas, which will have to be picked up DIRECTLY before going bush. (THERE IS NO NEED FOR 4 WHEEL DRIVES IN THE CITY, OR SUBURBIA,) ---- Does this ring a bell ????????.

[Glug]

(THERE IS NO NEED FOR 4 WHEEL DRIVES IN THE CITY, OR SUBURBIA,) ---- Does this ring a bell ????????. #

Heard it before, back in the dream time some where, along with government run car systems. Instead of pink slips you don't buy your own car, you lease one from the government and when a certain milage is reached it is recycled through the government agency. This way all cars will be safe from defects and polution will be controled by only giving large cars to large families. 4WDs and other specialised vehicles will only be issued to those who can prove they need the special features. There was a clause allowing private ownership to collectors. May be about Whitlams time in the 70s ;D

[cosmo]

If they get there way and charge us extra for driving 4wd's it'll just be another cash cow for the Government. It's bazaare that they say 4wds hurt a lot more people in care accidents etc. yet youcould walk down the queen street mall late at late and get knifed and then be told you shouldn't have been on your own. ????????

[CHRIS_aka_GWH]

..., along with government run car systems. Instead of pink slips you don't buy your own car, you lease one from the government and when a certain milage is reached it is recycled through the government agency. This way all cars will be safe from defects and polution will be controled by only giving large cars to large families. #4WDs and other specialised vehicles will only be issued to those who can prove they need the special features. There was a clause allowing private ownership to collectors. #.... ;D


"Oh Brave New World that has such wonders in it .. "
Aldous Huxley 1932

but on the highways errr beaches, a new breed of warriors were born ...

"Ya wanna get outa here - ya talk to me !"

[Maverick79]

A few questions for thought

If you ban all 4WDs from city streets wont that make 2wds dangerous and we should ban them

If you are worried about the weight lets have a look at prestige cars and touring cars most are as heavy if not heavier!!

I can bet that the ration of cars vs 4wd's crashes are less even if you had equal of both.

How many 4wd's are owned by the more mature rather than young fools

Are these vehicals worth more than the average 2wd ie buying running costs etc......people normaly look after them more and therfore are more responible

[notts_so]

Send all new 4wd owners (eg soccer mums) into a under ground mine for a monthto pass the test if they dont hit the wall or 50 ton of truck let alone each other then let them on the road they will have a hole new respect for what their driving and how they drive it

[Sportfish_5]

What mine do you work at notts_so ?

Cheers

Greg

[ol_bob]

cant be to much wrong with the country if thats all they got for a story......what about the real issues ...... they dont get ratings

[nomad]

ol_bob, What do you mean by that comment ??

[ol_bob]

i mean is obviously they are pretty hard up for a story hows about takling the real issues like starving children and child molesters and the taxman for a start. there not gettin my 4x4..... and besides as kev said they just do it for a shit stir.... i have my views on 4x4 in the city to a point there right....but not all of us can afford 6 cars and take the kids to the snow fields of scandanavia every six months..... hope this clarifys my statement a bit

[mini696]

The problem in a lot of peoples minds is they are "raw data orientated" when it comes to statistics about these things. There are more 4wds on the roads so of course there will be more problems involving them. It doesn't necessarly mean the rate of 4wd accidents is increasing.

I hate it how shows like TT, ACA and others use numbers to prove a point, without actually telling the whole truth.

[Jeremy87]

I have recently passed my license and one of the first things i noticed driving to and from school was the soccer mums in big landcruisers oblivious to other drivers. They park where ever they want (ie no parking zones) obstructing the vision of other road users. What we need to focus on is how many children will be hit due to other road users not seeing them for this reason. 4wd's will always end up better off in low speed accidents and for this reason they are purchased by people in suburbia. Drivers with this knowledge hold a certain arrogance. 4wd's are also more prone to rolling in high speed manuevers and due to extra weight often take longer to stop. My point is if you live in the bush then 4wds are fine, if you live in suburbia and you go camping or need them to tow and need 4wd's thats fine. but if your just driving kids to school and back in them then your causing a problem.

[Glug]

Your right to a point Jeremy, rolling depends on the centre of gravity some small cars will roll before some 4WDs because their c/g is higher than the 4WD. 4WDs coming off better depends on their construction and mass. A small 4WD with car type body will possibly come off worse when hitting a big sedan. The Land cruiser will come of better than most cars at high or low speeds even though the safety rating is better on the small car. The mums choose these vehicles to protect their children from idiots driving smaller cars. Not all mums are bad drivers and you still get the idiot mums in small cars. The problem comes when some idiot is driving to fast or talking on their mobile instead of watching the road and they run into another idiot doing some thing wrong or some inocent by stander.

Stopping distance is another issue, again you can not say 4WDs take longer to stop than small cars, this has been proved time and time again by the idiot small car drivers who have ran into the backs of 4WDs. Granted the fouby again comes off best which proves the mums trying to protect their kids are right in choosing fourbies. The answer here is obvious every one should drive a big fourby for safety but lots of people are intimidated by the thoughts of driving these monsters. Here is the crux of the matter; they are also intimidated by other people driving them so attack fourbies verbaly.

Idiots drive small cars and 4WDs they both kill people it is not the type of vehicle that makes the difference it is the driver.

[PinHead]

Current affairs shows use only FFF stories...Fast Bucks, Fats & Freaks..this comes under the Freaks category...Freaks that whinge about everything...no point worrying about it cos it will never eventuate into anything.

[Sportfish_5]

Whats more dangerous ?

Soccermum driving the landcruiser to and from school/shops or 18-19 year old girl driving a hyundi excel ?? Spend a bit of time driving around and just watch these young girls speeding and their aggressive driving carry on.

Its the drivers that are the problem not the cars.

[devil]

I agree this is a load of B/S, if 4x4s are to be banned that means all other larger transport should be banned as well cargo vans, minibuses, tow trucks the list goes on & on why not also ban any car that can go faster than the speed limit (speed kills more people than 4x4s) sounds like just another revenue raiser for the govt, RTA, Ins companies...

[Big_Kev]

Harold Scrubey, is the head of the Pedestrian Council of Australia.
He beats this stuff along all the time to give justification to his minority faction.
He quotes figures from other countries to give his arguement basis.
He always fails to mention that in only around 5 percent of pedestrian incidents is the driver found to be at fault. And the percentage of that being 4x4 related is even smaller.
Pedestrians that are involved do not have to be tested for alcohol only the driver of the vehicle.
Noone wants to see anyone get hurt by being hit by a car, but it seems money would be better spent on education programs and walkways for pedestrians.

[cooky]

speed kills more people than 4x4s
I'm sure speed does, but that's a whole new story. The bullsh*t over SPEED being the root of all evil is another sensationalist story pushed by the government and police alike as an excuse for a variety of things: speeding fines, poor condition of roads, road signage, etc...

Sure we;ve got to keep getting chasing answers to people dying, but at some stage we've just got to except that PEOPLE ARE GOING TO DIE.

The road is a dangerous place - cars kill very easily - if you choose to drive on the road - be aware of the risks - drive defensively - be aware of your surroundings - look ahead...etc, etc

It's pretty simple that excessive speed occassionally kills - so do people going too slow - so do kangaroos. ???

[CHRIS_aka_GWH]

I'm sure speed does, but that's a whole new story. The bullsh*t over SPEED being the root of all evil is another sensationalist story pushed by the government and police alike as an excuse for a variety of things: #speeding fines, poor condition of roads, road signage, etc...

Sure we;ve got to keep getting chasing answers to people dying, but at some stage we've just got to except that PEOPLE ARE GOING TO DIE.

The road is a dangerous place - cars kill very easily - if you choose to drive on the road - be aware of the risks - drive defensively - be aware of your surroundings - look ahead...etc, etc

It's pretty simple that excessive speed occassionally kills - so do people going too slow - so do kangaroos. ???

you are probably a rational, clear thinking, likeable person cooky - what happened with that piece of crap.

The laws of physics defy your comments. Without momentum, a car, signage or a kangaroo WILL NOT KILL YOU - unless you swallow them.

What gives a car momentum - the guy behind the wheel.

Remove the guy - the car stands still.

Simple.

I was passed doing 75km/h in yesterdays storm by a grey falcon, with no lights on sitting two cars length behind the car in front, & then weaving through the traffic doing at least 90km/h with visibility below 50m.

I do not have to accept that. I do not regard the risk that fool put my family at as acceptable - DO YOU!

I am aware of it & I drive slower, more cautiously - is your arguement that this is causing accidents?



chris.