Bass & Barra. Do they mix?

[Fitzy]

AS was discussed on another chatboard recently, the qustion of wether bass & barra will mix in public dams. Who cares! All stocked/predator fish eat each other no matter what species they are, the question should be, why not have a couple of barra lakes in SE Qld. If there is something to really worry over (fish eating each other) then we would have monoculture fisheries. To my knowlege there is only one example of this being done; at Atkinsons Lagoon where Saratoga are the only fish stocked. Surely it should be up to the various Fish Management Committees that were formed at the request of the Qld Govt to do exaclty that, manage the fishery.?! ??? Now the same govt seems reluctant to allow a naturally occuring species in that system (Yes Barra were once in the Brisbane River) to be stocked when they still allow the translocation of yellowbelly, silver perch, saratoga and Mary river Cod and do little or nothing about the now breeding, intorduced, pest populations of banded grunter, spangled perch, tilapia & lungfish. That's a hard bite to swallow. What's good for the goose..............
I'm not advocating stocking bass & barra in the Murray/Darling catchment, nor do I think we should continue to stock Yellowbelly & silver perch east of the great divide (except for Fitroy strain Yellowbelly in that system)
I noted that a "vote of No Confidence" in one fisheries manager over the banning of stocking saratoga out side its natural range a few years ago by a major group got some results, perhaps that same extreme measures need to be undertaken to get the message across that Barra are one highly sought species for some SE Qld impoundments.

That's my bit anyways

What do you recon?????

Fitzy..

[Brett_Finger]

Fitzy,
were do we vote?
i am a member of two stocking groups in QLD,does this give me a vote?
is there a way to start a poll as to peoples feeling reguarding these stockings?
or is there a e-mail addy that we can send a letter of our thoughts to?
Hookin, Brett.

[Fitzy]

I recon just post your thoughts on the subject here for all to see. For or aganist it matters not.

So what does everyone else think, would you like to see a couple of barra lakes in SE Qld? :-/

[imported_admin]

I for one think there should be Barra here in SEQ.

My wife and I recently went to Darwin just so we could go Barra fishing. We spent about $5000 in Airfares, fishing guides, car hire, motel, etc, etc. Sadly none of this went into the QLD economy.

Barra fishing is a big money earner for the Northern Territory tourism industry, why doesn't QLD tourism get behind the idea for down here.

I am sure there would be pleanty of people in SEQ that would love to be able go Bara fishing without having to spend a small fortune to do it. Let alone the thousands of International tourists that would love to catch a Barra while they are here in Sunny SEQ.

Trip photos at - http://www.ausfish.com.au/darwintrip/

Steve

[Fitzy]

I for one think there should be Barra here in SEQ.

My wife and I recently went to Darwin just so we could go Barra fishing. We spent about $5000 in Airfares, fishing guides, car hire, motel, etc, etc. Sadly none of this went into the QLD economy.

Barra fishing is a big money earner for the Northern Territory tourism industry, why doesn't QLD tourism get behind the idea for down here.

I am sure there would be pleanty of people in SEQ that would love to be able go Bara fishing without having to spend a small fortune to do it. Let alone the thousands of International tourists that would love to catch a Barra while they are here in Sunny SEQ.

Trip photos at - #http://www.ausfish.com.au/darwintrip/

Steve



Another fine example of folks spending good bucks to get barra is the recent charter trip we did into Shoalwater Bay (Central Qld). 6 Clients from Victoria were more than happy to fly in & stay on the 65 foot mother ship for 5 days, just to get a barra. We got them onto over 100 fish (mixed species)every day. Shoalwater is about as remote as you can get on the Qld coast. If there were easier places to access then there would be more of it happening. The Qld ecconomy would be the winner.

[Brett_Finger]

I personally feel that after seeing the monies spent by the tourist up here in cairns on fishing guides in this area alone is INSANE!!!
imagine all the thousands of tourists that come to the gold coast each year, and the millions that is spent.

the monies to be made just from the japanise tourist alone would be astranomical!!

as the majority of clients for the guides are from japan up here in cairns, and during the season(and out) thay are nearly always booked by people wanting to catch a BARRA!!! :) :) :)Hookin, Brett

[Katrina]

;) Bring it on! How do we make this happen soon? Can't happen soon enough! Fishing in South East Queensland needs all the help it can get. More fish = more fun! Barra = lots more fun! Fitzy, any ideas on how to get this happening for real and soon. Some of these dams could definitely handle more stocking, and why not Barra!!! Yeah!

[Fitzy]

;) Bring it on! #How do we make this happen soon? #Can't happen soon enough! #Fishing in South East Queensland needs all the help it can get. #More fish = more fun! #Barra = lots more fun! #Fitzy, any ideas on how to get this happening for real and soon. #Some of these dams could definitely handle more stocking, and why not Barra!!! Yeah!

Hi Katrina,
Stay tuned, the Ausfish Crew are working on an on-line poll for things like this.
Until then you could send a letter or e-mail to our various fishing representative groups eg FFSAQ ffsaq@fuzion.com.au or Sunfish sunfish@modemss.brisnet.org.au with your thoughts either way. Could also do the same with our fisheries policy makers KerbyB@prose.dpi.qld.gov.au & SEQWC jwatson@seqwco.com.au .
Certainly can't hurt, the more noise the better.
Cheers,

Fitzy..
I'm gonna cop it now! ;D

[Luke]

Fitzy,
Barra please with two hands in the air-just one question. Can Barra cope with the colder weather we can get down here.The reason I ask this is I've been fishing at Glassy's Fishing World at Luscombe a few times and often see barra floating belly up-Glassy say's it's from the cold weather. I'm all for it but would they have to be stocked annually with a whole new lot and if so wouldn't the costs be ginourmous? Or simply could they cope? I don't know so I'm asking.
Cheers Luke

[Fitzy]

Hi Luke,
The temp can go down in shallow type dams as at Glassys. You also need to consider that those fish are getting caught & released, the mortality rate is going to be fairly high amoung fish caught by the inexperienced anglers that tend to seek out places like Glassys.
Lowest temps recorded at the bottom of the outlet at Somerset is 20 degrees C. Plenty enough for barra. ;)
Really, comparing small farm type dams to the large impoundment/lakes is chalk & cheese really. Also a massive food source in the form of bony bream, snub nosed gar, tilapia, spangled perch, banded grunter, shrimp, crayfish & a multitude of gudgeons in these big lakes is often not on offer in small dams.
Suppose we'll never know if we don't a serious trial is not done. ???

Cheers,

Fitzy..

[Luke]

Fitzy,
Too true ,they get a caning in there and they are small confinements. Couldn't help myself - had to try fly and get a basic lesson plus the lure of the barra
Cheers Luke

[Fitzy]

Hi Luke.
The Barra at Glassys are in shallow farm type dams that suffer from more of a temperature drop at night than the large, deep impoundments/lakes such as Somerset. It should also be remembered that the fish at Glassys, by its very nature, are often caught & will suffer from (often) inexperienced handling from those that seek out this type of fishing.
There is also a limited food source in those small dams where as Somerset has bony bream, tilapia, banded grunter, snub nosed gar, spangled perch, shrimp, crayfish & a multitude of gudgeons species for fish to eat, chalk & cheese really.
There is a few farm dams close to Wivenhoe that have had barra in them for several years now for nil loss, so I think your answer could lie in poor handling of fish at Glassys for any deaths.
Minimum temps recorded at water outlet at the bottom of Somerset are 20 degrees Celcius (info from SEQWCorp), easily enough for barra to survive & survive well.
Hope that helps,

Fitzy..

[Brett_Finger]

Luke,
Mate be carefull with the search for Barra ;D
please be advised this is a highly pleasureable passtime but can cause sever stress and agrovation >:(
Fitzy and i have had sessions on impoundments were we have been blown away time and time again by Barra over the magic 50lb mark!!!!!
a pleasent but steessful way to spend the day :o
on the subject of the previous post by Fitzy, it is extreamealy interisting to read about the water temps in the impoundment,as i have expericend with the southen stains of Barra that thay will activaly feed in 20deg water!!
me thinks some Deeeep sinking flys would be INSANE FUN on Big Barra deep in the impoundments ;D ;D ;D
Hookin, Brett

[Luke]

Gday Fitzy and Brett,
Learning something new always with fishing whis is a beaut thing. Can you tell me is it a wivestale about migratory birds taking eggs on there feet and depositing them in different catchments.If it's true wouldn't it be possible for these birds coming down from the North and heading inland to reach our SE QLD dams.
Cheers Luke

[Fitzy]

Luke,
Mate be carefull with the search for Barra ;D
please be advised this is a highly pleasureable passtime but can cause sever stress and agrovation >:(
Fitzy and i have had sessions on impoundments were we have been blown away time and time again by Barra over the magic 50lb mark!!!!!
a pleasent but steessful way to spend the day :o
on the subject of the previous post by Fitzy, it is extreamealy interisting to read about the water temps in the impoundment,as i have expericend with the southen stains of Barra that thay will activaly feed in 20deg water!!
me thinks some Deeeep sinking flys would be INSANE FUN on Big Barra deep in the impoundments ;D ;D ;D
Hookin, Brett

Hi Brett,
These southen strain barra I have in the tank here at home are now 35-40 cm long (not bad in a few months eh? :D) & this afternoon they have eaten a dozen live gold fish & half a packet of frozen white bait, all this while the water temp is 13 degrees C. Now I gave to grin #;D when so called experts recon they can't even live at this temp & I've got them here actively feeding!
Also good to note that the 32 cm bass in the tank with them is bashing the hell out of the 2 bigger barra that were in there long before the bass. What was all that about folks worrying about their bass getting eaten by barra,,, ppphhhhttttttt. Turn it up!!! All the fish we stock in lakes are predators, & by thier very nature they will eat other fish if given the chance (derrrrr ::) ), why the concern about barra?? Just another excuse I recon. >:( Not a thing said about the Cod that actively feeding on schools of bass at Somerset ( :o shock!!!! Yes folks it happens #:o) 25 cm bass in the guts of a 6 kg MR Cod. It was caught in open water 40 feet off the bottom in the middle of a school of bass!
Spose we'll just keep trying to get around this anti-barra attitude & the endless excuses. They might change thier tune if they actually went to Awoonga, Faust, Tinaroo or Monduran & got smoked by a few 50 pounders!!! They best take a pace-maker with em too! LOL #;D

Fitzy..

PS- Watch the nasty e-mails roll in now! ;D

[Luke]

Fitzy,
I like your resourcefulness in utilising another demise for the old goldfish. Barra might help with our carp problem aswell.
Luke

[WHITTO]

:DG'Day Gary, Some weeks ago I made mention about a Barra/Saratoga trial in Atkinson, would that concept be possible or is Atkinson to small an impoundment to cater for both species ???. I would be interested in your thoughts or anyone's thoughts on this one ;D, you seemed to be proving the so called experts wrong on the temperature theory and the Barra/Bass combination. I can only live in hope #::) One day we maybe lucky. #Cheers #Whitto 8)

[Fitzy]

:DG'Day Gary, Some weeks ago I made mention about a Barra/Saratoga trial in Atkinson, would that concept be possible or is Atkinson to small an impoundment to cater for both species ???. I would be interested in your thoughts or anyone's thoughts on this one ;D, you seemed to be proving the so called experts wrong on the temperature theory and the Barra/Bass combination. I can only live in hope #::) One day we maybe lucky. #Cheers #Whitto 8)

Hi Whitto,
Somerset seems to be the prefered location for a trial (if any) on stocking southen barra in SE Qld. Personally I think the shallow water of Atkinsons may not be as good for barra as Somerset or Wivenhoe (I have no info on minimum water temps there), but we will certainly consider it if a trial at Somerset proves successful enough & of course get permission from the bean counter to do so (this is the hardest part of all).
Also good to note that there is no bass/yellas/silvers in Atkinsons Lagoon (never will be any of these) so the issue of one eating the other does not apply there, saratoga are not usually found in the same areas as the perches. 8) Atkinsons does have a good food source in spangled perch & bony bream that at present is only eaten by some BIG eels :o & the few saratoga we've stocked there to date.
Spose it wont be long before redclaw find their way there either, usually follow soon after folks start fishing at a place (live bait). But I hope not.
Cheers,

Fitzy..

[Brett_Finger]

Fitzy,
mate i know you won't let afew e-mails(no doubt annom) annoy you!
it's great to have someone like yourelf in there battling for the many!!"
but it's hard when the core of "GooD Ol Boys" have the upper hand with numbers,cronieism i think it's called >:(
but keep the preasure on mate as the stocking groups around are getting sick of these preastoic ideas that keep getting tabled by this mob.
sooner rather than later the vote will swing towards the thoughts of the many>
but like GST it won't matter what the people that vote these clowns in think, it'll come down to the usual greaseing of the plams ;D
Hookin, Brett Finger.

[Alf_Hogan]

Hey Fitzy
I sympathise with your views. However we are still learning lots about barra in dams, even after 16 years! I'd suggest barra might change your bass fisheries from great to very occasional, which unfortunately seems to have happened to the sooties in Tinaroo. They are still there, and they are still being stocked, but don't appear to swim out in the open like they used to pre barra. The sooty fishing has also dropped off in Koombooloomba, since barra were stocked. Coincidence? It will be interesting to see what happens to the sooties in Peter Faust, Eungella etc once the old big ones thin out. I'd say bass would head for cover too. Time will tell, but the choice is shaping up to be barra and not much else, or reasonable fisheries for bass, yellowbelly, saratoga, sooties, etc. Believe it or not, but barra fishing can get boring, just like marlin fishing - long time between bites! I'd suggest all those who want barra in the southern dams try fishing in the existing barra dams first. You could also push DPI to find out what is happening to the sooty vs barra populations in dams. Make an informed choice then, based on more than wishful thinking.
My personal opinion is jacks would be a slightly safer bet with bass, if you want a more glamorous species, although we don't know much about them in dams either, apart from good survival and growth after 3 years.
The other problem you would have down there is the spillways. Any barra over 3kg would be killed.
Cheers, Alf.

[Fitzy]

Hi Alf,
Mate its great to get some input from you on this topic, your oppinion holds great sway amoung the fish stocking fraternity.
Mate can I quote you on the "The other problem you would have down there is the spillways. Any barra over 3kg would be killed."

That's the sort of thing we would like to see happen to any escapees, will make our task of getting southern barra in southen lakes easier.
Alf the only trial of barra & bass together in decent sized lakes is at Monduran & Lenthalls (not really a big lake), both lakes are still dominated by bass captures even after several years of barra stocking. ??? I fully understand what you are saying re barra Vs sooties, but having fished extensively for both bass & sooties both in wild & lake situations I can say they are not very similar in habit & are generally found in differing locations in general terms alot of the time. For example, Somerset is a prime fishery for open, mid-water schools of bass, often 30-50 feet down &/or 30 - 50 feet off the bottom at any time. I'm yet to see many lake sooties or barra in these locations.
You are right Alf, we are learning more about barra (& all our other stocked fish for that matter) all the time, as part of that learning I/we feel a limited trial is needed to see what will happen. The precautionary principle need not be applied to everything, "suck it and see" has done the job at times too. The benefit to the community should also be considered as well.
Nobody has considered the fact that any particular stocking group may not want to stock bass any longer if barra are available, if they don't co-exist. Surely it should be their decision on whether to do this or not. Take the autonomy away from stocking groups & they'll fold quicker that Bible at a KKK meeting.
Barra survivability is not an issue as the historical water temps have shown, now the argument of one fish eating another is mooted. Fair enough too, but if this is applied to all other fisheries would we not have monoculture lakes? All fish we stock are predators & they will all eat anything that is available & catchable & in the right place.
Cod eat everything & anything, but no outcry against them, hmmmmm, I'll get back to that later.....
I can tell you that SWFSA (Somerset/Wivenhoe group) are compiling a submission for a TRIAL stocking of 10 000 barra/year for 3-5 years & then stop stocking for the same period to evaluate. Monitor catches, stomach content ananlysis etc to see what impact if any the barra have. It is SWFSA's hard earned $$$ that has created the fishery & no SIP money will be utilised for barra fingerling purchase.
"Try fishing in a barra dam first"? Been there done that mate. Done Awoonga, Monduran, Lenthalls, Callide & Faust & got barra in all of em, that enough of a lake barra apprenticeship? Also fished scores of bass, cod, sara, sooty, golden, redfin, trout lakes too & for mine, barra are the best fun.
There's also the little thing about opposition to barra in the SE for the simple reason that the Barra Buck is a jealously guarded thing & "those bloody southerners want a slice if it". To those with this poor view I would say, "afraid if a little competition?"
Could rattle on for yonks with pros & cons Alf. I'm told you've been given a copy of the points that we've raised on the issue. You support for a limited trial in Somerset or Wivenhoe would be very much appreciated. :D

Cheers,

Garry Fitzgerald

[Brett_Finger]

Fitzy,
mate i agree it's great to have people with the credits of Mr hogan on this board,also i will have to say the remark that you have made about the "Barra Dollar" kept out the south seems to make sence!!
it has to change soon as the preasure of the general public is getting to Strong and loud to ignore >:(
so as with the many others watching these posts with great intrest i say now i totally support the trial stocking of barra in the southen impoundments!!
for those people wishing to target barra, no need to go all the way to the Northen impoundments just head to Monduran Dam just 3 1/2 hours north of Brissy or go another hour up the road to Awonga Dam just outside of Gladstone!! bouth these impoundments are well worth a look as thay hold good Barra,!!!
Hookin, Brett.

[Fitzy]

Hi Brett,
Now that the "cone of silence" on this barra buck has been shattered (yes we've been aware of it for yonks), the opponents may well be more open with the hidden agendas.
I am perplexed on one thing though....................
If barra are such a threat to all other fish species, why stock em at all??? The answer is that they are a great fish for sport & on the table. Their growth rates and survivability are exceptional, fingerlings are cheeper in comparison to bass, cod (if any ever become available ::) ) & saratoga and will undoubtedly be cheeper than jacks, big eye trevs or Junglies ever will be. Also more consistent supply from hatcheries than bass.
Wh not try to get the best value from your limited $$$?
On average Somerset & Wivenhoe recieve a major flood event every 7 years, bass etc haven't reached their potential size in this time and many may well go AWOL, but barra would certainly be a good size in this time frame. Some of these 12 year old bass are only just now getting around the 60 cm mark. Barra can approach this size in a fraction of that time.
It is also worth considering that as there are NO Mary River Cod available for stocking groups to purchase, there is no fish (in SEQ) that fills the role of trophy fish &/or apex predator.
We've got tilapia by the million and bass, yellas & silvers have got Buckleys of knocking off a couple of kilos of Cichlid, not to mention doble figure forkies.

There's tons more to rattle on about but I gotta get off the soap box every now & then.

Fitzy..

[Brett_Finger]

Fitzy,
a mate of mine caught a 98cm barra in peter faust dam and had the Northen Fisheries recearch team age this fish, and from memory it was around two and a half years old!!!
so in seven years in a talipa rich envoriment the grouth rates would be incredable!!!
Hookin, Brett

[Luke]

Fitzy,
been fishing for years but I would love the chance at barra.Suppose when I hear you guys talking makes me feel stupid almost like I've never fished but that'sthe joy.If I can't learnn something new everyday I may aswell not fish.Facts/Opinions doesn't matter more the better.Bring it on boys

[Cremated_Reddog]

to right there Luke. I been fishing most of my life just not the same as you guys do and I'd cut my left ear off to get a barra closer to home like SE QLD would be just grand and I'd say you'd prob have about umpteen million southerners headin there aswell.Well I know of atleast 40ppl that would trek that far for a week end of fishing from Lake Macquarie where I'm from. So to right there should be a trial.
Reddog

[Fitzy]

to right there Luke. I been fishing most of my life just not the same as you guys do and I'd cut my left ear off to get a barra closer to home like SE QLD would be just grand and I'd say you'd prob have about umpteen million southerners headin there aswell.Well I know of atleast 40ppl that would trek that far for a week end of fishing from Lake Macquarie where I'm from. So to right there should be a trial.
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # Reddog

Hi Reddog,
You indicate that you would freely travel to SE Qld if barra were on offer. A couple of Qs.
1- Would you travel to SE Qld to come bass fishing?
2- Would you travel the extra distance past Brisbane to fish at say Lenthalls Dam (3.5 hours), Monduran (4.5 hours) or Awoonga (6 hours), or is this too far?
I've had it suggested to me that if any longer than a 3-4 hour drive to get to barra country, folks would not bother for a weekend trip & thus save thier time & $$$ to do a week in the Territory.

Nobody is suggesting open slather (seems to be what some are worried about) stocking of barra in any SE Qld lake. A trial is suggested with limited numbers for 3-5 years with continued monitoring & then evaluate fishery. If successful, continue, if not successful, stop.

Hope to see you getting onto a few barra at Somerset sometime soon.

Fitzy..

[Cremated_Reddog]

Hiya Fitzy, mate I would freely travel up there to help put the things in the water even if it meant I couldn't fish for em for yrs. I have never been freshwater fishing b4 but am very keen to try it and if it means waiting to get barra then so it be then.I would prob go that far to get bass but would prefer barra.
1.Q. as to weather I waould travel that far for bass.
.A. I would travell any distance to do any fishing but would prefer to have barra in a more accessable location rather than going to the territory. yes I would travell the 41/2 to 5hrs past bris to catch em. hell it is only 81/2hrs to bris from my house so another couple is not a prob. Awoonga dam would prob be the furthest we would go to without taking a week or. these places are what we would call nice weekend trips away from the hell hole down here...



ps. fitzy. if you want a deckie I'll gladly pack my shit and move on up.. ;D

[Alf_Hogan]

Hi Fitzy
As I said before, I'm sympathetic to your desire for a barra fishery down there, but I'd be looking at other options, eg jacks and/or trevally. I certainly wouldn't be worried about competition between dams for the "barra dollar", as I'm sure each dam would have something unique to offer (Tinaroo the biggest, Awoonga the most, Faust the most reliable, and so on). My concern would be for your great bass fisheries.
As far as a "trial" goes, all a stocking of 10,000 in Somerset/Wivenhoe will tell you is a need for a lot of patience to go barra fishing. You would have to resort to nets to find them! I'd recommend a minimum of 100/ha/year (420,000 into Somerset in one hit), and I'd stock every second year, so year classes can be clearly identified. We are also developing the suspicion that barra are their own worst predators, so a wider gap between year classes may be the way to go. If you are successful in starting up a barra trial, perhaps you could test the 2 year strategy as well. The trial needs to be for 10 years.
Just for your info, we have netted and fished barra from 30m deep (on rattling spots, just like hooking a submarine!) The Mt Isa guys were also fishing for sooties in the open deep water along the old river channels in Lake Julius before the first bass was ever stocked into a dam in Qld. It may take 10 years, but I'd predict barra will change bass behaviour in impoundments. Nothing wrong with that, if that is indeed what you want.
Cheers, Alf.

[Fitzy]

Hi Alf,
Thanks again for your input. Some good ideas there to mull over.
Yes, Jacks & Trevs would be great, however I can't see jacks ever being available in enough numbers, nor cheep enough for widescale stocking anytime soon. Any updates on how things with them are progressing up there? The Gladstone fellas are hopefull for a better season on them this year.
Trevs? Well we gotta get some $$$ into some serious research on them, still a long time off.

Cheers,

GF