Getting the best use of sounder

[Burley_Boy]

Been doing all my research for aquiring a new sounder and came accross a few items that left me scratching my head. ???

My current sounder is an entry level Hummmm SX100. It can find the depth but would struggle to notice a sub in a bathtub.
I thought a new sounder like a LowranceX135 or a Matrix37X would be able to pick up a fish farting at 50fathoms and this may be true but I was also told that a Snapper has a swim bladder that the sounder won't pickup.

So how are you guys with the hot sounders using them?? Do you simply look for structure, baitfish or that big Blue Cod sitting under a bit of weed?
What should I expect my sounder to be capable of or not capable of. I mainly want to use the sounder offshore in up to 50 fathoms of water.

[FishFinger1977]

Mate as said before, get the one that offers the most pixes (resolution) also one with different frequencies (83Khz, 200Khz etc) which is pretty much the norm these days. You know the specs on the matrix 37 already, I have one also and the quadrabeam sonar is awesome but the side looking ones will be of little use at 50 fathoms they only work to about 150ft, anyway I only use the real time sonar view zoomed in to see all the little bits of detail that I would normally miss, Usually I look for bait or fish showing around structure, often you find what looks like good ground but has very little fish life around, no point fishing there. My mate Reefmaster has a colour sounder and it never fails to pick up a snapper or pearl perch or any other fish for that matter. Snapper are not made of stealth material and will show up as normal, I am told the size of the swim bladder in the fish is reflected in the showings on a colour sounder by the colour making it almost possible to tell what sort of fish are down there, how true i don't know. On the matrix the 200Khz is good for trolling to planing speeds but the 83 is better for slow speeds and deep water and as I said the 455Khz side ones are good for mainly esturary or shallow bay areas with some exceptions. New sounders have some advanced options and beginners settings so fiddle with them all and read the manual to see what you are playing with. What sort of boat do you have anyway?

[Burley_Boy]

I run a 16ft fibreglass cuddycabin.

Sounds like you'd be suggesting the Matrix as the Lowrance is only single frequency.

Ok so you pick up a snapper on a $2k colour sounder but can you see them on your Matrix37? which I assume to be 1/3 of the price? Basically I suppose I wonder how important it is to a successful fishing trip to have expensive gear??

[snappa]

burleyboy

finding structure is important
i often take good fish from these
and theres no "show" on the sounder

[bidkev]

burleyboy

finding structure is important
i often take good fish from these
and theres no "show" on the sounder



Burleyboy,

as Snappa said, structure is important. I run a Furuno 1650WF GPSSounder on split screen 50/200khz. Depending on the circumstance, I will drop one or the other and run split screen zoom or bottom lock.

Even with this 3k piece of kit, fish often do not show, especially at high speeds. The sounder definately recognises them as the alarm sounds, but nothing shows on screen.....at least nothing that can be construed as a fish......the V shape as shown in demo mode is *very* elusive. I figure this could be due to the speed of passage over the fish, not allowing a decent trace onscreen, or else the fish are that tight to the bottom that they blend in with the bottom trace.

Because of this, I rely on the audible alarm to tell me where fish are present, and on receiving this I slow and re-trace my passage to see if I can pick 'em up visually, which Iinvariably do.......catching the buggers is another matter! :-)

cheers

kev

[Jeremy]

Personally, I try to find some structure, preferably holding some bait. I don't worry too much about trying to find big fish arches, but that is partly because I am not confident in the ability of my $600 Hummingbird sounder to find and display them (or my ability to use the sounder) properly.

Jeremy

[blaze]

I have a piranah 5, i dont think it will even show an arch, has those stupid fish symbols, I think its only 160 pixials vertical, not bad for finding bottom, but seriuslly looking at a matrix 37 for the better quallity or even the cheap color navman (that has 320x 240). what ever you get I think learning to read them is the biggest factor
cheers
blaze

[Lucky_Phill]

I fished in 120mtrs of water the other day and saw ( recognised ) Pearlies hanging over a structure. I also believe I saw a school of Snapper sitting a little higher in the water table.

The structure on the bottom rose from 119 to 117mtrs. On most sounders, you will see zip !

I am using a Furuno 668 and had the zoom on 2X. Another pass over this spot with the Bottom Lock ( bottom discrimination for the Lowrance boys ) on, confirmed my thoughts. The Pearlies were sitting no moree than a 1 mtr from the bottom.

The colour and size of the ' show' also made me aware that the size of the Pearlies was not going to be small, and in fact this was right. I have a report elsewhere here.

For mine, colour, heaps fo grunt, video or very high pixel count. 50 & 200mhz and a 10- 15 degree trans will see the 50 fathoms become your friend.

Phill

[stark]

Phill-

Sounds like you need to run a trainning course for us dummies. I basically use mine to make sure I don't run aground. I have a Koden CSV108 (currently in for repairs) and the screen does show fish-so what!! do I hit them with a big stick? I think there is a big difference in looking for fish whilst on the move and checking out structures like you stated in your posting.

Any thoughts in a M&G training session?

Cheers
John

[straddie]

Not going to pretend I know a lot about sounders but will tell ya what works for me.

Turn the fish ID off, especially in shallower waters it isn't worth squat. Make sure your transducer is suitable for the depth you are likely to work most.

Biggest thing is most sounders have the ability to be ranged eg set to show between 80 and 100 metres or whatever depth you want with one or two presses of the buttons. This means you have a 20 metre focus so a rise of only 2 metres will show as 10% of your screen height and not 2% which would be almost unnoticable.

This also gives you the chance to see that elusive big banana :o in the screen because on maximum settings even a 3 metre tall whale will only show as three pixels anything much smaller just won't register.

Even the cheapy's are pretty powerful little units now, if you get the best out of them you will be amazed by what they can do, and if you want to get really serious read the book :P

[sharkbait]

1. turn auto off and those fish symbols
2. max sensitivity until it clouds the screen and back it off until there are just a few dots left
3. if it has a grayline feature, match the grayline to the sensitivity ie 70% sensitivity, about 70 - 80% grayline
4. limit the range to the bottom half of the water column ie in 30m have the depth set at 20m - 40m, or 25m - 35m if looking for small rises etc.
5. everything above is a waste of time if your transducer isnt mounted well.

These are the things I've picked up from watching and listening to better fishos than I am, and my $600 sounder picks up bait and other 'stuff' to about 60m, which is about as far out as i want to go in my little boat ;D

Kris.

[straddie]

sharkbait [smiley=2thumbsup.gif]

[Burley_Boy]

Reading the manual again and even the tutorials on some of the manufacturers sites has opened my eyes to what I see and don't see even on my screen.
As far as the fish arches goes they apparently only appear as arches because a fish passes through the centre of the transducer beam giving the top of the arch while either side of the arch is slightly further away as the reading is taken at an angle from the transducer and its centre beam.
This indicates to me that the appearance of the arches will in fact be determined by the refresh rate of the sounder as well as the speed of both the fish and the boat.
I'll look forward to playing further with my new unit once I make a decision of which one. (the discussion of sounder selection is under the tackle heading)

[trevcob]

HI Burley Boy i have a Nave Man 4200 and i have been thinking about geting a better Sounder . Iam glad this discussion came up .I have been hearing all the bull from the sales reps Witch has made it hard to make a dicision so i will be watching this discussion closely.

[iank]

Mate go for the one that you can afford, as others have said pixcel count is important for a better pitcher. I use a lowrance x97 and am very happy with the results, the attached photos were taken last week, photo 1 is of a school of queenfish between 50-80cm in length, as you can see the is no deffinate arch but time useing your sounder will teach you what you are looking at ( I was lucky as I had a very good teacher)

[iank]

Photo 2 is of me jigging a 3inch plastic on a quater oz head.
The sounder is in auto and the boat is drifting .
good luck with your search.
Ian

[Burley_Boy]

Thanks Iank, thats the sort of photos I need to see. Sheezz so thats what a school of Queenfish locks like, who'd av thought! To think I can spend $1k and still not know what the hell I'm looking at! But I'm here to learn.

So you've punched up your sensitivity setting pretty high to gett all that mess at the top I assume and that streak on the left of your screen in the top image are we talking a lone predator or a bit more noise, any idea?

[Burley_Boy]

My 8yr old boy just came up to enlighten me... He said that if thats the queenfish in the picture then I must be fishing over here....and pointed far to the left!
Damn kids!

[iank]

the sounder is in auto so the senitivity is whatever the auto deceided to play at, the surface clutter is caused bu the turbulanceas the area the photos was taken in is where a fair current runs over a ledge that comes up to 10 foot from 40-50 feet. As you said the thick line could be a big queenie or someother fish cruising by. I am going out tomorrow for a look so I will take a couple of more photos of bait schools ect and post them here tomorrow for you to have a look at. Ian

[Robbo_Townsville]

Fish symbols and those elusive arches I think are pie in the sky. Had this same discussion at our M & G in Cardwell in Feb and I dont think anyone said they get an arch on the screen.

[blaze]

love the pics of the sounder in action, realy good idea with the interptation of whats happening at a given time.
you could hang a bloody fish under mine and i think it would get confused
cheers
blaze
ps
airnt the improvements coming thick and fast with sounders, getting to be value for money

[mackmauler]

Robbo, just to add to this, ill often get arches on my screen.

[blaze]

how about some pics of the arches mackmauler, i aint disbelieving but it would be nice to see some unsimulated arches, i have never seen them on mine. can definently see with the bouncing plastic how the arches form
cheers
blaze

[mackmauler]

Blaze, ill see what I can do, seriously looks just like the pics in the lowrance books at times, id be worried if you cant see arches if you know there are fish there ??? might be a good time to ask what model you are using?

Rob

[blaze]

I am on my second one now, GME, was the first one, that was old (used on the ark) but good for finding bottom and getting some idea of what it was hard/soft
I have a piranah 5 made by huminbird?, thats about 3 years old and campared to a $500 sounder today is crap.
I am about to upgrade again soon (gotta unload my L300 4x4 van first to fill that bloody grat hole in the water in a bit)
looking at matrix x27 or 37, navaman , dont want to spend any more than $7 to $800
cheers
blaze
ps
also looking for links to good reliable us sites

[iank]

No sounder photos today, wind is blowing 20-30 knts up here in sunny Darwin and looking at the weather chart is going to continue for the next couple of days. I will get out when the next change comes through later in the week and get the photos, I have allso just found out the longtails have arrived in the harbour so the trip may have a duel purpose.
Ian

[bidkev]

how about some pics of the arches mackmauler, i aint disbelieving but it would be nice to see some unsimulated arches, i have never seen them on mine. can definently see with the bouncing plastic how the arches form
cheers
blaze

Hi Blaze.

Yes, the arches are acheivable although (as I posted in an earlier report) my first "demo ones" only showed when I drifted over a pack of blind sharks showing mid-water. If anything, they showed bigger and better than the ones you see in demo mode. That one showing worked wonders for boosting my faith in the sounders ability to detect fish.

I have since seen several "positive" arches on my sounder, always at slow speed. I use my audible fish alarm for initial detection and then slow down in an attempt to acheive a "sound" visual signal.

I've never acheived an arch at anything above trolling speed and going by articles that I read either in Queensland Fishing or Bush 'n Beach (I can't remember which), this is just not possible.

I'll try and get some pics next time out.

cheers

kev

[NeilD]

Our Furuno 663 shows arches fine. They vary in shape a lot but classic arches are pretty common on large fish. I don't often get a whole school of arches however.

Neil

[Burley_Boy]

I've done a lot of homework on the sounders in the last few days and if anyone can let me know what is the most imortant of these features in actual use then I can finally take my pick.

The Matrix X37 at around $700 has plenty of grunt and the main beams are 20deg and 60deg with a screen of 640 x 320 pixels. It has all the GPS interaction that I need.

The Garmin 250 Dual beam at $529 has the same power and a 10deg and 40 deg beam but only a 320 x 320 pixel screen.
As I'm very interested in 20-50 fathoms I would see the 10deg transducer as pretty beneficial but is the screen pixels more important, both units are in the budget but which one will do the best job???

[mackmauler]

the matrix.

[MTpockets]

Having looked at both myself and if it was me choosing, I would go Matrix, looks awesome and gps ready as well...
good sheet
;D ;D

[Burley_Boy]

If the Mauler thinks that the Matrix will do the job then I humbly thank for the input and will wander off to find a supplier.
Thanks mate.

[Bundaberg_Bandit]

Hi Burley Boy,

I was checking out the Garmin 250 as well, and just out of interest you can get them at these prices from http://www.ja-gps.com.au. I just emailed him for a price, have bought some GPS stuff off him before.

FF250 single freq $450
FF250 dual freq $479
FF250 colour single $849
FF240 colour dual $879

cheers

Bundy bandit

[iank]

I have started a new thred in tackle and accessories area on reading sounders, and have put up a few photos to kick it off , the more people to post photos of their sounder pics and what they mean will be a great help for people wanting to upgrade, buy their first sounder ect. :)
Cheers Ian