12 volt tv setup

[Fish Guts]

Hi,

Thinking about setting up a small flat screen on the boat to watch dvd's / tv. what is the best setup you guys have done with tv's ect and getting televition reception, i know in the past it can be hard to get good reception away from the mainland, has there been any improvements ? what screens are most popular these days ? Is 12volt not enough power, or will it need a small genset to run ?


thanks for your input

currently have 1 house 12 volt, 2 starting 12 volts and a big deep cycle, dont know the actualy size, but its big, what size is it Finga ? and a solar panel about 125 watts on the roof which charges the deep cycle. and the engines also charge the deep cycle, house and starting batteries

cheers

fish guts

[snelly1971]

Buy a genset Fish Guts...I am sure Kerry could tell you what size you need ..LOL...

Have you looked at using a lap top with the tv adaptor.???

Mick

[cormorant]

Cheapest way is to use a digital tv USB dongle and take your laptop on board. They are cheap on ebay and work well even with small aerial supplied. That way you leave nothing on board to steal and can watch DVD if you are in crap reception area. Simple as recharge laptop via ciggy lighter adaptor or buy a small inverter. The dongles also pick up dig radio stations.

Gensets are a pain- fumes noise etc etc and a danger with 240v.

If you want 12 tv etc go to camec.com.au and there caravan site will have details of RV / 4wd ones or just buy a old laptop as it doesn't take much processing power just some ram and decent video card and don't even worry about the laptop battery condition as you won't use it??

Hint hint a laptop can be done FBT free by your employer and you can put full chartplotter and GPS through the big screen!!!! I'm sure you need that if you are a sales rep etc etc

[snelly1971]

Cheapest way is to use a digital tv USB dongle and take your laptop on board. They are cheap on ebay and work well even with small aerial supplied. That way you leave nothing on board to steal and can watch DVD if you are in crap reception area. Simpl as recharge laptop via ciggy lighter adaptor. The dongles also pick up dig radio stations.

Gensets are a pain- fumes noise etc etc and a danger with 240v.

If you want 12 tv etc go to camec.com.au and there caravan site will have details of RV / 4wd ones or just buy a old laptop as it doesn't take much processing power just some ram and decent video card and don't even worry about the laptop battery condition as you won't use it??

Hint hint a laptop can be done FBT free by your employer and you can put full chartplotter and GPS through the big screen!!!! I'm sure you need that if you are a sales rep etc etc

I agree with the set up..;D;D

But why do you say 240 v is dangerous....if it is wired and set up properly then safety is not an issue...and as for fumes ..noise ect...not much different than running an outboard...

Mick

[Hamish73]

I agree with the set up..;D;D

But why do you say 240 v is dangerous....if it is wired and set up properly then safety is not an issue...and as for fumes ..noise ect...not much different than running an outboard...

Mick

240 is always dangerous, regardless of how it's wired.
Around water, it is even more so and should be avoided if possible IMO.
A RCD (residual current detector aka safety switch) will only cut power if there is a current flow from active to earth. If the boat is wood or glass, the boat itself isnt earthed, which gives the potential for a shock to occour without the safety switch tripping. Sure, it's unlikely if everything is done properly, and no one makes a mistake, or the boat never gets a wave over the side, but help will be a long way away on the water when it does turn pear shaped.

[snelly1971]

240 is always dangerous, regardless of how it's wired.
Around water, it is even more so and should be avoided if possible IMO.
A RCD (residual current detector aka safety switch) will only cut power if there is a current flow from active to earth. If the boat is wood or glass, the boat itself isnt earthed, which gives the potential for a shock to occour without the safety switch tripping. Sure, it's unlikely if everything is done properly, and no one makes a mistake, or the boat never gets a wave over the side, but help will be a long way away on the water when it does turn pear shaped.

Well you better tell that to all the commercial fisherman so they can change to solar panels....there must be thousands of commercial boats fitted with generators and i have never heard of anyone being electricuted...

Mick

[Fish Guts]

Buy a genset Fish Guts...I am sure Kerry could tell you what size you need ..LOL...

Have you looked at using a lap top with the tv adaptor.???

Mick

Hey Mick,


Yeah have thought about using my laptop for dvd's, and finding a 12volt adapter to charge it, are these available, i never knew you could put tv through a laptop ?

how does a tv adaptor work on a lap top ?

cheers

fish guts

[Fish Guts]

so if i bought one of these dongles it sits in my usb on my laptop, it can get tv reception ? this could be a lot cheaper option.

[snelly1971]

Hey Mick,


Yeah have thought about using my laptop for dvd's, and finding a 12volt adapter to charge it, are these available, i never knew you could put tv through a laptop ?

how does a tv adaptor work on a lap top ?

cheers

fish guts

Not sure how they work..::)::)but there must be some computer geeks here on Ausfish..::)::)

Mick

[Hamish73]

Well you better tell that to all the commercial fisherman so they can change to solar panels....there must be thousands of commercial boats fitted with generators and i have never heard of anyone being electricuted...

Mick
There are risks involded with everything mick. My house doesnt even have a RCD. But water increaces the risks.
240v vs 12v is like the diesel vs petrol tradeoff. Performance vs safety.
If you have a damaged lead in your shed, unless you actually touch the conductor, you'll be ok. Add water (a wet deck is all it takes) and you might not be so lucky. I would say that on a commercial vessel 240v is a must. But if a TV is all you need 240v for, it's not worth the risk IMO.

[Yapoon]

I have a digital USB TV adapter purchased from Digital Now http://www.digitalnow.com.au/dvbtcards.html

It works great either with the supplied software, DNTV live or with Microsoft Media Centre, only $99 plus you need an aerial to plug into it and Media Centre for XP or Vista if you don't want to use the supplied software.

Allan

[finga]

There are risks involded with everything mick. My house doesnt even have a RCD. But water increaces the risks.
240v vs 12v is like the diesel vs petrol tradeoff. Performance vs safety.
If you have a damaged lead in your shed, unless you actually touch the conductor, you'll be ok. Add water (a wet deck is all it takes) and you might not be so lucky. I would say that on a commercial vessel 240v is a must. But if a TV is all you need 240v for, it's not worth the risk IMO.
Don't tell that to some auto sparkies who have had a wedding ring shorted out on 12 or 24V DC and melted.
A properly sorted 240 system is just as safe as a LV DC system.
As for not having a RCD on the house...why??
If you want to be really safe with a safety switch and 240V AC get a 10mA safety switch...not a 30mA. Those suckers will trip at the blink of an eye.
Some other methods of protection and some background information
http://www.usyd.edu.au/anaes/lectures/electricity.html

[Hamish73]

Don't tell that to some auto sparkies who have had a wedding ring shorted out on 12 or 24V DC and melted.
A properly sorted 240 system is just as safe as a LV DC system.
As for not having a RCD on the house...why??
If you want to be really safe with a safety switch and 240V AC get a 10mA safety switch...not a 30mA. Those suckers will trip at the blink of an eye.
Some other methods of protection and some background information
http://www.usyd.edu.au/anaes/lectures/electricity.html

I think we can agree to disagree here and leave it at that.
We live in a rented house is why we have no RCD at home.
I run all kitchen appliances and the air conditioner through plug in RCD's

[steveg1100]

The higher the voltage the more dangerous. Lower Voltages are not as dangerous because the human body is high resistance and not enough current will pass through the body to cause concern. To give you an example grab both the positive and negative of your battery. You will find that nothing will happen. Its the current that kills you by causing tissue damage or heart fibrilation. If you on the other hand grabbed active and neutral from your power point which is a higher voltage you may not live to tell the tale (please don't do this). The other thing to consider is when the skin is wet the resistance drops more chance of fatal current passing through your body and a lower voltage can cause a shock. In short unless you really really know what you are doing please keep away from wiring anything in 240v especially in an environment were you are most likely to have water present.

[snelly1971]

Don't tell that to some auto sparkies who have had a wedding ring shorted out on 12 or 24V DC and melted.
A properly sorted 240 system is just as safe as a LV DC system.
As for not having a RCD on the house...why??
If you want to be really safe with a safety switch and 240V AC get a 10mA safety switch...not a 30mA. Those suckers will trip at the blink of an eye.
Some other methods of protection and some background information
http://www.usyd.edu.au/anaes/lectures/electricity.html

Maybe we should do a search and find out how many people are zapped by 240volts on a boat..??::)::)::)::)

I have never heard of anyone one and Finga has said..a properly set up system is not dangerous...it is just when back yarders who think they know what they are doing complete the task or take short cuts..
Mick

[cormorant]

Had a look at your boat in a previous and it is very nice I now understand a bit of what you want and why.

Been covered but

240v is more dangerous than 12 volts as it will kill you

Dangerous as very little 240 volt machinery is designed for exposed marine applications.

On trawlers everything is hydraulic and even many of the lamps were 24-36 volts and use high voltage transformers at the fitting to start the mercury vapour lamps.

Dangerous on boats - because people don't understand upkeep and annual inspections like gas certificates. On the scale of small boats you still have to have all the duplicated wiring, switch panels safety requirements but you need them in a small package so they are very evpensive due to the small scale.

Dangerous as rarely are the correct commercial fittings and wire used as they are so expensive. Allright when you have a oceanliner with a 50 year working life as it is a cost of business.

Shore power is different to generator power. US boats say never connect to a generator via shore power as it wasn't designed for it as an example.

The reason on a boat I see it as dangerous as it is rarely done to the correct standard , then kept that way ,and honestly I have seen survey boats I wouldn't boil a 240 v jug on- just look at some of the dive boats. The quality of wire and insulation used has to be able to withstand the conditions and those conditions include corrosive salt air and constant movement even within conduits, vibration and chemical attack.

Most boats that have a genset have an engine bay or area initially designed when built for a genset with direct external ventilation, insulation, bilge blower and hull fittings in suitable positions for conduits and circuit panels etc etc


Electricity is a really ineffecient heater.

Have a look at www.webasto.com.au (http://www.webasto.com.au) for heating and aircon. Still never a fan or anything that burns but at least it is purpose designed and runs silently with no motor and you get hot water as well.

Coastguard have used the wren marine units on some boats. http://www.aircommand.com.au/rtop_wren.asp

Pot haulers - anything wrong with putting a bigger windlass and wheel on a big 12/24 volt anchor winch? call the guys at wolf wnch

Good luck as it is always hard retro fitting boats with anything but that is half the fun. Tyr and find a marine electrical encgineer to spec out what you want and the approxinate cost is all I can suggest.

[snelly1971]

Had a look at your boat in a previous and it is very nice I now understand a bit of what you want and why.

Been covered but

240v is more dangerous than 12 volts as it will kill you

Dangerous as very little 240 volt machinery is designed for exposed marine applications.

On trawlers everything is hydraulic and even many of the lamps were 24-36 volts and use high voltage transformers at the fitting to start the mercury vapour lamps.

Dangerous on boats - because people don't understand upkeep and annual inspections like gas certificates. On the scale of small boats you still have to have all the duplicated wiring, switch panels safety requirements but you need them in a small package so they are very evpensive due to the small scale.

Dangerous as rarely are the correct commercial fittings and wire used as they are so expensive. Allright when you have a oceanliner with a 50 year working life as it is a cost of business.

Shore power is different to generator power. US boats say never connect to a generator via shore power as it wasn't designed for it as an example.

The reason on a boat I see it as dangerous as it is rarely done to the correct standard , then kept that way ,and honestly I have seen survey boats I wouldn't boil a 240 v jug on- just look at some of the dive boats. The quality of wire and insulation used has to be able to withstand the conditions and those conditions include corrosive salt air and constant movement even within conduits, vibration and chemical attack.

Most boats that have a genset have an engine bay or area initially designed when built for a genset with direct external ventilation, insulation, bilge blower and hull fittings in suitable positions for conduits and circuit panels etc etc


Electricity is a really ineffecient heater.

Have a look at www.webasto.com.au (http://www.webasto.com.au) for heating and aircon. Still never a fan or anything that burns but at least it is purpose designed and runs silently with no motor and you get hot water as well.

Coastguard have used the wren marine units on some boats. http://www.aircommand.com.au/rtop_wren.asp

Pot haulers - anything wrong with putting a bigger windlass and wheel on a big 12/24 volt anchor winch? call the guys at wolf wnch

Good luck as it is always hard retro fitting boats with anything but that is half the fun. Tyr and find a marine electrical encgineer to spec out what you want and the approxinate cost is all I can suggest.

I did find reading your posts quite informative up until now...:-X:-X

What a load of Bull$hit..12/24 volt Hauler...just goes to show how many commercial boats you have have been on..::)::)

If a Pot hauler is going to be designed for serious work then it must be hydrolic:o:o

And maybe...just maybe there are marine /electricians out there who know what they are talking about:-*:-*

With the appropriate circuit breakers and wired up properly then i cannot see how and have never came across anyone ever being electricuted by 240 v at sea..;D;D

Maybe you should go down to your local wharf or marina and jump on a few commercial boats and see just how they are set up...surely a marine surveyor would not allow anything dodgy to be wired or set up on a boat in survey..:-/:-/

Mick

[snelly1971]

PS...I am not one to go and get some dodgy back yarder come and wire my boat up to 240 v...the person in question has 40 years experience and has worked on many many commercial boats with 240 and he assures me that when done it will be safe as ..

Mick

[searay215ec]

we have a 12 volt 17" widescreen lcd tv/dvd combo that we use in our boat along with 12 volt digital stb. we get perfect picture everywhere we go.

The TV and STB usually are used in our bedroom and when we go to boat, simply hang tv on bracket monted in cabin,plug in a few cables and we good to go.

[Fish Guts]

yapoon,

thankyou for the link. you noted that you need an additional aerial for the laptop to pick up a station once this is fitted. where does the aerial go into the laptop ? what sort of aerial are we talking. sorry i know stuff all about this, would appreciate your input..cheers


searay,

does your unit draw much from your batteries ? sorry, but what is stb again ?

cheers

fish guts

[Yapoon]

Hey Fish Guts

The unit has a USB connector at one end (plugs into laptop) and a TV aerial socket at the other end, the unit comes with a little aerial that will work in areas of good reception but I would thnk you would need to get a small digital TV aerial for the boat. Best to consult a TV aerial specialist of Dick Smith/Tandy.

cheers
Allan

[finga]

Sorry to take over your thread Fish Guts but some information is about about.
240/415V in boats.
Any wiring now done in boats should be done to a standard. In this case AS/NZS 30004:2002 is dedicated to the wiring of Marinas and pleasure craft.
Other standards must be followed as well but this standard goes outside the scope of the others.
If any person doing work that does not comply to these standards should be reported.
As for "Shore power is different to generator power. US boats say never connect to a generator via shore power as it wasn't designed for it as an example." is totally true as most US power is supplied at 110V not the norm of 240V. and as such most of the appliances are rated at 110V so they wouldn't like the 240V used in other places around the world. There is also a difference in the frequency the Americans use. They use 60Hz we use 50Hz.
A properly designed, installed and maintained 240V is as safe as a poorly installed 12/24V system.
It's not the voltage that kills it's the current passing through your body.If you have cuts on your hands then DC can also kill.
If the moisture is a concern (and it should be) then the use of IP56 or 66 switchgear and appliances should be used. This type of switchgear is readily available at any good electrical wholesaler.
IP 56 and 66 are certified to be "protected against jets of water of similar force to heavy seas" and the IP rating go up to 8 (in they have protection against ingress of liquids and are rated for continuous immersion) so if these standards are kept to then no problems
Mick if you need a copy of the standard give me a cooee and I'll send one down.

[Yapoon]

just to add...most large marine chandlerys carry a range of marie TV aerials but I have no experience in how well these work

Allan

[Hamish73]

Some good info there Finga and cormorant

Mick, what trade or uni qualifications do you have? If the answer is 'none', I'd listen and learn if I were you ;)

To anyone reading this thread or considering taking action on what they have read, please have the work done my a profesional! Some of the people that have commented here may well be qualified profesionals, but I'm pretty sure that others arent

I am an electronics tech by trade with a 1000v restricted electrical licence, which prevents me from doing new installations so a fit out isnt what I do. But my 10 odd years repairing welding equipment has taught me a lot about what voltages are dangerous and which ones arent. Take garden lighting for example. Why do you recon it's 12/24v DC and not 240v AC? Is it because they really wanted to make money on the transformer they sell you? Or is it that they wanted the voltage drop so some light would be brighter than others??? No, it's because 240v AC is more dangerous that 12/24v DC

[finga]

Mick isn't going to do the work. He's going to get someone to do it for him.
And excellent point to put forward Hamish...can't say that too many times Electricity can be a very powerful friend or a deadly enemy

To anyone reading this thread or considering taking action on what they have read, please have the work done by a professional!

I'm a fully qualified electrical fitter/mechanic in two states since 1986 (started my apprenticeship in '82) with qualifications for working on live overheads to 66kV, underground cable joining up to 66kV (dead though), communications up and including fiber-optics, and also did a bit of training (polarity testing) for Northpower and installation inspection when I worked for them.

Hamish...one reason a lot of things are done in 12/24V is because it takes less R&D, expenditure and manufacturing to become safe.
And it's easier to get imported and sold into many many counties without any problems such as whether the country is 110VAc or 240VAC or frequency used or blah, blah , blah as it doesn't need to go through all the certification processes associated with mains voltage AC stuff.
And people don't have to pay mega bucks for the sparky labour and materials to come and install. Those buggers are over the top now :)
Shame I don't work anymore :(
All you need is a different tranny and away you go :) (the tranny should be certified though :))

Don't get me wrong here...12/24 Vdc is extremely safe but so also is 240/415 VAC if done correctly.
I use 12V a lot for my own garden and security lights etc as I use a lot of LED's. I love 12V
Why???....I didn't have to dig a bloody deep trench to put the cable and conduit in and all the other 'rules and regulations' I don't have to follow when using 12V :)
But if the 240/415 is done incorrectly then is extremely dangerous but 12/24 systems with the capacity of huge currents is also very, very dangerous to the untrained

The voltage drop is worse as the voltage gets smaller. That's why overhead lines are in the kilovolts not hundreds of volts.
I used to work a lot in substations and a lot of signaling and protection gear is done in DC but at 110VDC. That stuff scared the begeesus out of me. I got hit once (never trust what anybody says. Test test test for your bloody self was the lesson learned) when I was an apprentice. Blew a chuck of skin off my thumb 5mm dia but it didn't bleed... just burned. :(

[Hamish73]

Finga,
I figured you had some sort of official training ion the field. :) I will agree with you there that higher DC voltages can be nasty. The welding equipment I work on has 600v DC (even after it's unplugged :o ) , as will any 3 plase inverter.
Over the last few years a device called a VRD (voltage reduction device) has become a requirement for welders being used in the mines or confined spaces for that exact reason. Also good point re trench digging etc.

[snelly1971]

Some good info there Finga and cormorant

Mick, what trade or uni qualifications do you have? If the answer is 'none', I'd listen and learn if I were you ;)

To anyone reading this thread or considering taking action on what they have read, please have the work done my a profesional! Some of the people that have commented here may well be qualified profesionals, but I'm pretty sure that others arent

I am an electronics tech by trade with a 1000v restricted electrical licence, which prevents me from doing new installations so a fit out isnt what I do. But my 10 odd years repairing welding equipment has taught me a lot about what voltages are dangerous and which ones arent. Take garden lighting for example. Why do you recon it's 12/24v DC and not 240v AC? Is it because they really wanted to make money on the transformer they sell you? Or is it that they wanted the voltage drop so some light would be brighter than others??? No, it's because 240v AC is more dangerous that 12/24v DC

As i worte....I am not doing the wiring set up....i am using an electrician here locally who does all the work on the commercial boats ...he has 40 years exp

So maybe you should learn to open your eyes:o and read things properly before making comments..:-X:-X

Mick

[Hamish73]

As i worte....I am not doing the wiring set up....i am using an electrician here locally who does all the work on the commercial boats ...he has 40 years exp

So maybe you should learn to open your eyes:o and read things properly before making comments..:-X:-X

Mick
yeah I read all that Mick
Still doesnt change the facts.
You are giving advise on a subject you know SFA about

[snelly1971]

yeah I read all that Mick
Still doesnt change the facts.
You are giving advise on a subject you know SFA about

That is why i am using someone to do the job...:P:P

There are probably hundreds of thousands of boats in Australia with 240 v and here you are making a statement that it is not safe.::)::)..well ...that says it all...:-/ Are all the boats that are fitted with 240 unsafe:-X:-X...is that what you are trying to say:-X:-X

As for giving advice...well i have worked on and been on enough boats in my life to know that if 240 v is set up properly then there shouldnt be a safety concern..

Its just when backyarders try and do it themselves that something goes wrong:o:o

Mick

[Hamish73]

Mick, like I said before.
12v DC is safer than 240vAC.
If the 240 isnt required (as the case in this thread) , I don't recomend fitting it.
Remember this thread is about a TV, not your boat

[snelly1971]

[quote=cormorant;669927]Had a look at your boat in a previous and it is very nice I now understand a bit of what you want and why.

Been covered but

240v is more dangerous than 12 volts as it will kill you

Dangerous as very little 240 volt machinery is designed for exposed marine applications.

On trawlers everything is hydraulic and even many of the lamps were 24-36 volts and use high voltage transformers at the fitting to start the mercury vapour lamps.

Dangerous on boats - because people don't understand upkeep and annual inspections like gas certificates. On the scale of small boats you still have to have all the duplicated wiring, switch panels safety requirements but you need them in a small package so they are very evpensive due to the small scale.

Dangerous as rarely are the correct commercial fittings and wire used as they are so expensive. Allright when you have a oceanliner with a 50 year working life as it is a cost of business.

Shore power is different to generator power. US boats say never connect to a generator via shore power as it wasn't designed for it as an example.

The reason on a boat I see it as dangerous as it is rarely done to the correct standard , then kept that way ,and honestly I have seen survey boats I wouldn't boil a 240 v jug on- just look at some of the dive boats. The quality of wire and insulation used has to be able to withstand the conditions and those conditions include corrosive salt air and constant movement even within conduits, vibration and chemical attack.

Most boats that have a genset have an engine bay or area initially designed when built for a genset with direct external ventilation, insulation, bilge blower and hull fittings in suitable positions for conduits and circuit panels etc etc


Electricity is a really ineffecient heater.

Have a look at www.webasto.com.au (http://www.webasto.com.au) for heating and aircon. Still never a fan or anything that burns but at least it is purpose designed and runs silently with no motor and you get hot water as well.

Coastguard have used the wren marine units on some boats. http://www.aircommand.com.au/rtop_wren.asp

Pot haulers - anything wrong with putting a bigger windlass and wheel on a big 12/24 volt anchor winch? call the guys at wolf wnch

Yes i agree it is not about my boat but a TV set up...I was just replying to information posted that i disagree with....

Mick

[cormorant]

I apologise to everyone. I posted a reply on this thread in error which I was going to post on the generator thread and subsequently taken this thread well off topic. I must have had 2 threads up at once and added the reply to the wrong thread. Sorry

Snelly -Mick - mate I didn't you were a commercial operator ,that your question was for a commercial boat and don't know if your new boat is the boat you referred to re a generator - a quick search has shown up plenty of 12/24 pot haulers in Northern hemisphere but they don't look heavy duty commercial or state duty cycles. I suggested that as an option to save having to install 240v power just for a pot hauler and heater.

Commercial boats run hydraulic units powered by auxillary or main diesel motors as we are both aware but not sure many would run 240 volt hydraulic pack in small boats.

All my concerns like some others who have commented on 240v on boats have tried to get across the point it can be deadly and have tried to indicate the danger / expense / hassle / risks. We are aware you know that and are an experienced commercial operator now. Good luck with your boat and installation.

Sorry fish guts for scre-wing up the tv thread and I hope everyone can leave this thread be or just post TV stuff.

As for the TV stuff any aerial for the USB laptop must be a digital one. Many of the USB dongles come with one and possibly better more powerful ones can come from Jaycar etc

[bastard]

I use a 12 volt flat screen tv i bought from big w for 300 dollars,it has a built in dvd player,it can run of its own battery pack or plug into a cigarette lighter,i just use bunny ears and as long as the boats not swinging around to much the picture is great,it has a 10 inch screen and it is plenty big enough.:)

[searay215ec]

searay,

does your unit draw much from your batteries ? sorry, but what is stb again ?

cheers

fish guts


STB = set top box = digital tv

Can't remember the exact power consumption figures but i know i can leave it on all night and still start motor(mercruiser 5.0 mpi) next morning