It's good to see a few more thinking threads on here guys.
Hi B8 we were talking about the skinny barefoot guy up north, not the big barefoot guy...Sorry for the confusion, i was just keeping names out of the thread. I met the big fella up at Awoonga and you wouldn't even know he was sponsored, he was just one of the blokes enjoying a spot of fishing. I hear he is deadly at casting, and your comments prove that..
Secret Squirrel can be looked at in 2 ways. I think we all have been frustrated by it as sometime or another, i have. When we are frustrated we want everyone to give us everything they have worked a whole life for - for free and think we deserve it. In our own minds we have convinced ourselves we deserve it. When i first joined up there seemed to be more secret squirrel, but there is a heap of help in the freshwater section for anyone who thinks and can apply tips.
Sport: Lance Armstrong wont' be giving away all his hard earned training plans on the net for his opposition to use, or steal and print it as their own material - which happens. Jonathon Brown won't be listing down everything that makes him a good AFL player for free on the net after he has worked all his young life to be where he is. KFC wont' be giving away their recipe for 12 herbs and spices.
Gimmy,Gimmy,Gimmy For Free: To expect all this info for free all the time is a bit harsh, especially if the guy works in this area e.g. guides who have spent an entire life and spent $100 000 to get the info only to be expected by many to post it all for free etc. I reckon even a few guys i disagree with will agree with me on this one.
However in the freshwater section you can go back over threads in the last few years and fill volumes with good info. Some guys print a 2 line reply, but if a thinking mind is applied those 2 lines at times will be better advice than a whole weeks threads & mags. The radar has to be switched on to spot the good from the bad. Things have to be slowed down.
Secret Squirrel has another side. A few quiet guys who are some of the nicest people i've ever met don't say much in their local area. Sure they will get a map out and show you good areas to fish, set you up with gear and take you out fishing, which is more than they should do as i just met them. However they won't give away a couple of fishing spots becasue up the coast in their local towns they have a problem.
Locals that post the spot on the net, then 30 people who don't work kill every fish in the area. They slaughter every fish in the area until it's smashed. This is one of the reasons secret squirrel is around in the salt areas/fishing. On the impoundments it's usually catch and release and you will pretty much get seen fishing your spot in a wide open dam etc.
Back to free advice: However both these guys do offer free advice over the years, and the content of their advice is heavy in tips. We only spot them if we are thinking & listening. I've watched some of the best articles/threads disappear quickly, yet they were packed with info. These thinking threads always seem to stop quicker than lure threads, because it's harder to think than go down the shop and buy the latest lure craze. At times i think we have been trained not to think. Much of the focus is on articles that will give us something to buy, hold and cast like rods, reels and lures, instead of getting better at finding the fish and catching the fish. As a mate of mine says " You dont find many articles on thinking do you?, and why is that?"
If we are waiting for big companies marketing departments to tell us what the next best thing is, we are in a non thinking mode, and won't be as good as we could be at spotting crap and good products for ourselves. If we are in that mode, it's our choice whether we snap out of it or not.
Not thinking: How good will we be at fishing if we don't want to think much. Where will buying lures take us in 20 years and where will thinking/observation take us in 20 years (fishing). 2 different places i reckon.
Practise at making up our own minds on a product is a good thing.
Have a good Australia Day Weekend Guys
Cheers Lyndon.
It is an indicator of the times.
So many people want to purchase a solution or a result, the vast majority of the population can not cope with uncertanty unless that uncertanty provides promises of significant gain.
So instead of using the two most important things at an anglers disposal.."observation" and "thaught", they want to buy product, services or information to guarantee a result.
Even more so they mostly expect it cheap.
cheers
Its the details, those little details, that make the difference.
The biggest investment is the rod and reel.
When you go through these mags you will always see shimano and diawa full gloss adds which aren’t cheap.
Which makes people think about buying one,keep pushing a product enough and people start thinking of only that one brand.
But here in Australia all comments in forums always goes to diawa or shimano as the only choice.
A bit like holden or ford only.
What about all those other brands out there that not only are as good but are cheaper than diawa and shimano.
Just goes to show the adds are working in Australia.
I do agree to an extent re shimano or daiwa being the topics that dominate discussion.
When i was starting out whenever i looked at the entry level stuff i was an S man. When i had $70 bucks to spend on a reel i would pop down the shops and look for a $70 Shimano.
“They’ve got a good name i’ve see the yibbada yibbada bloke using them”
Never thought twice about which brand to buy. Then i met some really helpful guys at my local store (since closed) that took the time to go through the daiwa range and show me comparable products. Not that they pushed anything on me just gave me the facts.
By this time my budget wasn’t $70 any more so i could look at the mid range stuff sols, stradics and what not again they gave me the nuts and bolts and i walked out with 2x sols.
The budget increased and the bloke at the tackle store says to me - he has this thing called a black sheep (?) for sale. I had no idea what a black sheep was but came home googled it ended up finding this site (Ausfish very helpful)and heard guys at the time raving about them. Yep i’ll have one of those.
So i guess the TV media influenced my early purchases with guys on TV spruiking their products but then as my interest, ability and budget progressed other forms of media (internet) took over and took me in a different direction.
In that time i have had to wade through a heap of propaganda, marketing brochures, dvd, product reviews but i am glad those resources were available to help me make educated choices.
JIM
Originally Posted by spears
Hi Spears ....... you are right Shimano/Daiwa ... Holden / Ford thing
My 2 cents worth is that Daiwa & Shimano ( the 2 largest tackle manufacturers) actually put more work into their product range & some of it is actually designed for Australian fish & conditions ....... particularly Shimano.Daiwas reputation for producing some of the best reels on the market will always attract a following.
We see now Pure fishing (Berkley) are putting in a serious effort ( with ABU & Pflueger under the same umbrella) .
As for the other manufacturers ..... particularly the US based companies - sure there is some nice kit ..... & some cheaper...... but how will it fare here ...... Hell a rod giant like Loomis dont produce rods that run larger eyed guides which are more suited to the bulky knots of impoundment barra leader systems.
Back to the adds ...... Its a head to head battle for market share!
Chris
Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
Teach him how to fish
& he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
TEAM MOJIKO
Good input jim and chris.
I kind of been playing around with reels over the last 40 years and gone through 170-180 odd makes and brands,even during the last 10 days 6 reels have turned up and sold 5.
These have been from different manufactures and models sold local and overseas.
One thing that I have come across in some brands is parts swapping within that one manufacturer with a lot doing this same thing.
I’d say one of the biggest tricks they use is…”Look at this new model we have to offer you”
And what happens is the same reel is being offered with new handle ,better drag,colored bail wire and new line ratings and new body color.
The one thing is it’s $150 more when the only thing you would have needed is upgraded drag.
So all we start reading on forums is look at this,isn’t this thing sweet,and the bling and they go for it.
What you end up with is a manufacturing adjustment,gloss full page adds and sales galore.Sucked in again.
There is one big difference in a forum like this when compared to the print or visual media ........ Yes new bling gets mentioned - - - - but if it is shite or not value for money ..... you will hear about it!!!!! - try to get a shimano sponsored angler to tell you that the Boof frog is shite ....... or Loomis bloke that the guides on their BCR855 are too small for large barra leader knots ........ would be like pulling teeth!
Yes ..... there is a lot to be learnt from a site like this
Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
Teach him how to fish
& he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
TEAM MOJIKO
Good thread boys, and Nic, and some home truths not often mentioned comin out!
There is a lot to be said for the grapevine, word of mouth is a powerfull advertising tool in its own rite. Secret squirral stuff sometimes isnt so secret between those who wish to share, the PM feature buzz's at times between co-conspirators.
The downside of it all is that the "good oil" reach's such a small part of the consumer world. How many punters would fish the barra dams per year, and have gleaned all their info from a glossy mag or vid, with the associated implied product endorsement. That was me on my first ever impoundment barra trip to Awoonga, the mags told me to troll THIS lure, and watch the fish roll in. The donut that followed was both an education, and a slap in the face with the duelling glove!
I will be so interested to kick back and watch how the impoundment barra scene un-folds over the next 5 years, with the glory days of "dumb" fish appearing to be gone, will the lure to the average fisho of catching a big barra, with which comes a compounding of both pressure and education of our finny friends, decline, and with it the current spate/glut of glossy ads and articles. Will our advertising and marketing mates find a new "flavour of the month", and move on in search of the naive dollar? My head says yes, my heart hopes yes, time will tell
Not sure how you came about with your comment.
My point was it’s a recognized product or Quality recognized product just revamped with very little to offer with a $150 price increase .
just a comment on word & mouth ..... via a forum - you can jazz something up all you like ........ but will it get past the tackle junkies ? someone will pull it down real quick ...
Chris
Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
Teach him how to fish
& he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
TEAM MOJIKO
Back on my hobby horse. Whenever you see a big glossy advert, a shiny tournament boat with massive signage, a TV show with hosts and lots of gear, a nice (or not) package around your latest lure, line or tool purchase, YOU are paying. No manufacturer could afford the aforementioned unless WE buy their stuff.
So if we do not want to be concerned with whether it's a marketing ploy - or really the best bit of gear there is available WE can fix it. WE can STOP buying fishing gear! Then the manufacturers could not afford to advertise and the only way we'd know what was really good would be by word of mouth.
Yes - we could do that - and that would be on the same day that we see pink porcine objects drifting past at 1000 feet!!!
Just a point about manufacturers and people pushing brands - just before chrissy I went to a local fishing tackle specialist and asked about Shimano reels. I was told in no uncertain terms that I would never buy that (excreta) in that shop. Strange - I went in again last night and there were more of that (excreta) brand reels on the shelves than the previously "best in the world" brand. Did the quality of either brand change that quickly? Or was there a more "tangible" reason for the change??
Maybe it's not just the media who influence us
Personally i cant see the issue with all of this. Who cares if Daiwa or shimano have big glossy ads in a mag, logos all over fishos shirts and hats, down the sides of boats, product placement in tv shows etc etc.
Its a tecnique practiced in most industries, especially those with any media coverage. I say good luck to em. If they can snare some sales based on the perception they have 'paid good money' to build why complain.
Also why complain about endorsements and sponsorhip. I dont know any angler who wouldnt like to have free stuff handed to them. I challenge any of you to turn it down. You are all advocates of brands. Like it or not. You all advertise and sponsor and endorse your favourite reels and rods etc. The only difference is other gets stuff for doing it. I think it's a case of the green-eyed monster coming out here.
I heard first hand that people at Daiwa are turned off by bream tourny fishos thinking they all have a right to sponsorship with thier company. The bream equipment is such a small part of their annual turnover they simply wouldnt care if every bream fisho bought shimano. Most of their turnover is in cheap combos...and the expensive glossy ads are catered just for those people. Building the brand at the grass roots level has far better implications for the company than trying to convert the pros who scrutinise products on sites like this.
If i have to pay 7bux for my monthly mag and see a few ads, so be it. Beats paying 50bux for a mag without them.
Just my 5c
For fishing reports, fishing info, new techniques and fishing news read;
Savvy Fishing Blog
Well there you go ........ I'm surprised that you would get a comment like that from a tackle shop ......... certainly not a good oneBack on my hobby horse. Whenever you see a big glossy advert, a shiny tournament boat with massive signage, a TV show with hosts and lots of gear, a nice (or not) package around your latest lure, line or tool purchase, YOU are paying. No manufacturer could afford the aforementioned unless WE buy their stuff.
So if we do not want to be concerned with whether it's a marketing ploy - or really the best bit of gear there is available WE can fix it. WE can STOP buying fishing gear! Then the manufacturers could not afford to advertise and the only way we'd know what was really good would be by word of mouth.
Yes - we could do that - and that would be on the same day that we see pink porcine objects drifting past at 1000 feet!!!
Just a point about manufacturers and people pushing brands - just before chrissy I went to a local fishing tackle specialist and asked about Shimano reels. I was told in no uncertain terms that I would never buy that (excreta) in that shop. Strange - I went in again last night and there were more of that (excreta) brand reels on the shelves than the previously "best in the world" brand. Did the quality of either brand change that quickly? Or was there a more "tangible" reason for the change??
Maybe it's not just the media who influence us
We have a new wave of tackle shops in Sydney that sell more shite than quality gear ........ I've walked into a few & walked out within 2 minutes ( a record for me) - Most of the gear is obscure brands with dubious heritage / quality .......... Is this something that we are going to see more of ?
But back to advertising & sponsorship ........ Its part & parcel these days & there is nothing wrong with it - - but just be aware why someone has all the sudden started promoting the next best thing .... Advertorials ( be it a motor , electronics or piece of tackle) ........ I can just about bet that they did not make the decision themselves & put their hand into their own pocket ! ....... very muddied
Chris
Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
Teach him how to fish
& he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
TEAM MOJIKO
Like Kevvie and you have said Chris,
the best % markup is in the cheaper combo style outfits. The grass roots )begginners and once a year fisho's) are they are also the greatest % of the fsihing market. If they weren't, Mart K, W Big, wouldnt sell fishing gear. Thats the target market with the celebrities and the gloss.
Tackleshops (chain stores) have indent orders where they bulk buy thousands cheap and split them amongst stores. This is where they get the begginners...the beginners are in the market now....gear breaks down, kids fill them with sand or whatever.....they upgrade...often with the same brand.... Kids/adults get hooked on fishing, read all the glossy stuff and want to upgrade.
There are certianties in this world!
While there are women there will be diet schemes, makeup and anti-aging products.
While there are men in the world there will be fishing gear and beer.
ALL reinvent the same thing and sell it as better than the rest.
Where there is inability, insecurity and the need to keep up with the Jones, they will all succeed!!
My 2c worth..again
Steve
Ahh the old changing horses syndrome don't you love it.
There is a certain pro audio supplier in brisbane and whatever he has in stock at the moment is the best thing on earth and everything else is rubbish.
And what does he have in stock.....what ever he can chisel a deal on... the more margin the better.
When in pro audio the standard wholsale deal is retail less 30%.... and the quantity buy deal can be as good as less 30% less30% less10% and less6% for cash settlement.... you see how it works.
What I do know is that a number of the suppliers will not sell to low margin undercutting quantity buyers..... because it devalues the product in the eyes of both other dealers and the buying public.
So ( and this is right across the board), quite a lot of product you see in the low price, low service discount stores you will not see in the better quality stores that provide service in a sustainable manner.
So does john laws realy belive that his corrent endorsement is a better product than mortien?
Just call me sceptical and synical ........ i'm happy with that.
cheers
.
Its the details, those little details, that make the difference.
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