Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 31

Thread: 90 per cent drop in snapper stocks

  1. #1

    90 per cent drop in snapper stocks

    http://www.boatsales.com.au/content/...-decline-47580

    Scientists suggest snapper decline





    Queensland uni report points to 90 per cent drop in stocks
    Queensland scientists delving into newspaper archives have discovered that catch rates for Queensland’s pink snapper fishery have declined almost 90 per cent since the 19th Century.

    Researchers from the ARC Centre of Excellence for Coral Reef Studies at The University of Queensland and the Department of Agriculture Fisheries and Forestry examined thousands of newspaper articles dating back to 1870 to reveal the historic catch rates for the iconic Queensland fishery.

    "We found that 19th Century recreational fishers would regularly catch hundreds of fish off the coast of Queensland, often in just a few hours of fishing," said ARC Centre of Excellence for Coral Reef Studies research fellow Dr Ruth Thurstan (pictured).

    Combining historical data with statistical analyses allowed the researchers to calculate catch rates – the number of fish caught per hour of fishing per day – for nearly 300 fishing trips between 1871 and 1939.
    The old news articles have given researchers unparalleled insights into the history of the Queensland snapper fishery.

    "When we searched through these old newspapers we were amazed by the level of detail they provided," Dr Thurstan said.

    "They give us a much better understanding of just how rich and productive this fishery used to be, as well as providing us with some fascinating insights into the development of offshore recreational fishing in Queensland."

    "Crucially, these newspaper articles place the modern-day fishery into a longer-term perspective that isn’t available using only official records.

    "This helps us understand the changes that have occurred in the fishery over time, and provides an additional piece of the puzzle for those managing this fishery today," she said.

    Study co-author, ARC Centre of Excellence for Coral Reef Studies Professor John Pandolfi agreed.

    "This is one of the most comprehensive perspectives on historical trends in catch rates for Australian fisheries ever compiled," he said.

    "We expect similar trends to be uncovered for other Australian fisheries."

  2. #2

    Re: 90 per cent drop in snapper stocks

    I don't think an accurate corelation between " catch rates " and " fish stocks " can be made from newspaper clippings reporting catches.

    So many variables to contend with that I find it impossible to use any critical data sets to make remotely accurate assumptions.

    The way to understand or report fish stocks is to count fish. That is impossible, so scientists use other means to produce results.

    Catch rates over the years depend on many factors.

    time spent fishing " fishing effort "
    numbers of anglers
    numbers of fish
    distance to travel / area specific
    habitat degredation and loss
    floods and droughts ( this has a large bearing on recruitment of many species )
    the actual reporting / recording
    fishery legislation changes ( bag limits / size limits )
    recruitment loss through commercial by-catch
    envorinmental changes ( water temps )
    loss or change to spawning areas
    recreational and commercial fishing technics ( sounders, gps )
    fishers attitudes ( C & R groups )


    I would like to see the data used by Dr Ruth Thurstan and Professor John Pandolfi to make their assumption that the Snapper stocks have dropped by 90%. Using catch rates could possibly produce a result for a drop in catch rates, but what specifically are the catch rates based on ? Numbers of anglers ? Numbers of fish ? Fishing effort ?


    Certainly an individual caught more Snapper in say 1960 than today, but then, there were no bag limits, size limits and certainly the species were more prevelant close to shore due to a number of factors including far less habitat destruction. And if we go further back, we would find the more bio-mass close to shore as the industrial and agricultural runoff was far less.


    I understand that Qld Fisheries scientists have been monitoring the stocks for some time and believe we are at a specific level now relating to virgin bio-mass. What the vrigin bio-mass was, is really an unknown factor making any results from calculations an assumption.


    What you will find through this research is that the attributal economic input into the Snapper fishery is far greater now than in years gone by. Meaning the numbers of fishers that fish for Snapper put more money into the economy in their pursuit for these brutes than ever before. A fair, but not statically accurate “ assumption “ would be to say in the year 1900 it would cost the average recreational fisher a lot less than 1 penny ( 1 cent ) per kilogram ( lbs , back then ) for each fish to catch and considering that would possibly be about 0.01% of their weekly pay ( income ), whereas today it is closer to $80 / kilo and about 6% of weekly pay.


    In yesteryear and the same as this very day, there will always be the fisher that can catch their bag limit on any given day and there are fishers that will struggle. Ask the struggling fisher and they will tell you “ stocks are down “, ask the other one and they'll tell you “ no problems “. We need to ask the Fish...... I don't speak fish... do you ?




    LP
    Kingfisher Painting Solutions:- Domestic and Commercial.

    For further information, contact details, quotes or advice - Click Here





  3. #3

    Re: 90 per cent drop in snapper stocks

    I am not discounting the research done in this instance, only questioning the outcome and conclusions.



    LP
    Kingfisher Painting Solutions:- Domestic and Commercial.

    For further information, contact details, quotes or advice - Click Here





  4. #4

    Re: 90 per cent drop in snapper stocks

    I think I mentioned this before, but a couple of years ago, the NSW Fisheries enlisted a heap of volunteers, and these were all local fishermen from fishing clubs and so on, they were at every ramp in the entire area, every day, for a year, collecting data on catch, they asked how long you had been out, how many fished, and measured each fish and counted them (of course) asked approximate cost to go out for the day, how far you had travelled to get to the ramp, and during the days fishing, some people told them to get lost, others tried to lie about how long they had fished and all sorts of stuff like that, how that data will be used in the future is anyone's guess, I answered as honestly as I could, don't know if they are up to no good, trying to see what is actually caught or what, but I guess it is better than a wild guess?

  5. #5

    Re: 90 per cent drop in snapper stocks

    OH, I might add, the same thing was done to the local pro fisherman too.

  6. #6

    Re: 90 per cent drop in snapper stocks

    I think the article is a pretty accurate, when you see the gear they used to catch all those fish years ago the number would only be far greater had modern gear been used, we only need to look at the reports on ausfish of snapper catches around 2006 - 2007, lots of reports from wello, mud and green of good snapper catches, at the time I was catching heaps myself, I know reports of other species are down as well but snapper reports are very rare these days...

  7. #7

    Re: 90 per cent drop in snapper stocks

    Comparing something at only 2 different points in time indicates a difference between them, but you can't know if it is a trend. It might have gone up, or down, or both, in between, maybe multiple times (i.e. it is cyclic).

    That said, I think any fisherman is convinced that catches of fish, in general, are getting worse.

  8. #8

    Re: 90 per cent drop in snapper stocks

    Amother way to look at this is, for the first time, scientists are taking recreational fishers fishing reports as a useful source of real data that should be taken into acount when assessments and decisions about fishing rules are being made. Previously, they discounted the thoughts and views of experienced fishers almos completely.

    I would also add the cautionary note others have already stated - you cant look at just one or two year's recent fishing experience and draw conclusions. Seasonal variations have a big impact. We know from research from reputable groups like Capreef (Infofish) that catch rates of reef fish increase exponentially almost immediately following big floods events, and then taper down over a couple of years and then bottom out in severe drought years. They proved the old saying "a drought on land results in a drought at sea" is true.

    And that is just one factor.

    I am convinced that snapper, and no doubt other species, have become far more aware of and sensitive to fishing techniques and specific lures.

    Ive found that the soft plastics that we first used 15-20 years ago, like the Bass Assassins and Zooms, became less effective over time. Early days, we were getting smashed on those plastics by snapper in the Bay in locations where you struggled to nail a fish on bait. But after a couple of years, the fish wised up, and the hits slowed down.

    Changed to new types and brands of plastics and bang! The fish were on again.

    And despite all that, there is no doubt that there is a hell of a lot more pressure on the stock these days than there was back then. It must have had a big impact over the years. As has the greater affluence of society in general, with forums like this showing just how many people these days have offshore boats, plus thousands of $ in technology to get them onto the fish.

    My Dad used to fish with his work's social fishing Club, they did charters on the old slow launches out of Brisbane river and Southport. Hardly ayone except the really well off had boats capable of offshore fishing, so thats how those guys fished. They would travel for 3 hours, anchor on known spots usng landmaks, burley for a couple of hours till they had the fish almost at the back of the boat, and then get stuck into them, using deck winches they had made themselves. That was just how it was done.
    Note to self: Don't argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience....

  9. #9

    Re: 90 per cent drop in snapper stocks

    I agree with allycat, I know people don't like to hear it because it generally means reduced bad limits etc, and every one wants to blame commercial fisho's etc. and while Lucky Phil has plenty of good points, I think it actually works against the point he's trying to make. Its obvious I think, that year by year there are fewer fish in the sea, in fact no matter what we do to to try to stop having a detrimental effect will never be enough. Every year there are more people fishing commercial or rec, as well as more mouths to feed. While we as a species continue to expand, live longer, eat more all fish can do is what they have all ways done, they have no means to extend their chance of survival.

    I sure as hell don't want rec fishing to be any more restricted than it is, god knows i struggle to get a feed as it is. But i'm not fool enough to think the rate we are taking fish out of the sea is sustainable.

  10. #10

    Re: 90 per cent drop in snapper stocks

    Quote Originally Posted by alleycat View Post
    I think the article is a pretty accurate, when you see the gear they used to catch all those fish years ago the number would only be far greater had modern gear been used, we only need to look at the reports on ausfish of snapper catches around 2006 - 2007, lots of reports from wello, mud and green of good snapper catches, at the time I was catching heaps myself, I know reports of other species are down as well but snapper reports are very rare these days...
    I doubt the type of gear they used years ago went into the data set for calculations, but maybe ? dunno. Also, just because you don't see reports of lots of Snapper, doesn't mean they are not being caught. Let's face it, as rec fishers we used to ( years ago ) post / display / take photos of our catch.... these days, with restrictions like bag and size limits, the " prize " is not as " newsworthy " ............... to some.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lordspink View Post
    I agree with allycat, I know people don't like to hear it because it generally means reduced bad limits etc, and every one wants to blame commercial fisho's etc. and while Lucky Phil has plenty of good points, I think it actually works against the point he's trying to make. Its obvious I think, that year by year there are fewer fish in the sea, in fact no matter what we do to to try to stop having a detrimental effect will never be enough. Every year there are more people fishing commercial or rec, as well as more mouths to feed. While we as a species continue to expand, live longer, eat more all fish can do is what they have all ways done, they have no means to extend their chance of survival.

    I sure as hell don't want rec fishing to be any more restricted than it is, god knows i struggle to get a feed as it is. But i'm not fool enough to think the rate we are taking fish out of the sea is sustainable.
    We must also remember the world as a whole is upgrading and enhancing the aquaculture and fish farming , and not to forget the hugely and extensive investment in artificial reefs in Asian countries, that are filling the void by reduced wild caught fish. These types of fishery did not exist many years to compliment the wild fishery.

    I don't think rec fishos blame the pro's for the many issues in the rec fishing industry, but certainly the inshore trawl netting is still a major problem to species nursery.

    I don't have the answer, but I do know that non-discriminatory netting produces by-catch and a lot of by-catch becomes shark food and does no doubt have an impact on the bio-mass of particular species, such as Snapper.

    The rec fishery is constantly changing in defination with the growing entities of C & R, spearos etc and due to this, the dynamics of the industry are changing as well, but it will take a generation to change the mindset and I believe we are halfway through one of these generational phases with the focus on bag limits, size limits and seasonal closures.

    I have had a think about this and I find it almost impossible to draw parallels or conclusions as to the bio-mass / stocks of a species through recreational catches recorded in newspaper clipings.

    Some time ago, I did a summary.... essay.... ??? and in brief it went like this:-

    Many years ago with a limited rec fishing population X number of fishers caught Y numbers of fish at Z weights which = ABC tonnage.

    These days with vastly increased number of rec fishers, the X number of fishers was 10 fold or more.... the Y numbers of fish were dramatically reduced ( bag limits ) and the Y weights of the fish were down ( less larger species and again, limits in this case of only 1 snapper over 70cms )........... but the strange thing was the actual ABC tonnage was the same...

    In short, we are catching a lot more smaller fish in greater numbers, but still the same amount of weight.... thinking about this and considering the maximum size limit of 1 Snapper over 70cms, it is fair to suggest that more larger Snapper are remaining in the fishery, producing greater numbers of smaller fish which in turn has kept the " bio-mass "... in tonnage, in check. ??

    The Qld fisheries scientists have over the years developed management strategies to hopefully produce a sustainable fishery and these management tools have included mostly, minimum size limits and bag limits. The offshoot of this is rec fishers are using more technical apparatus to find / target specific species and also are traveling further afield to target other species that our fishing friends from the 1900's could not even have envisaged... like the deep water Bar Cod, Trevalla and Harpooka for instance. Let's not forget, our friends from 1900 were fishing land based and close inshore.... these areas have been decimated by our need for housing and infrastructure, land clearing, run off and more.... again, there can be no correlation between Snapper fishing in 1900 and 2000........

    LP
    Last edited by Lucky_Phill; 24-11-2014 at 02:09 PM.
    Kingfisher Painting Solutions:- Domestic and Commercial.

    For further information, contact details, quotes or advice - Click Here





  11. #11

    Re: 90 per cent drop in snapper stocks

    Does anyone think that the catch rates today are better than they were 30 , 40 , 50 years ago ? .

    Regardless of bag limits or slot limits - I cant ever remember anyone telling me of exceptional fishing.


    I just got back from Lord Howe Island ..... 20 years after my last trip - even with the lack of commercial fishing - the fishing was not as good ....... regardless of landing well over 100 king fish ( the fish were smaller & not as numerous) - & these are fast growing fish.

    Talk to anyone from Melb and ask about the snapper fishery ....... people just dont get dozens of fish anymore


    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  12. #12

    Re: 90 per cent drop in snapper stocks

    I think some of the 'old time" fisherman fished way offshore, but for basic fish (like Snapper) there was no need to travel, I remember stories from my father of deep fishing the shelf, they wold travel for hours (at 5 knots) to fish the shelf, the current would be too strong, so they would come back again, and fish for Snapper, I have a picture of the deck of the boat covered in big Snapper, I also have a picture at home of a group of fisherman (in suits and hats) at the entrance of the little creek near my place, with Jewfish 1.5 to 2m long piled on the sand, how they caught them is anyone's guess, one of the people in the photo is my Grandfather.

  13. #13

    Re: 90 per cent drop in snapper stocks

    Well, even just population will reduce numbers, pro or Recreational angler,

    FWIW, we have a closed season and it is being considered being extended,
    What didn't surprise me was that the pro's are now lobbying to get in before the opening day before the recreational guys have a chance
    What could go wrong!

    I know a pro that bought a house that was 800 meters from a well known squid location, others had to travel 20km to get there
    He said, "squid don't live long so it will never be fished out"
    You guessed it, 3 years, all gone as it was on a particular weed that the squid bred every year

    used to be a favourite squid spot I've known for 40 years, rec anglers with the current bag limit worked OK

    I spoke to a local pro I had known for many years, even fished alongside him,
    I spoke to him about fish stocks,
    He said that he was the stock of 3 generations of fisherman and his grandchildren would not be able to carry over the tradition as fish stocks were crashing due to over fishing, and that was from a lifetime pro!

  14. #14

    Re: 90 per cent drop in snapper stocks

    I have read a number of the reports of trips from 100 years or so ago. The current fishery is a pale reminder of what it was back then. There are a number of reasons for this decline. Habitat degradation probably tops the list but commercial and recreational effort along with commercial bycatch are all chipping away at the current Snapper biomass. There is no single silver bullet that is going to fix the situation and all of the impacts have to be addressed to provide a sustainable fishery into the future. At this point in time I think recreational fishers are doing the hard yards with the tight bag limits and size restrictions and its time to look at the other areas of pressure being exerted on the fish population.
    I don't think we will ever return to the days of taking an old timber cruiser (no electronics) to areas in the Rainbow Channel and fishing cord lines for a couple of hundred big Snapper. These days are long gone but there is still much to be done to protect our current stocks as well as our right to access them
    A Proud Member of
    "The Rebel Alliance"

  15. #15

    Re: 90 per cent drop in snapper stocks

    does anyone know the total commercial catch of Snapper in QLD for a year? and the methods used to catch them? no pro bashing or anything else, and would anyone have a reasonably accurate total catch by rec fishers? I do believe there are records for commercial catch rates going back quite some years, but it would be kind of interesting to see a year by year total.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Join us