Noble Boat <2yo Cracked and Sinking

[TREVELLY]

When I did some work on the boat to drill a hole into the top of the cabin for some electrical installation I had some filings I decided to flush out of the boat by washing through the cabin bung then the sub-floor and out the back bung - but when I flushed some water into the sub-floor it did not come our the back bung.

I had the boat a couple of months and was still doing small things to improve it as you do.

So I wondered why water wasn't getting from the front to the back through the sub-floor - so I lifted the inspection holes and found water in the middle compartment quite deep but trapped there.

I felt about on this separating or isolating wall and found there was a bung hole sealing off the centre compartment so it could not drain to where the bilge pump was.

I have no idea why there is a bung there or why you would want to isolate the sub-floor from the bilge pump.

The sub-floor was filling up from the lid on the duckboard being installed without an "O" ring and being constantly under water and the water not being able to reach the bilge pump - there was a heap of water in there.

I had a bit of a whinge about this way back then to Noble - when they were talking to us in this thread post 36 page 3 - there was a long list of things

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/sho...ght=nobleboats

Battery compartment and bilge pump compartment have drain holes out to back of boat - dry in calm sea submerged in any choppy sea hence water constantly drains into these compartments then on battery side into subfloor to bilge - so I get bilge every 20 minutes.

Some things are definitely happening at the factory - when I drained washdown pump compartment into subfloor (I drilled a hole) I was surprised it didn't come out the back drain holes, so I openned the inspection lids to area between motor and fuel tank - there is a partition with bung to isolate subfloor motor compartment to main subfloor - this bung was in and had heaps of finishing product on it - body filler call it what you will - took out the bung and the main subfloor then drained to rear letting out about 100 litres of water - is this smart? the front gets water in it cannot drain out rear or reach the bilge. Also the inspection lids between motor and back of boat - one had an "O"-ring seal and the other had none and looked like it never has - this is constantly under water and filling the boat on a choppy day - I bet I have to buy a complete inspection kit just to get a seal that should have been there.

GUYS I am not a whinger and most of it is attention to detail and to be honest I would have said nothing of this EXCEPT now having to rewire the boat I am really pissed!

You guys have a magnificient design hull but things like now having to rewire it more than take the shine off.

So this recent event is a actually second go they have had at sinking the boat - hmmm.

[Lucky_Phill]

A couple of other things worth mentioning with the boat that I found surprising when I first got the boat.

The boat had two holes at the rear that theoretically allowed the water to drain out of the boat - the one that allowed the battery compartment to drain out the back and over the duckboard was constantly under water as such the water drained into the battery compartment and into the sub-floor via the electrical opening where it was then being pumped out every couple of minutes by the bilge - I remedied these two drains that were filling the boat by putting in bungs - not a big deal but a silly thing in the design.

The second item was more of a concern.

I have a similar issue Trev.

The scuppers do not seal well and in moderate to heavy seas at rest water seeps into the area below the battery storage areas and ( used ) to go into the bilge area.

I ended up fixing the seals ( 95% ) and sikaflexed the hole where the cables ( electrics ) came up through the floor.

Still not happy with the seals on the scuppers. Yes my scuppers are partly covered with water 50% of the time at rest.

There are a few items that Noble fixed after they took over from Pacific Sportfish and two things were good.

Wrap around windscreen and the positioning of the fuel filler to mid boat.

cheers LP

[johncar]

Hi Trevelly, I don't think that is an uncommon thing having a bung in the bulkhead behind the fuel tank. I have owned a few Aussie built glass boats with that setup. So the rear bilge area in those boats was designed to take water and pump it out from the bilge but not allow it to flood the main hull area below the fuel tank and forward, Also good if one forgets to put the bungs in, less likely to sink the boat. But yeah from the other perspective, water entering the front wont reach the bilge, so I guess boat builders should make owners aware of that design feature so that you can have stratagies in differing situations. Typical of how loose the whole boat building industry is. I think Cruise Craft are among the few if not the only one who offers buyers an owners manual, although I have never seen one or know how useful it is.
I know my friend who bought a CC in 2010 had a hell time in locating some of the electrics that he had to fault find on. Anchor winch solenoid and Engine Bus were located in a fairly inaccessible area, I think he ended up cutting an access hole in the internal skin to get to it all. I think that sometimes the manufacturers take advantage of our love of boating fishing and whatever and just leave us to deal with many issues, minor and major.
The only boat I ever bought new that didn't have a big list of things to fix was my 2000 model 6.0M Seafarer Victory. It was pretty much spot on and fully fitted at the factory on the GC. the dealers only involvement was to take the money. I would have gone back to them I'm sure if they were still operating is such a way, very sad to see L F let it go. The worst experience was my HH680, I had 3 pages of faults, but mostly dealer fit up issues by Leisure Marine who I guess I can talk about now, still loved that boat though in spite of the hassle getting everything fixed. Did all of it myself at my own cost as I had no faith in them, they would have just wrecked it more.
My current Fisher is pretty spot on too but the previous owner had a lot of input and hands on control during the build and fitout. Still plenty of little projects to do though to keep me busy, half the fun of owning a tinnie. Gets it's 100 hour service tomorrow, more $$$...

[Greg P]

They certainly changed things around on them - for the worse. The deck should be fully sealed - any water (salt or rain) should drain via the scuppers when you open them, not into other compartments with no way out or even via the bilge. JBS platies did the same thing for some reason. As for those spin out inspection covers - seriously crap idea. The ones on the sportfish were just the same - step on them the wrong way and bang. Some guys made up alloy ones.

Agree about the scupper location on the sport fishes Phil - I changed the seals every autumn on the old girl regardless of condition.

How many drain holes are in the transom? My kill tanks in the fisher have internal piping to the transom that you can place a bung inside the kill tanks if wanted but they drain underway. Nothing goes into the bilge - if something comes out then there is a problem. Bilge also is piped separately out the transom.

[TREVELLY]

Hi Greg, the boat has three bungs at the rear - one for each compartment and yes separate pipe to the kill tank which has a bung that can be put in inside the killtank and yes this kill tank can flood and empty as it goes - it is a great feature to be honest and can be used as a floodable ballast similar to the barcrusher tubes but obviously doesn't drain as fast. The kill tank holds a couple of hundred litres so a good size.

John I suppose I am not against the internal middle chamber being isolated from the bilge pump if this section is not open to the duckboard and definitely not when this duckboard has a faulty inspection hatch with no "O" ring hence filling the boat with water where it can not be pumped out.

Yes i think the boating industry has a long way to go really.

From the shops we buy small items and get great manuals and yet with boats we pay a fortune and then given no instruction, no idea of what they have done, no recommendations on what is where or how it is done - yes I know real men don't read manuals - but to be given something that shows even something as basic as where the air cells are and how it is isolated (bung locations would be handy), where the electricals are and plumbing and any relevant maintenance.

Yes I did have a bit of a spray in that thread way back when I bought the boat as naively I thought having spent $80K on a BMT it would be right - wow - learnt a lot over the past couple of years.

There is no doubt that with each thing I have plumbed up and each electrical item I have rewired and replaced I am learning a lot and putting in far better stuff than was there before - I just expected that when I bought the boat I would be just adding things and tweaking it not replacing every bit of electrics and all the plumbing, and then rebuilding the hull just so it would work and not fall apart or sink.

Once I get over the next hurdle of having the transom strengthened, then hopefully in time this will all become a distant memory and there will be a string of just good times and happy events with it - I am sure it will.

It is good to be back on the water again - gtg in a weeks time - looking forward to that and some of the boys are talking deep sea ooglie fishing - that sounds like a lot of winding but plenty of fun too.

Can anyone PM me the contact details for Ben Noble please? Phone number would be good.

[John_R]

I have those plastic spin-out inspection ports - they often leak. I grease the o-rings and tighten as much as possible. The area of the top port is open to the bilge.

I have a stand pipe for the wiring that goes into the battery compartment and is maybe 50mm higher than the floor of that compartment. Not fun to try getting a transducer plug through, but at least no water from the deck gets in there.

Also only the big keel bung on the back - aside from the pipe to the kill tank. I should ask Ben Noble if I should get bungs in the "sealed" compartments I suppose. Broomey saying his deck not sealed around the fuel pipe blew me away as that would go into a "sealed chamber". Have not checked mine as it's behind a plate. Will do though.

Trev - Google Noble Engineering Pty Ltd, they are still at Clontarf. They may know what's happened to their Chinese mates - and probably feeling a fair bit of shadenfreude. After what they got done to them - they deserve to.

Sick of water coming in thru the scuppers, I replaced the flap held by bungy type with cast alloy spring loaded ones. Much better, but they are a fraction higher, so have to get the boat on a good down slope to get all the water out after a wash.

[TREVELLY]

John,

I did replace the dud inspection hatch and yes also put silicon grease on the "O" ring to assist seal.

Stand pipe in my boat is only 15mm elevated above floor so when water used to go into there it readily drained into the sub-floor with bilge pump running every 15-20 minutes. I won't seal this with silicon as putting the small bung into the rear of the boat has stopped ready flooding of this area from water outside the boat. Also doing work on the boat I want to keep this access readily available - used it recently for rewiring the new bigger bilge pump I put in a week ago.

I would get bungs in the rear of the sealed tanks so you can open them after each trip to ensure they are staying good - you can see in pic below the bung locations.

Yes my fuel lines going through the floor are sealed at the floor level and I am sure they all should be - what good is a floor draining into that compartment with no pump in it.

I am going to link those outer air chamber compartments to the central cell with the pump - I will only use 10mm hole about 100mm up from base - logic is if water is getting in there over extended time it reaches the pump but if the cell becomes flooded by bigger damage and gets a surge in it then the smaller hole will not readily flood and overload the other compartments above and beyond pump capacity.

The back flap draining the floor which infact takes water in - well I have sealed that lightly with silicon to stop water coming in and I have put 5 bungs into this to service modest water intake and hosing out when required but the seal can readily be broken open incase of emergency. Having said all that I find the best place to wash the boat and muck into is the kill tank as it is a very big opening that is very easy to sweep and hose to and it readily drains out the back far better than trying to hose through any bungs or flaps at the back.

One place that did surprise me that water was getting onto the floor was from within the livebait tank - the top front face not sealed at all, there was a big gap, so the water was coming into the hull from this tank - have siliconed it properly now. Just poor attention to detail in manufacture.

Picture attached shows the rear of the boat and bung locations.

bungs.JPG

[johncar]

Hey I was lowering the engine on my Fisher yesterday so in light of this thread I took a few shots inside my transom. Bit of a different setup in there with the ballast tubes. In between the ballast tubes there is also an I beam right through the boats length which has a gusset plate welded up to the transom as well. Just a bit hard to make out in the pics.
Anyway thought you might be interested is seeing what other builders have done in there.

[Jarrah Jack]

Those welds are objects of beauty JC.

[cormorant]

Those alloy scuppers are crap. Get a local guy who repairs inflatables to make you some tube scuppers made from a tube of Inflatable material. Stabi have a similar idea.

The alloy ones won't "burst " open like people believe they will.

[tinny80]

hi mate, tragic story. i remember not too long ago when noble super v were regarded as the one of the best plate boats in oz. if you had a super v you were killing it. i take it this one was built in china? was wondering how long it would take for the quality to suffer. but it is like anything. i have a 20 year old quinnie, its been flogged but never had any major issues. i know people who have had issues with newer ones. it doesnt matter what brand it is there hand built so always a chance something may break. one thing though is that when you fork out your hard earned cash for what is supposed to be a quality product, and you do have a drama no one wants to know about it.

From what i have seen in the photos, there are some issues with the welding, but also there doesnt seem to be enough bracing in the pod transom area. im not an engineer though, but have built a few plateys, and spend my days swinging of a welder, welding aluminium. the vertical channels dont need to be fully welded, but in my opinion the stitches are to small and mate they look like they were done by a first year apprentice. i also think that the channels should be fully welded to the bottom sheets. on the boats that i have built we have run a triangular brace, usually 5 or 6 mm thick 5083 off each of the channels, that is then fully welded to the structural stringers or to a large 5mm plate that is welded directly to the bottom sheet, to lock the transom/pod together. is that cracked bog on the outside of the duckboard or cracked weld.

it is hard to say from the pics, but the area of the boat does look poorly built. maybe the boats i have worked on have been way overbuilt, but i havent heard of any coming back, for that reason anyway.

to me it looks like quite an easy fix to get the transom solid as a rock so you never have to give it another thought. the only problem is access. thats why most boat builders will overbuild that area, so they never have to get in there once the floor is welded in. basically i think the nobles are a excellent boat, unique and very innovtive, but maybe the quality has gone downhill. i am presuming the boat is still under warranty. if thats the case i would get a couple of quotes, from reputable boat builder, not just an aluminium fabriction shop. keep harrassing noble but obviously its doing no good. i would be having a good chat to the dealer who sold you the boat. i feel for them because its not their fault, but at the end of the day they are the ones that are selling boats built over seas and should be standing behind there products. maybe that is why the dont sell them anymore but it shouldnt be your problem.

not long ago i drove from brisbane to cairns, to bring a boat back to brisbane for a company i worked for. there was a small issue with the boat, and could have quite easily been repaired locally for a fraction of the cost, but i guess that is the lengths some companies will go to to stand behind there products.

would be interested to know how you go, and if it looks like you may have to wear the cost of the repair, i can probably reccommend a couple of different people who would be able to do the repairs for a resonable price.

[TREVELLY]

Back of the boat repairs will have stiffeners something like what John has in the back of his boat.

I will get the foot plate the pump and switch sit on removed as they are in the way.

The vertical channels will be welded properly along the back of the boat and at the base where they meet the bottom plate. Yes they are welded sufficient for now but not shown in this earlier pic - just using this pic for showing the intended plates to be added.

Yes to do this they will need a good size hole made in the duck-board.

There will be three vertical stiffeners put in from the back of the boat to the inner divider - these are shown in red on pic below.

In addition to these there will be a transverse flat horizontal plate running across the back of the boat shown in yellow in pic below.

These stiffeners incorporate what is shown in the earlier Noble which has the keel stiffener and the horizontal transverse stiffener PLUS it will have the vertical stiffeners to each channel as is current practice - when they remember to do it.

So with these improvements I reckon I should have a boat with a solid transom.

I won't be waiting till the next motor service - that is just too far away - I don't want this hanging over me any longer than necessary.

I wont be taking this boat any further than Brendale 5km down the road for the repairs - Jimmy is a good welder - thanks for the offer though - just let them get over the recent influx with bluewater boats coming their way to be finished then when it gets back to normal I will put mine in for repair after Keith takes the motor off and I take up the floor and the fuel tank out again.

proposed-repairs.jpg

[Grand_Marlin]

Hey Trev,

Just for the record I didn't hear back from Jason.

I have no idea why... one can only guess.

Cheers

Pete

[TREVELLY]

Hey Trev,

Just for the record I didn't hear back from Jason.

I have no idea why... one can only guess.

Cheers

Pete

Thanks Pete,

Jason can't deny knowledge of this thread and the problem with my boat, he has been contacted by every means possible with the right of reply for zip.

If he thinks being quiet this will go away - it won't - a number of other avenues are being explored and progressed.

I am not vindictive but he can not just ignore negligence with no attempt to remedy or be accountable.

This reminds me in some of the NRMA commercials of old where they used "ostrich insurance" - head in the sand and hope it all goes away - I know it has worked for paint claims, but mine is no paint claim.

I am way past thinking he has a good excuse.

[Gon Fishun]

Trevelly.
For what its worth, and you have probably visited this site on the web, here is the link. It also has a link to the BIAA.
http://www.nmsc.gov.au/recreational_...?MID=24&CID=24

Twas a bit to much for me to read at this time but it might help or it may not.
A little bit of knowledge can be dangerous, but it can be helpful also.
In my mind, the boat builders are putting lives at risk and need to be accountable.

Cheers.