Spiral Guides- how do they work?

[ldnicolai1@comcast.n]

Actually GLoomis use to build all their casting rods like it at one stage ( i think it was the early eighties) , but changed back to the conventional way because sales dropped.

I wish I had read this yesterday. I spent an hour or two with Gary Loomis (GLoomis) last night and would have loved to have discussed it with him. I live a few miles south of Woodland Washington, USA where both Gloomis and Lamiglas are located.

I have been building Seeker and Calstar spiral wrapped rods for several years now. The advantage of the spiral wrap is two fold. First, it makes the rod stable in the hand by eliminating torque on the blank. Second, it allows you to fight a heavy fish without a fighting belt because you can use a Fuji mushroom buttcap instead of a gimbal.

For demonstration purposes, here is my friend and former football pro Chuck fighting a Pargo with a Seeker 870 and an Avet JX out of Quepos, Costa Rica las month. Look at how quickly this rod breaks over:

Put the wood to him, Chuck...

How close together would the guides have to be to keep the line from touching the blank if this rod were wrapped conventionally. Wanna see the fish?

Pretty nice Pargo.

Anyway, there is more to this twisted stick stuff than novelty. People that I have built them for have nearly always come back for more.

Nice site. Here is one more pic to go. Me with a big halibut on my boat out of Newport Oregon, USA. The rod is a Seeker 670 and the reel is an Avet EX04/2 (the dog is my late lab, Lord Nicolai).

[Bearclaw]

Lord Nic,
I stand corrected if this is not true about Gloomis and spiral wrapping, but I was given this information when asking a question some time ago on a well known US rodbuilding forum a what appeared to be a factory rolled spiral wrapped rod I was shown at a tackle shop several years ago.

[ldnicolai1@comcast.n]

It may be true that Loomis' were all spiral at one time but I doubt it. I have a couple of LCI rods from before Gary started GLoomis and neither is spiral wrapped. (LCI = Loomis Composite Inc) I didn't say that to embarrass you if it was not true, I just wish I had talked to him about spiral wrapped rods. Oh well, I will see him again shortly. We are organizing local sport fishermen to get gillnets out of the Columbia River and he is heading up the effort.

I think the reason that they have not caught on with the average Joe Fisherman is that spiral wrapping favors one-piece rods and the majority of salmon/steelhead rods up here are two piece. It is a natural for one-piece salty rods like Seeker/Sabre/Calstar.

Lord Nic was my labrador retriever. I'm just Steve.

[Owen]

Lord Nic was my labrador retriever. I'm just Steve.

Well at least we sorted out who was boss

[4x4frog]

Spiral wraps are an intersting concept. There was a a rod building article about one in a recent issue of a fishing mag' in the last couple of months.
I'd like to build one in the near future as I am looking for a rod for my little Iron IR3 reel. I like the idea that it follows the natural twist of the rod under load.
Do you still use a trigger grip mount for the smaller reels?

[Bearclaw]

Hey Steve I have a mate Ken Preston over there, who has a lab but his was covered in finish. Do you know Ken.

Probably my wording was off track saying "all at one stage" should have probably been put trialed or produced a range of them at some time.

You didn't embarrass me, I probably shouldn't quote someone (even if he is a well known forum owner/show organiser over there). Without getting the facts, but if you email Gloomis these days you don't get the same reply as when Gary owned the company rather than just running it.

Keep up the imput and can you let me know what Gary says.

bearclawrods@irpimus.com.au

[cammac]

Thanks Steve for yr input and great pics - sorry to hear of Lord Nics passing!.
Not sure on the length of the rod yr using in the pic but looks like it has eight guides which wouldnt be far off a conventional overhead setup?

sorry for my ignorance on the subject but again on yr rod looks like the first six guides on the rod are basically underneath the rod whereas the stripper and the next guide seem to have quite a large rotation - do the others have the same degrees of rotation or are they more or less in a straight line? is the reel on top of the backbone as per conventional overhead? I shud read that article eh!!

cheers Cam

[Noelm]

OK I will repeat my first statement on this, I have built lots of spiral wraps over the years BUT I am yet to be convinced that they provide enough avantage of any type to warrant going out to buy one "just because" they have some novelty value and I am sure may have some minutely provable advantage but not a lot, and any advantage can be good I agree there, but still not totally conviced on any great "world news" that they are any better to use (and I have used them on a lot of good fish) than a standard bind, there that's my thoughts on this (for what it's worth)

[grave41]

Bugger,My 3 piece All Star titanium blank has gone from a spiral wrap back to ordinary. But i love my other spiral wrap. Graham

[cammac]

Can u actually buy them off the shelf in Australia? I mean a factory built rod not a custom job!

[Owen]

Can u actually buy them off the shelf in Australia? I mean a factory built rod not a custom job!

Yes, Shimano is doing them.

[ldnicolai1@comcast.n]

Hey Steve I have a mate Ken Preston over there, who has a lab but his was covered in finish. Do you know Ken.

No, I don't know him.

You didn't embarrass me, I probably shouldn't quote someone (even if he is a well known forum owner/show organiser over there). Without getting the facts, but if you email Gloomis these days you don't get the same reply as when Gary owned the company rather than just running it.

Gary sold GLoomis and I don't what his extent or involvement is, if any. I don't believe he owns a forum up here and I don't think he has done any work as a show organizer.

About 15 years ago he started the group, Fish First, in order to save a run of endangered Coho salmon ina tributary of the Lewis river. Presently, he is heavily involved in organizing a Pacific Northwest chapter of the CCA to address salmon and steelhead commercial overharvest.

Not sure on the length of the rod yr using in the pic but looks like it has eight guides which wouldnt be far off a conventional overhead setup?

sorry for my ignorance on the subject but again on yr rod looks like the first six guides on the rod are basically underneath the rod whereas the stripper and the next guide seem to have quite a large rotation - do the others have the same degrees of rotation or are they more or less in a straight line? is the reel on top of the backbone as per conventional overhead? I shud read that article eh!!

The stripper is aligned with the conventional top of the rod or angled to either side a little dependign on whether the owner is right or left handed. (The stripper guide can be used to help bring the line to the thumb for non-levelwind reels.)

The third guide and all the rest to the tip are all on the center bottom of the rod. For these rods, the first and third guides were positioned and the second or "bumper" guide is positioned where the line crosses the rod as it transitions to the bottom. Here is another pic that may illustrate it better. This rod is a Seeker 670-7' rated 30(40)50lbs. Here it is hanging 40oz of kead and a 3lb deadbait for halibut off the coast of Oregon in 100+ fathoms about 30nm off Newport.


The Pacific Halibut....$14 US dollars a lb. This one was 52 inches and around 40 kilos.


And just so you don't think everyday on the Pacific at the 45th parallel is a walk in the park, here is the same place a week later. Yes, that is my 23' boat 30 nautical miles west of the U.S.. We go 50-60nm after tuna. She now has a Honda 225hp.

I am sure may have some minutely provable advantage but not a lot, and any advantage can be good I agree there, but still not totally conviced on any great "world news" that they are any better to use (and I have used them on a lot of good fish) than a standard bind, there that's my thoughts on this (for what it's worth)

If you are using a spiral wrapped rod and a gimbal/belt then you will see little advantage because you have kept the rod from rotating with the gimbal. Where they shine is fishing livebait for feeder tuna like albies and little yellowfin using 20-30lb gear and mushroom buttcaps. Being able to keep the foreward hand open instead of gripping the rod eliminates the forearm cramps that tend to come after the third or forth fish on a livebait stop. I also see fewer incidents of tip wrap when I am using t 9 or 10' rod and braid for freshwater bobber fsihing tidewater for big King chinook salmon. Your milage may vary...

[Noelm]

OR, you could just use a threadline and forget the whole thing!! including your gimbal belt, but still "to each his/her own".

[cammac]

Hmmm Noel now I not sure what your not in favour of here - spiral guide rods or overhead reels or both ! I dont see too many eggbeaters being used for serious game fishing ! or do u catch big Marlin etc on spinning gear??!

Thanks again Steve for your info on the subject and again Great Pics - 40 oz of lead thats pretty serious stuff on a Rod!!