chris another consideration for ur figures is that the last 5 yrs represent drought years . as im sure u are well aware prawn stocks [as with fish stocks] are rainfall dependant. how can u argue diminishing resources in drought yrs........if i was able as a profisher to access the same drought relief as a farmer perhaps i would be able in drought yrs be able to reduce my effort to better reflect the fishery stock rAther than make decisions based on economic need. the bay does not export it is locally produced seafood for local people......any argument including export/import issues is for the bay a moot point. perhaps reccos and pros shud be working together to identify the real culprit re fish stocks. maybe we shudnt waste our time trading statistics and look for ways to increase habitat so that both sectors may enjoy their respective legislative rights. hows this for a start .......alll canal developements in s/e qld to be required to [at their cost] reafforestate these canals w/ mangrove......fantastic concept..........
again though i doubt[as u do mine] the veracity of these figures tanks for ur rational involvement in the process
oh chris by the way prawns a plenty in the bay too. just had a fantastic coupla days fishing . work hard doing short shots in a variety of areas to a. maximise returns thru quality
b.maximize returns thru targeting large[ mature prawns that have spawned]
c. identify areas w/ the least by catch
i do this every trip..............
my mission statement is
enviromentally sustainable commercialization of ocean based resources.
morton bays fishers fish smarter not harder
Look out Waldo,
after seeing channel 7 news tonight............
and you were trying so hard to state your case
CASE CLOSED
darren
yeah mate i saw the media beatup on profishers. where was the evidence mate that this fish came from trawlers. who were these trawler operators that said it was trawl bycatch i didnt see any of them intewrviewed or even quoted by name. fish kill happens naturally during times of heavy rain when the water becomes so silty from run of that the fish cant breathe in the water and they die. i noticed the news claim that this dead fish was noted along a 25 km strip does not this suggest a natural response to the amount of silt/poisons/runoff from developement rather than the bycatch from trawlers. did u notice that they were waiting on toxicology reports from the epa......mmmmmmmmmm gotta keep ur minds open folks .........one day they may turn on ur industry and ull have gotten rid of the only true allies u guys have got.
we are ,at the heart of the matter,all fishermen/women.
I think at this stage of the debate, both sides are beating their heads against a wall.
Yes the majority of Rec's are against inshore trawl operations.
Yes by-catch is a necessary evil in trawlers, as once any fish passes the excluder device its as good as dead.
Their is no device know to man or even invented thats going to stop by-catch.
Yes their should be a reduction in numbers if catch percentages are consisently down.
But where does that leave the lively hood of trawler families and in particular the bait industry.
How many out their catch their own bait, compared to buying from a bait shop, would be a good questionaire.
There's not much you can do about all this, except complain.
Yes we will continually bash the trawlers about by-catch.
Fisheries wont do anything until their researchers proves that their are too many inshore trawlers compared to catch percentages.
so for the time being we just have to grin and bear and accept what is happening.
It would be like Steve saying he has to set a quota on the number of members on the board, so does he go about getting rid of the unwanted numbers.
regards
I would like to know what happened to the deleted posts - was it due to the 29 hrs maintenance?
webby mate thanx 4 ur latest post. re bycatch exiting exclusion devices dead u got that all wrong....... do a search in dpi or fishery web site please. these devices do work so to say nothing is being done or can be done is untrue. i have posted these sentiments before but the recco and pro fishers are a different side to the same coin. we are all at heart driven by the samething..... we are all fishermen/women. if the greens cud get rid of us 2morrow who do u think would be next........we should be working together on these and all fishery issues to make australia world leaders in fishery management thru stakeholder cooperation.
Hi I might not have explained it right, what i meant is any fish going thru the excluder into the catch net is as good as dead.
regards
and my point is the best scientific evidence is 90% exclusion of adult (table) fish down to between 40-50% exclusion for juveniles. Stay out of the nurseries this says - it also says what you see in the codend is a percentage of what exists at the front of the excluder.Originally Posted by webby
BTW i support the existence of responsible pro-fishing. I think it needs to get a lot smarter. Things like the soft shell fishery that value adds to a wild resource for example, that value adding process cushions the resource against the need to "harvest" to the maximum quota.
A wise farmer usually doesn't attempt to market in times of drought, they tough it out & leave the reminent energy in the system. Some incredibly wise local lamb farmers have made more money locally during drought than they could have made internationally by downsizing, specialising & value adding to targeted market segments.
Farmers on the land gain subsidies because "they reap what they sow" - when was the last time an old growth forester or miner gained a subsidy due to drought ...
the men on the land though are responsible for far more "fish kills" than they are given credit for.
I hope Waldo, that future pro-fishers see themselves (as you appear to be) as custodians of a resource they have the privilege (as granted by the peoples representatives) to make a living from.
Rec fishers have been responsible in the past for hammering stocks but then in increasing moments of sobriety introducing concepts such as bag limits & minimum / maximum sizes, catch & release competitions, baitless fishing, barbless fishing, impoundment fishing & restocking ( the popularity growth of which has outgrown wild stock fishing). Much of this has come out of the fishing clubs - those the most criticised by the uninformed.
Get the nets away from the mangroves - even you see the importance of those special plants.
cheers,
chris
thanx for ur comments chris and webby. chris at the moment fishers are no allowed to access drought funding as farmers are. no rain no prawns. so comments on farmers toughing it out during droughts are a little insensitive. i always aim to maximise my economic yeild by target large 'clean' [ with the least by catch] prawn. no where where i work is anywhere near the mangroves. and webby to say any fish that ends up in the codend is dead is untrue. any larger live fish or crabs are thrown back as soon as we spill a shot...otherwise they damage the prawn. we hose down the tray to give any live fish the best chance of returning live and sort the shots quickly [ which is about the prawn primarily]. and hey maybe reccos and pros should team up and tryn get developers to reafforrestae canal estates etc with mangroves....they would have a huge case to answer for the loss of habitat etc.
but again guys thanx for ur rational and considered reponses.
"If I was able as a pro fisher to access the same drought relief as a farmer..."
And if farmers were able to access free stock I'd be a f#*ken millionair,drought relief comes in the form of interest free loans to keep the animals alive when there is nothing for them to eat,unlike your "stock" which can be left to it's own devices untill it's ready to be plundered again, it's not for a paid holiday,and another point, you my freind are a commercial fisherman,there is very little that is professional in the way the majority of you lot go about your bussiness.
Waldo. Credit to you for your persistance. My issue isn't with responsible pro's. I have a good pro mate, i've been out with him, and can't fault his practises. However. As you said, wait for the tox. report on this fish kill. If it is due to run off, such is life. If it is due to unwanted by catch, we have a huge problem. It would mean that this happens regularly these guys put a #shot out.
In every industry, there are good and bad operators. The good achieve there profit through good management ie. lamb farmers through the drought. The bad however through lack of knowledge, laziness or just poor management work less efficiently. To use prawn trawlers as an example.
For you to retain your profit margin, you selectively short shot in areas that through experience, study and knowledge will give you the best result per shot as in high prawn content, low by-catch. However, the bad operator will drag his nets for longer, over a larger area to produce the same weight of prawns, but with a much higher by-catch percentage. At the end of the day, he has a boat to pay for, house, cars kids blah blah blah. My point is he doesn't care about by catch or sustainability. It is a job to him. However, most rec fishers, and I stress most enjoy a day on the water whether they catch fish or not. The pro doesn't have that luxury every time he goes out. The lower his percentages, the the more damage he is likely to do chasing a dollar.
You can argue every point that rec fishers throw at you, you cannot deny that this practise happens.
Probably the person with the best chance of #catching these guys is guys like yourself. It is in your best interest.
Waldo, sustainability is the argument not pro's v rec's. Anyone doing the wrong thing enviromentally should be stopped and held accountable. The clincher is that a #1 pro boat doing the wrong thing is way more devastating than one rec boat.
Mate, if you do the right thing credit to you.
To take the guns off pro's for a second, I was on a charter with a group of 10 from work. Half day. 6 fish each kept. That is one boat. 60 fish. My self and another mate released most of our catch. Every other legal size fish was kept. Mostly just legal squire. Only four of us took fish home. I was disgusted. At no stage did the charter operator ask how many fish we wanted to keep. How often does this happen????? #>
gee if farmers cud keep their superphosphate outa the water systems etc and as to the free stock dont they get their food for free in non drought years, arent their animals procreating for free.... sum pretty silly arguments there im afraid
hey theres sum reccos out there flick that engage in bodgy practices as well.......im not trying to tarnish ur entire recco body with them...........our problem is that the media only focuses on the negative aspects of this industry....i dont see any media input as to wot fishermen are doing to deal with the specific bycatch issue of the moment.......no mention of the industries response in the developement of a code of conduct etc.all u guys see is the headlines from sum unnamed source claiming tonnes of fish caught for 6 k [ a bucket] of prawn and with no further evidence or proof look no further for the truth. when im less of a luddite and can work out how to attach a picture here ill offer u sum alternatives to the media hysteria.
"Some prety silly arguments there I'm afraid"
Yeah right back at ya mate.
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