dangerous vehicles

[ronnie12]

Poor old legend, how totally immature and sad is it that he is begging authorities not to let anybody say anything negative about his play toy, this is the mental attitude of some 4 x 4 drivers that largely discussed about in the media. It proves the point beyond any justification.

[blaze]

Ronnie may I ask are you also advocating the banning of people movers, tradesman vans as their height and visibity as often worse than the average 4 x4, I own a range rover that is used for a purpose and one3 of those is towing a 20' glass boat. Would you feel safe seeing me coming toward you if I was towing it with a souped up vw. I think not
cheers
blaze

[theoldlegend]

Well Ronnie,

With you response to my post, you've demonstrated to me just how stupid you are. I don't even own a 4WD!!

My point was that the administrators shouldn't let low lifes like you on to the site. Mate, you're a total waste!!

TOL

[ronnie12]

well we can all take a deep breath that you dont drive a four wheel drive, somehow we all feel safer. The moment you introduce name calling you have already lost the argument, how sad.

[theoldlegend]

Ronnie, you faggott!!

You know, you are like an itchy ar# se hole, very annoying, but nothing to worry about.

Better still, why don't you cover yourself from head to toe with antiseptic cream and like a pus filled pimple, you might disappear.

You're a waste mate!! People like you should have been flushed down the toilet at birth. God, I wish I had a means of knowing how I can find out where you come from.

TOL

[Fishin_Dan]

There are ways TOL.... But it's just not worth it.... Most people walk around sh#t they see in the street, not tread on it deliberately!

Ronnie12 - What car do you drive? What 4wd did you own? I'm curious as to try and work out where your theories came from...

[munch]

Ronnie ronnie ronnie, it is blatantly clear that you are just another one of these 2wd drivers that never learned to drive your 4b and couldn't handle it. thank god you no longer own one as it is the idiots like you that give REAL 4b drivers a bad name. Most drivers of modified rigs have a way better understanding of their vehicle dynamics than the average 2b know it all like you so i suggest that you keep your narrow minded and poorly educated views to yourself >

[Owen]

Can't believe this thread is still going

Ronnie,
You have started a thread and made several claims and generalisations.
As the "prosecution" it is up to you to prove your case.

Let's review.

* They are much more likely to roll in an accident causing deaths

Yes, they have a higher centre of gravity than a sedan. They also have a wider wheelbase to help counter it.
Buses and trucks have a higher still COG, thus making them even more likely to roll over. However "likely" is not really relevent.
Please post documented evidence of the number(s) of deaths to the occupants of 4wds which could be reasonably expected NOT to have been fatal had said occupants been in a sedan. Please note that you will need to provide evidence that in the same acciden that a sedan would not have rolled.

Many lack crumble rates and safety features

For many years 4wd vehicles, being passenger vehicles, have had to pass ADR69 specification. According to the law they have sufficient safety features to be deemed fit for our roads.
I'd have to say I'd rather be involved in an accident in my Patrol with all that plastic, light metal and an airbag in front of me than in the FC holden I owned as a first car at an age statistically where I was many more times likely to have said accident.
So your point is what exactly?
Ban all cars that don't have crumple zones & airbags?
Please expand on your logic and how (if we are to accept it) that it should be applied in making our roads safer.

They cause deaths when they hit smaller vehicles due to the extreme height of bumbers

Evidence please.
Please note that you will have to demonstrate that under the same conditions with regard to speed, safety equipment being used in the "smaller car" angle of impact etc, that the same accident conditions between two cars of equal size would not have resulted in a fatality.

Many have unnecessary bull bars or rod holders turning them into leathal weapons

Unnecessary as defined by whom?
Please give statistical and case evidence to back your claim that fitment of a bullbar "turns a vehicle into a lethal weapon".
You might also wish to forward a copy to the Highway Patrol seeking the immediate removal of such fittings from police vehicles.

They are slow to accelerate or pass vehicles and take longer to stop

And a volvo wagon is slower to accelerate and takes longer to stop than say a Subaru RX.
Are you suggesting that a Subaru RX is to be considered an intrinsically safer vehicle because of that fact?
All vehicles must be driven within their capabilities and with the primary aim of not having an accident should they not?
Sorry, can't consider this one to be an argumant which may be accepted in ecvidence against 4wd's specifically.

Blind spots on these vehicles have cause many deaths

Evidence please.
Once again, you'll need to show that in the same set of circumstances one could reasonably expect that said fatality would not have occured if a 4wd were not involved.

Having ridden motorcycles for many years I am particularly aware of blind spots in vehicles.
If people would learn to adjust their mirrors properely, than blind spot accidents would be dramatically reduced.
I have my wing mirrors adjusted out so I can see into the lane either side of me and so that just before motorcycle leave to view of my inside mirror it is visible in my wing mirror. Properly adjusted like this you most probably can't see the side of your car using the wing mirror, so if reversing they must be re-adjusted.
When was the last time you checked that you had no blind spots in your mirrors Ronnie?
When your wife or other significant family members drive your car, do you insist they do the same with ALL mirrors?
Or is it easier to blame it on the car after someone gets killed?

cheers,

Owen

[cooky]

dn't handle it. thank god you no longer own one as it is the idiots like you that give REAL 4b drivers a bad name. Most drivers of modifiwiled rigs have a way better understanding of their vehicle dynamics than the average

I don't have a modified 4b, unless you call a K&N filter and large exhaust modified, but I completely agree with this statement. proper 4b drivers (ones that venture off road occassionally) will or should develop a much better understanding of their handling dynamics. In fact I know where the outside left hand wheel is within cm's. I know each corner of my vehicle, because 4 wheel driving in tight spaces you really need to. I also enjoy killing cane toads in NQ so it's very important to know exactly where each tyre is . An old lady wrote into the paper recently about one of her solutions to young people driving and that was to do like her kids did and flog an old car around a paddock for fun. I couldn't agree more. I never had a paddock, but found them and it takes a lot to panic me. I'm still convinced many accidents are caused through panic rather than knowing your vehicles limits and AVOIDING an accident.

Anyway I have a BUNDY RUM can waiting for me and I've got to get up early in the morning to tow my boat with my 4x4.... I think I'm already scaring Ronnie.

[Owen]

I'm still convinced many accidents are caused through panic rather than knowing your vehicles limits and AVOIDING an accident.

Ne'er a truer word said cooky.
Can't recall the number of times I've heard bike riders (including a cop recently) say they "laid their bike down" to avoid an accident with a car.

Heeeelllloooo!!!!!
When you take the bike off it's wheels, you have already HAD the accident!
It's really shorthand for "I applied too much rear brake and lost it" or "I haven't trained well enough in accident avoidance".
Sometimes to avoid an accident you throw out the anchors. Sometimes you grab a huge handfull of throttle. The trick is in deciding in a fraction of a second which is going to save your life.

cheers,

Owen

[revs57]

I said goodbye to this thread a couple of weeks ago hoping it would die...it's taking up space and must be giving Ronnie some jollies...a bit of literary masterbation I suppose...produces a mess and nothing of lasting consequence comes from it...

Owen, all Ronnie will do (because its all he can do) is come back with more generalisations, cutting/biting comments to egg this thing on...for a bloke that opens a thread with the "I don't want to open up a can of worms"...obviously he did want to...and we've played his game...

I've been driving 4x4's for 25 years...never been in an accident, never caused an accident...never come close to any of the things that Ronnie has raised in his "research" to attempt to sledge 4X4's and their drivers

I reckon we should all ignore and boycott this thread from here on as the arguments are all based in speculations and biasedness, and let it die...

Lets freeze this thing out and move onto more productive stuff...

Cheers

Rhys

[Owen]

I tend to agree with you Rhys except that the reason this thread is still going is that people are arguing against the generalisations.
As I said, we don't have to prove our case.
If Ronnie can provide verifiable independant documentary evidence to back up his claims, then he is within his rights to hold those views (and to express them here).
If (as we all expect) his comments are based on heresay, speculation ignorance with no evidence to support them, then either
a: Ronnie being presumably an intelligent man will revise his opinions or;
b: Ronnie will continue to hold these false beliefs despite there being no factual evidence to support them and demonstrate himself to be a fool and not worthy of any respect by anyone here.

I can respect someone I don't like or with whom I don't hold the same views.
But I won't tolerate fools.

cheers,

Owen

[theoldlegend]

Hi Rhys, I agree.

If we just ignore him, he hopefully won't post more drivel.

TOL

[ronnie12]

Dear Old Legend, thanks for your uneducated poorly written response, if it was not so funny it would almost be sad, really not worth responding to.
Your inability along with a couple of immature friends to even understand the subject let alone debate sensibly in a mature adult fashion leaves a lot to be desired. Your pathetic attempt of humour and name calling, which instantly loses your argument and creditability, highlights not only your character and personality but worst still, your response borders on a physical threat, how incredibility sad and pathetic.
Mate, it is you that should be giving addresses, you need to be found and get professional help. You and a couple of your friends surely must be an embarrassment to the majority of decent Ausfish members, they possibly are being polite and not informing you.
These surely must be some of the loose nuts behind the wheel of the 4 x 4s at Double Island Point on weekends, thank goodness they are in the minority and are easily identified as per responses. I state again 237 rescues just on Moreton Island a year by QAS.
I amusely have always found that those who pat themselves on the back for being skilled driver of their so called modified vehicles are usually the most hopeless. My unblemished record for 35 year in all types of vehicles including 4 x 4s speaks for itself.
As for the individials who blatantly abuse the law once they leave the bitumen witnessed every weekend at Double Island, god help the innocent who get caught up with their boyish skills. In the wrong hands I say again these vehicles are a weapon of mass destruction , only last fortnight in Brisbane another lost control and ended up rolling over as many do, this time on top of a cyclist. Then you get the fools that raise them even higher with their so called modifications.
There has been much debate over the last 12 months on the mental state of some of these drivers and this exercise has surely highlighted this fact, fortunately this does not apply to 90 per cents of Ausfish members only an unfortunate sad few.
I am sure these tantrum throwers with their blunt poisonous pens will not absorb this message and once again pen absurd and child like replies as they huddle together possibly sharing the same brain, however its certainly extremely entertaining and humorous. Who knows they may feel a little better about themselves and maybe one day pull their tiny heads out of the sand and see the bigger picture? I am totally convinced that a few go to bed with a photo of their vehicle hugged to their chest, heard of tree huggers I can identify the car huggers. Dare to have an in depth conversion with them on other subjects, I think not, how pathetic would tht be.


Cheers Ronnie

[revs57]

like i said...literary masterbation..completley ignore Owens questions...egging on with personal cutting barbs intended to make the blood pressure rise...yep literary masterbation...makes a mess...produces nothing worthwhile...