Regulation confusion

[Nugget]

As I've mentioned in a previous post (thanks for all the species too) I'm trying hard to put together a simplified version of the new regulations.
Hopefully this will be available as a sticker or download for members.
The problem is that it is almost impossible to put a simple set of rules together that help anglers comply with the changes.

Just to complicate the issue further, the hot topic of discussion on Sunday's Talking Fishing program was the use of scale bags for winter whiting catches in Moreton Bay.
Several callers have rung Fisheries and been told that you CANNOT scale fish at sea, so scaler bags are outlawed.

Gary Fooks has done some preliminary research and found the following:
Gary Fooks has done some preliminary research and found the following:
The DPI website says, "Must not remove the skin from" # For any fish including Coral Reef species meaning scaling is OK
The Coral Reef Fin Fish regulations state, "Must not remove the skin or scales from "
The new regulations summary brochure states "must not remove skin or scales" # For any fish including Coral Reef species

HOWEVER - the actual regulations state:
(Division 2, S98 (1))

(1) A recreational fisher who possesses fin fish on a boat must not remove the skin from the fish until it is brought ashore.
Maximum penalty—100 penalty units.
- NO MENTION OF SCALES

We don't know the answer at this stage - but I'll endeavour to have it sorted out by next Saturday's Show.

Dave ><>
Talking Fishing - 5 - 6am Sat & Sun on radio 4BC.

[Gorilla_in_Manila]

Nugget,

If I remember correctly, the idea of leaving scales on was to help identify fillets that looked similar.

So presumably:

1. If you leave the fish whole (cleaned and gutted), you would be able to scale it since the fins and head would be enough for identification.

2. If you did fillet the fish, even one scale left on each fillet would be enough for the expert fisheries inspector to identify the fish.

Yes? No?
???
Cheers,
Jeff

[jeffo]

that was my train of thought as well jeff.

[Nugget]

I agree, but unfortunately it has got little to do with what we think or common sense - it has to do with the wording of the regulations.
We'll get to the bottom of it.

Dave ><>

[PinHead]

Dave,
They are likely to have some obscure little fine print in some regulation somewhere..typical of Govt bodies...I would suggest an officer from DPI email or send their interpretation of the regulations.

[Gazza]

I agree, but unfortunately it has got little to do with what we think or common sense - it has to do with the wording of the regulations.

Dave , I think I see your/our problem #> #

Mate ,if Gorilla's obvious explanation ISN'T correct #??? #, we are dealing with some 'smartarse' cowboys who delight in booking people while fishing ,on minute technicalities #>

Imagine mate ,legal fish,legal size,within baglimit, with these 'smartarse cowboys', technicalities of pectoral fin clipping,scales on/off,etc,etc. could still give 'em a day in court!!


Anyways ,while you're at it , ask somebody , how stupid it is to have "penalties" measured in "penalty UNITS" , like to see them explain that open-ended "measurement" #??? E-X-A-C-T-L-Y #

Regards
Gazza

1 Fish = 1 Fish unit #

[jeffo]

i have a mate who is a fisheries officer. i shall put this to him next time i see him and see what his interpretaion is.

[gif]

Penalty units is a standard approach used in every piece of legislation/ regulations - in a lot of countries.

It looks silly but turns out very practical and has cost savings.

Let me explain with a made up example . Lets say 30 years ago the penalty was $5 for parking in a bus zone. Today it costs me $12 to park in the city - so any fine is Cheap - so guess what I do? So this means fines need to keep up with prices if they are going to deter people from breaking the law.

Makes sense ? But in the old days to change a penalty they had to change the Act - a whole lot of work through parliament to change EVERY Act and regulation. So it never happened and fines were so out of touch with reality.

By making the fines in terms of penalty points all they have to do is change the $ value of a point to keep all the fines in all the hundreds of regulations up to date.

So dont be annoyed by seeing penalties of 100 points -its Government being efficient, which is all too rare.

Gary

[Gazza]

Thanks Gaz , and as of dec2003 ,a 'penalty point' is worth ??

[planetjase]

maybe if you just leave the scales and/or skin on the fish and don't do anything with it untill you get to shore there would be no problen or confusion at all
would this work ?

jase

[gif]

Gazza

You are making me work too hard! Still what can we expect from someone with a name like yours !


As best I can tell – each point currently = $75

- the extract from the law ( Penalties and Sentences Act) is below - knock yourself out!

Cheers

Gary


5 Meaning of penalty unit

(1) The value of a penalty unit is—
(a) for the State Penalties Enforcement Act 1999 or an infringement notice under that Act—$75; or
(aa) for the Cooperatives Act 1997—$100; or
(b) in any other case, for this or another Act—$75.

(2) If an Act expresses a penalty or other matter as a number (whether whole or fractional) of penalty units, the monetary value of the penalty or other matter is the number of dollars obtained by multiplying the value of a penalty unit by the number of penalty units.

(3) If an order of a court expresses a penalty or other matter as a monetary value, the number of penalty units is to be calculated by dividing the monetary value by the value of a penalty unit as at the time the order is made.

(4) For the purposes of this or another Act a reference to a penalty of a specified number of penalty units is a reference to a fine of that number of penalty units.

Example—
‘Maximum penalty—10 penalty units’ means the offender is liable to a maximum fine of 10 penalty units.

[Gazza]

Gary Fooks has done some preliminary research and found the following:
The DPI website says, "Must not remove the skin from" # For any fish including Coral Reef species meaning scaling is OK
The Coral Reef Fin Fish regulations state, "Must not remove the skin or scales from "
The new regulations summary brochure states "must not remove skin or scales" # For any fish including Coral Reef species

HOWEVER - the actual regulations state:
(Division 2, S98 (1))

(1) A recreational fisher who possesses fin fish on a boat must not remove the skin from the fish until it is brought ashore.
Maximum penalty—100 penalty units.
- NO MENTION OF SCALES

Good onya Gaz [smiley=2thumbsup.gif] thanks for the effort


Mate , $7500 for skinning a fish sounds a little harsh ???
and out of balance in the scheme of things
Give ya 1 or 2 pts max. , with or without scales !!!

[smiley=2thumbsup.gif]
Regards
Gazza