Shades of Green?

[agnes_jack]

Ive never heard the greens state that they want a sustainable rec fishery. The only policy I have heard in this regard is a total lockout and ban of all rec fishing. The current policies re gbrmp are a pre-cursor to total banning of all fishing in the gbrmp.
no sustainability there!
Regards, Tony

[Captian_Zero]

Thanks for all the replies guys and the lively debate.

I would seem I was right in that most of us are at least a bit green but not extreme.

It appears there is a niche for the Fishing Party (I am not a member), to put across the views of rec fishos, although personally, issues such as education & health get most of my attention when I am voting (even for the senate).

It would also seem that the green movement has been more successful than the rec fishos at getting the ear of government and anything that can even the balance can only help.

Regards

Chris

[PinHead]

Thanks Gazza...I get it all now..the theory is this huh?
If you come up with an idea but do not have the money yourself to create or modify something then you have nothing to do with it. Does this mean the Red Cross does nothing? The Salvation Army does nothing? Fred Hollows had nothing to do with his work? Just a few examples. Destructionalist..that is what we should call some people..those that are opposed to any form of attempting to preserve what is there now.

As for Suzuki being called an environmentalist...environmentalist, conservationist..they are all greens..not necessarily radical greens or members of the Green Party but greens nonetheless.

[kc]

Funny how the worm turns. While Greenpeace (Aust) and other flouro greens are anti rec fishing in Australia and pro (or at least accepting of "sustainable" commercial fishing ( blood sport Vs feed the masses) it is now becoming "trendy" in British and French restaurants to label fish as "line caught" rather than netted....as such they (the public) see line fisheries as far more environmentally acceptable than net fisheries yet our anti fishing lobby groups do not???

One of the great angsts of the GBR closurers is that GBRMPA and their "advisors" would never differentiate between recreational and commercial fishing. The position they take is rec fishers effect as much as commercial fishers and both should be bracketed together and banned!! David Attenbourgh (sure I stuffed up that spelling) in his quiet wonderful "Blue Planet" series (highly recommended viewing) labels prawn trawling as "The single most destructive fishing method ever devised by man". At the same time NO FISHERY IN THE WORLD HAS EVER COLLAPSED DUE TO LINE FISHING PRESSURE.

Even despite the hype about the live trout trade it is still relatively easy to bag out on trout on the GBR. Just fish a little deeper than we did 10 years ago. They are still around in droves. Just at 90 to 100 feet rather than the 35 to 45 feet we used to catch them at years ago (might have just given away a fishing secret)

The trout boats work the shallow water (so the trout live) and the deeper water hold the "mother (and father) load", which, in turn is controlled by bag limits. It is almost the perfect example of a well managed and sustainable fishery. The GBR closures were/are only about votes never about sustainability.

If GBRMPA & its political masters had taken any notice of some of the really good, well researched and thoughful submissions it received the current anger would not exist and The Fishing party (Qld) would not exist.

There are better ways to manage the inevitable impacts humans have on marine environments. It is just a great pity the Government took the easy way out and people who really do give a shit about the GBR and our waterways in general are left feeling very disenfranchised by the whole "community consultation" process. By all means get rid of inshore beam & otter board trawlers..we agree. Get rid of inshore gill netting in sensative dugoung & turtle areas....we agree. Control recreational impacts with bag limits, seasonal closures and minimum/maximum size limits...we agree with that too! But to bracket ALL fishers and fishing methods under the same banner, as the GBRMPA has done, we do not agree with. It is, or at least they thought it was, the easy way out. Ban all fishing, crow to the media about what a wonderful job they are doing protecting the GBR, pick up a few extra votes and stiff to all the people effected by the decisons. Not many people/voters live in NQ anyway!! Election time may just prove them wrong.

Regards

KC
The Fishing Party (Qld)

[Jim_Tait]

I have been a hunter and a fisher all my life and am still proud to call myself a greenie - even if some that go by that term are of questionable character or motive - its the same for any mob.

I'm with Whiteman (above) - go the greenies!! If it wasn't for the green movement we'd be in even a greater pile of shit than what we are currently and if we all don't become better greenies sooner than later - we are heading for global ecological catastrophe - if you dont believe it, delve a bit deeper than the six o'clock news.


If you think GBRMPA is upsetting your fishing opportunities wait until climate change starts biting fully. Its predicted to take out up to 30 % of terrestrial species over the next 100 years - an extinction event unprecedented in human history. It poses a potentially terrifying future for our kids and our grandchildren.

Meanwhile our 'world leaders' don't sign the kyoto protocol and instead wage 'war on terror' to help score some extra oil reserves to keep the US economy going for an extra couple of decades.

Contempory society of which we are all part is clearly unsustainable - Growth for the sake of growth is the philosphy of cancer cells - one day ecologists may eventually get economists to admit that their economic "theories" (only theories as they are un-testable) are costing the earth - and that we need homeostatis (dynamic equilibrium - how nature operates) - not growth as the basis for our ecomomy.

There are at least three key things largely absent from contempory culture that we can replace materialism with to have a high quality of life that doesn't have to cost the earth - the arts, spirituality and nature based recreation - fishing falls into the latter!!

Here's hoping.....vote green

[PinHead]

Jim..do you really think that climate change is occurring? There are theories both for and against it eg:
"The senior scientist for climate studies at NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama, Dr. Roy Spencer, has aptly noted: “The popular perception of global warming as an environmental catastrophe cannot be supported with measurements or current climate change theory.” (Earth report 2000)"

There are too many variations between temps taked on Earth and those from satellites to verify anything either way.

As for various protocols as in Kyoto and Montreal. Remember the hole i nthe ozone layer...that hole caused by fluorcarbons. They are slowly being phased out here and what difference will that make..none..nil nought, zilch. Our population is too small to make any notcieable difference. Refrigerant R12 has been banned from use in Australia..however it is being manufactured and sold in China by the thousands of tons. Here is the web site for one supplier : http://www.weitron.com/

If we are to have dynamic equilibrium then why aren't we disposing of our houses and living on the land...let's face it..due to advancement of mankind many things have deteriorated but the converse is also true..due to the advancements in technology various species can be studied more clearly and saved also.

"the arts, spirituality and nature based recreation - fishing falls into the latter!!" hunting and the killing of animals also falls into the latter and as for the first 2..I am not into either of those.

[Jim_Tait]

Pinhead,

from where I'm coming from if you enjoy music (thats the arts) and if you get a warm fuzzy feeling watching the sun rise over the creek (thats spirituality) - sure your not into either of those?

A bit of water has flowed under the bridge (in terms of evidence and understanding of potential climate change impacts) since Earth Report 2000 - check out some of the publications at the Australian Government Greenhouse Office - Climate Change an Australian Guide to potential impacts (2003) or in the publication Nature 'Extinction Risk from Climate Change (2004)' as a couple of examples.

It doesn't take rocket science to realise that if you more than double the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere at the rate we are doing it, that the global ecosystem is in for some serious whammies and they are already moving from predicted to measureble.

Dont worry I dont think we should all give up and die in the trenches - but I also don't think that we can cruise along in gay abandon as though it is business as usually - cause its not - where humankind have driven the planet is hasn't been before (not in human time anyway) - the rate of climate change we are bring on is an order of magnitude faster than the inter glacials) - and we need to turn this ship around if our species isn't going to crash its resource base like any other that has been riding on the wave of an exponential curve (really if any other biological species had the population dynamics of ours - you'd be wanting to establish a control program) !!

Our inteligence is meant to be one of our saving graces but it is only going to work if we respond inteligently to what all our hard won scientific understanding is telling us about the real state of affairs (and not what is on the corporate owned six o'clock news).

If you did'nt go fishing every now and then you'd go mad thinking about it!

Tight lines - Jim

[Jim_Tait]

PS - thinking about it fishing can also be practiced as an art form and in my experince killing animals (hunting and fishing - and eating your game) can also pass as spirituality if you are serious about respecting your quarry and the place you hunt it- Think about it - I'm sure you'll find we have all got a bit more spirituality and arts in us than we care to recognise. Working on these appreciations may even be part of our salvation - regards Jim.

[Maxg]

There are a few things that are obvious, if you listen to our political Green representatives. They are pretty much dills, and their political future is getting into the "Not Long" catagory.
The people who voted for these people, haven't got their money's worth, and thats about what you can say for what recreational anglers, the 4.5 million of them in Oz, have got from the political parties they have supported for years.
Every citizen in this country, except for half a dozen ratbags, are for most of the issues pushed by environmentalists but now they are sighting the big guns at us, for commercial reasons.
I suggest you forget the picky crap, and put your money where you fishing sport is, or was, because if you don't do it now, in a year or two, it will not be something you, or ordinary Australians will be allowed to do, let alone able to do, and that will mean a 4.6 billion dollar industry down the tube in favour of eco tourism. Another commercial term.
I find recreational anglers are a bloody apathetic lot, they will spend money on smokes, which will definitely kill you, Ask me I know, at 80 buks a carton, but scream about a annual license fee, which contrary to the Fishing Party policy is absolutely necessary to give the sport a voice in the political arena. NO PAy NO SAY
They will spend thousands on boats and tackle and quibble about joining a Political Party designed to save your bloody investment from going down the gurgler.
I'm 74 and I've seen the best, and now the downhill side. Lets not get to the bottom of the hill situation, because it is nothing much let me tell you.
If the Fishery were a human it would be in the best hospital in the land in intensive care with a dead tomorrow prognosis.
Maybe we can get some common sense and try to make that prognosis, looking healthier by the day. Max

[PinHead]

From the Commonwealth Govt. website:
"In December 2003, the Australian Parliament passed the Ozone Protection and Synthetic Greenhouse Gas Legislation Amendment Bill 2003. This Bill amends the Ozone Protection Act 1989, which is now called the Ozone Protection and Synthetic Greenhouse Gas Management Act 1989, and extends its scope in three significant areas. The amended Act:

Incorporates synthetic greenhouse gases used as replacements for ozone depleting substances into the import, export and manufacturing licence system, but without any quotas or phase-outs.
Empowers the Australian Government to develop national end-use controls on the purchase, sale, handling and disposal of these gases, replacing current State and Territory requirements.
Allows the Australian Government to implement the Beijing Amendment to the Montreal Protocol, banning the import and manufacture of bromochloromethane, and banning trade in certain ODS with non-Protocol countries"

That legislation is the biggest load of garbage ever introduced into the society..all it is, is a money grab from industry..it will absolutely nothing to reduce the worldwide reduction in ODS.

But then of course...this is the Govt that told us there are WMD in Iraq.

This entire ODS crap was driven by one company...DuPont Chemicals.

[Gazza]

Thanks Gazza...I get it all now..the theory is this huh?
If you come up with an idea but do not have the money yourself to create or modify something then you have nothing to do with it. Does this mean the Red Cross does nothing? The Salvation Army does nothing? Fred Hollows had nothing to do with his work? Just a few examples. Destructionalist..that is what we should call some people..those that are opposed to any form of attempting to preserve what is there now.

As for Suzuki being called an environmentalist...environmentalist, conservationist..they are all greens..not necessarily radical greens or members of the Green Party but greens nonetheless.

Don't know what your on about Pinhead......but no..
The Red X
The Salvatation Army
Fred Hollows

No projects directed at RecFishing, for RecFishing ,by any of them.

Greens ,i'm sure one day will come-up [smiley=idea.gif] with the idea of spreading RecFishing areas ,to spread Fishing Pressure, instead of locking them up ,and concentrating RecFisho-allowed areas.


Go Figure [smiley=2thumbsup.gif]

[PinHead]

"greenies haven't solved anything ,that wasn't already happening by others , with others monies ,not one example is their "achievement" ,by them, in the slightest. "

Gazza, you are intimating that the Greenies have to use their money to achieve anything..the examples I gave are of a few organisations that achieve without their own funds..same as greenies..greenies are essential these days to maintain the conscience of society..by greenies I am not talking about radicals or any particular political parties but the green movement in general.

[Gazza]

Yes mate ,i'm against sand-mining the moon ,as well
Yes mate ,Greenies have the same number of Q'ld State seats as the Fishing Party.
Yes Mate ,Greenies have 2 senate seats ,for now ,Fishing Party is zero, for now.

RecFishing is my recreation/interest , those other orgs .do a good job in different areas, not recfishing.

[PinHead]

I give up..no wonder things are the way they are..people obviously cannot comprehend what they read..I will quote from a previous post of mine: "by greenies I am not talking about radicals or any particular political parties but the green movement in general." Note..I said any particular political party..must be hard to understand I suppose.

Let's just all fish whever we want..catch and keep whatever we want and forget the future..won't be here to care anyway.

And it is no wonder that rec fishos do not get listened to with some of the radical comments made..exactly the opposite comments to those of the radical greenies. The Fishing Party will not get a Senate Seat nor any other seat in the forthcoming election.

[kc]

Don't give up so soon!! This debate needs both sides of the fence or it ceases to be as interesting. This has been one of the best debates I have seen on Ausfish in 12 months . It has scratched the surface and found a green tinge under most rec fishos who have commented.....god forbid, early on I was even been accussed of being unfit to organise The Fishing party (Qld) because I once vote green!! While no doubt there are a lot of guys like Gazza who are really angry at what is happening to their sport/lifestyle there are also a lot who would cop restrictions IFFF they thought they would do any good. There are a real lot of us who want to leave our fishery better in the future than it is now...in fact I don't think anyone has ever suggested "stuff the future, lets just get into it now", except, perhaps, some sectors of the commercial fisheries which really can't see past their next loan repayment.

Pinhead you seem hellbent on taking down our prospects of getting a senate seat just because someone like gazza gets up your nose a bit. Fair enough, but I have seen variuos estimates which put the number of rec fishers in Qld at between 1.2 and 1.5 million and we need about 130,000 votes for a senator. Seems to me if the barra come on the bite up here or the prawns or crabs are running, every man and his dog know about it in about 10 minutes. Everywhere I seem to go at present everyone wants to talk politics. It will certainly be a big ask to win a senate seat this election but by no means impossible. The point is it is better to at least have a go than sit back and keep copping on the chin (or is that copping it somewhere else) the sham that is the GBR restrictions and the GNS closures. Come election day if we come nowhere I will personally be dissapointed but the sun will still rise and I'll still be able to enjoy it on my favourite river. If I sit on my arse and do nothing about what has been going on in our sport for the last couple of years I don't know how I'm going to explain it to my grandkids one day that I can't take them fishing like I did with their dad/mum. Wether the restrictions are green led or just green vote inspired is debateable. The point is they are happening, more are to come and we are the next duck hunters/blood sport battle ground!! While plenty of skin, hair and bodily wastes will no doubt keep flying on this post, anyone who wants to knowo where "we" stand can have a quick sticky at the policy section of our web site www.thefishingparty.info Better still if you have a policy issue or idea you want to get started send me an e-mail and I will run it up the (party) flagpole.

Regards

Kevin Collins
The Fishing Party (Qld)