Shades of Green?

[Fitzy]

Hi Chris,
Haven't read any of the replies as yet, but for mine, I see a defined difference between Greenie & environmentalist. I prefer to think I'm one of the later. Call me a Greenie & I'm likely to come out of the stalls at a gallop.
The Green movement has gone past the extremes at times IMHO & welcomed the ratbag element to their cause. I think this has won the original movement a victory or two, but in the long run has done more harm than good to thier name, credability & reputation.
In many of the fish enhancement, tree planting, catchment managment etc groups I have been & am part of, I've never once seen a Green attend or put in any hard work, yet they get power of veto on many things at Govt level. Not good enough IMHO.
Where once I voted for Bob Brown, he's the last to get any attention on my ballot paper.

Fitzy..

[kc]

Interesting lot of feedback Chris and a really good discussion. Kind of confirms the fact that the word "greenie" has become synonomis (probably stuffed up that spelling) with the "pointy end" of the environmental movement. I really liked Raefspuds comments...I can just see them sitting there, all dreadlocks and bad BO (& the "ladies" with long blond hair....flowing from under their armpits), planning the next protest rally/sit-in/media stunt.

Greenies have, unfortunately, become the enemy...pity, I think I was one once and have certainly voted green and democrat in the senate in elections past!!

We live, we learn and we vote....this year we will have one other choice come election day.

Regards

KC

[Gazza]

GREENIE's ARE CRAP ,and talk crap ,with no financial involvement whatso ever.
RecFisho's are aware of their environment ,and pay to be so.

Greenies want you all to fish in an aquarium size alowed-space, regardless of reality.

GREENIE's are crap. >

[PinHead]

Interesting lot of feedback Chris and a really good discussion. Kind of confirms the fact that the word "greenie" has become synonomis (probably stuffed up that spelling) with the "pointy end" of the environmental movement. I really liked Raefspuds comments...I can just see them sitting there, all dreadlocks and bad BO (& the "ladies" with long blond hair....flowing from under their armpits), planning the next protest rally/sit-in/media stunt.

Greenies have, unfortunately, become the enemy...pity, I think I was one once and have certainly voted green and democrat in the senate in elections past!!

We live, we learn and we vote....this year we will have one other choice come election day.

Regards

KC

I am confused now KC. You were once a greenie but now are leading the Fishing Party in Qld. Does this mean that the Fishing Party is not interested in any sustainable environmental issues or just pushing for open slather fishing where you want and where you want? If the Fishing Party is concerned with sustainable environmental issues then it is partly Green also. You may dislike the Green movement however for there to be prolonged recreational fishing, the Fishing Party has to be green also in pushing for reductions of water pollution, run off into waterways, and items such as ships pumping out bunkers whilst at sea. There is a myriad of isses affecting recreational fishing and a lot of them are Green issues also. As for all radical Greens having dreadlocks etc, you should take a look at David Suzuki...I doubt he has or ever will have dreadlocks. Alas the Green issues will now be with us forever..items such as the crap about the hole in the ozone layer, greenhouse effect etc. You either believe them or you don't, however, you cannot dismiss them totally if you want to enter the political arena.

[whiteman]

The Silent Majority is not doing much about fixing the environmental problems created by mankind. We all should thank Greenpeace, etc - even the extremists - for bringing environmental issues into the public arena. I don't often agree with their methods and I don't agree with all of their causes but they sure have a way of tweaking the conscience of politicians, industry, and the general public.

We are quite happy to applaud their efforts when things like whale harvesting is stopped, the Franklin River is saved, Ningaloo Reef is left pristine, and thousands of other issues that benefit humankind are addressed positively by governments and industry because of their efforts.

Just because they have their sights on the Great Barrier Reef and our precious fishing grounds is no reason to tar all environmentalists as dope smoking dole bludgers. They are politically astute and know how to get their point across in the public debate. Shame us fishos aren't as savvy.

[harryhoy]

Well said pinhead and whiteman. Gazza - take a long hard look at yourself mate. That sort of crap doesn't fly these days.

[RASA]

Hi Harry,Pinhead, Whiteman

Why there is a distinct focus in opposition to the so-called greenie is because what they want is a one sided total conflict that favours their agenda. There is no sections between the nothing or all.
What is happening here with this fishing party is that there is different points in between the extremes that can still let the environment survive but let a reasonable amount of access and usage continue.

I have been campaigning on water quality issues in NSW for the last two years, something that the "greenie policies state that they want to do but don't.
The river and lake systems here are closing up fast and some have closed because of siltation. We the human race have stuffed it but the greens refuse to let the human race intervene to open them up again. Some of our systems are nothing more than a lice/algae infested stagnant backwater where sewerage and toxic blooms close off waterays from public use. I don't see too many greenies screaming to fix it rather they propose that fishing be banned. I am sick and tired of the so-called greenies saving the trees and then standing back and watching the Koalas burn, fish dying from massive fish kills etc.
The 'greenies' campaign is not prioritised. The mental block is to lock everthing up but not worry about the other major factors causing the decline.
Off course the alert to world environment problems is bought to light from these associations and so it should be and I will stand up for environmental issues that are fair as well.
We are all green in some form or another just that some of us are sensible about it.

The Fishing Party wants to be able to put debate into the decision making with equal opportunity as the greens do and we want to make decisions on facts not emotional appeals
It is certainly not about catching/killing/destroying the environment in the name of fishing.
Why can't a fisher drive onto a beach or headland from a regulated and well maintained access track to go fishing.
Many fishers catch and release fish, many just take a few for a feed, many don't care if they catch any or not but they want to be able to do it.

Some places in NSW the "greenie" doesn't even allow hangliding from high access points because the users will tread on the grass! They have even stopped families from fishing on metropolitan beaches, wharfs,jetties and most safe havens in the name of protecting some minimal amount of something.

Do you know many or any greenie radical elements who are a member of the Rural Fire Service or the surf-lifesaving association. The "greenie would rather watch an overpopulation of wildlife specie starve to death than reduce their numbers.

Whether or not KC was a greenie or not is irrelevant because there are so many shades of green that the extremists do not recognise.

The Fishing Party is not just about catching fish or exploiting the resource and will never be just that.

As to Gazzas descriptive comments I have seen some of the 'rent a crowd' tree huggers who that description wouldn,t go far enough to describe, but then again I have met some decent conservative people who I would surely negotiate with.

Robert Smith
Federal Chairman
The Fishing Party
www.thefishingpaty.info

[Maxg]

All of which reminds me that we have an overrpopulation of foxes which reduce our native species because the "greens" etc put a stop the the fox fur trade, and the rabbit skin trade and any other trade you can mention.
I'm all for the conservation of forests, and fishes but not for the conservations of greens, whoever whatever. I would hope that a vibrant Fishing Party might be the death of the Green Party. Cheers Max

[kc]

I guess to clarify pinheads issues I did (do) consider myself & a lot of likeminded fishos "greenies" before it became synomis with the more radical end. I have, in the past, voted green and or democrat in the senate..because I though they offered a better alternative to the majors....the old keep the bastards honest ideal. Now like many of us who are getting older and wiser I do not agree with the direction of green politics, the democrats have ceased to be at all relavent (to me) and quiet frankly no political party offered what I wanted.

If anyone cares to look at the fishing party web site you will see a draft policy document which includes a raft of environmental issues. It is not and will never be just about unbridled access to fishing spots to rape pillage and plunder.....for %$@^sake we are a bit brighter than that.

It is about continued access to what we think it is to be an Aussie, a far go for now and in the future, an environment (particularly a marine environment not stuffed up by pollution, run-off or overfishing. Protection meassures based on science not a vote rathering PR exercise. Protection policies which, where nessessary remove all possible impacts, not just singling out rec fishing as an easy mark!!

personally I would not have gotten involved with the fishing party if I didn't think it was fair dinkum, environmentally sensative and about a lot more than just wanting access to every bit of water to catch as many fish as possible.

There are 2 senate seats "up for grabs" in Qld at the next election. 1 held by 1 nation and 1 held by the democrats. If we get one of those this party will make an enourmous difference to the profile of rec fishing in both this state and this country and we will make the majors realise that you can be an environmentalist &&&& still enjoy sustainable use of our natural resources. We would likely vote with the green on a number of environmental issues, what we would not be doing is sticking our nose into issue which we know nothing about and fighting like hell to make sure access is maintained and sustainable use of fisheries was allowed.

Where greenpiece and their ilk stick to issues like whaling, franklin dam, logging of old growth forests etc they are to be applauded. It is the more radical side(check out the PETA web site as an example), who believe the world should be totally vegeterian and humans are a desease which should be wiped out. Personally, I kind of like being at the top of the food chain!! When it comes to a choice between a bowl of mung beans and a nice piece of coral trout I honestly don't feel guilty about choosing the fish!

Like you said right at the beginning of this post Chris, it's abot shades of green. I think the fishing party is clearly a shade of green, just not a flouro shade.

Regards

KC

[Gazza]

Well said pinhead and whiteman. Gazza - take a long hard look at yourself mate. That sort of crap doesn't fly these days.

Harry , the guy I saw in the mirror , as a RecFisho ,has done diddly-squat in wiping out a specie, or destroying fishing habitat.

Bag,size and seasonal limitations has ,this guy in the mirror, well under control , to be a sustainable evironmentally aware person.

Shutting down fishing-areas(available to RecFishos) is CRAP.
Have a look in your own mirror ,and sign-up for de-programming.

What projects do Greenies pay specifically for ??? , that improves yours/mine fishing experience.

Just a short summary would be fine.

Regards
Gazza

[harryhoy]

Gazza, my point was that your one-eyed opposition of 'greenies' is a little ridiculous. The fact that you put all environmentalists, conservationists, etc into one basket and condemn them all is narrow mindedness. However, that's your opinion and you are entitled to it.

Maybe we should have a look at some of the things that "greenies" have achieved that have actually benefitted society.
The cessation of whaling
The introduction of dolphin-friendly tuna purse-seining practices in the pacific
Their contribution to the reduction in commercial fishing effort in the GBR
The introduction of bycatch reduction devices and turtle excluder devices in every major trawl fishery in Australia
The introduction of devices to ensure the sea bird/longliner interactions are minimised
No more seal clubbing
Public awareness of Greenhouse gas emmissions/ global warming (with resultant damaging effects to GBR)
Deforestation
Pesticide/herbicide/fertiliser run-off in GBR area

I understand that there have been some things that these people have done that some of us don't agree with but there ARE things they have done that we should applaud.

Obviously, there are "greenies" that are basically hippies. These people are usually the ones that bring awareness of important issues to the public by attracting media attention. However, there are alot of "greenies" these days that wear suits, people that have an education, a job as well as excellent personal hygiene. It is my opinion we need both types of "greeny".

The fact is, the greens are a political party with a mandate to protect the environment. It's probably about time rec fishos banded together and formed their own political party so we can air our views and oppose those that we dont agree with. Perhaps The Fishing Party may be of benefit in this regard.

Its also disappointing to see that there are people that bring up incidents like 'greenies' leaving rubbish behind - Rec fishos are also guilty of this. For example, a few years ago I was fortunate enough to see a leatherback turtle, a species that are very uncommon in such shallow water, in Moreton Bay. I was fishing just off Bribie and followed the turtle, a beast of 1.5m long, around for 30 minutes while it ate jellyfish. The next day, I was informed that a leatherback had died and was washed up on the beach at Bribie. The cause of death? The turtle had swallowed a bait bag and had suffocated. Also, go down to any rock-fishing platform in NSW and have a look around. You are likely to find balloons, plastic bags, hundreds of metres of discarded fishing line and, in extreme cases, human excrement.

[Gazza]

Harry I pity you ,to even believe they 'solely' achieved all that.....

Mate , cessation of whaling??......so only greens oppose this?? i.e. 6%of the Australian population, the rest of us , i suppose 'for' whaling , and the Greens are still stopping the Japanese from whaling ,to this day?

Dolphin-friendly ??...only greens want that??

TED's for the Trawl fishery ,only greens ,nothing to do with being excluded from the USA markets ,I suppose, the device was invented by the greens??

No more Clubbing of Canadian seals ,are you sure?? , only greens ,no other support from the masses??

Reduction in Commercial Fishing effort?? ,nothing to do with TAC's or Licensing??

Greenhouse gases ,the greenies are onto it ,what are they doing about it??.....nothing!

Deforestation??......your joking ,unless you mean , no more controlled burn-offs??
Where are they with Beatties attempt to stop "deforestation" ,what monies did they offer??........nothing!

Pesticide/herbicide/fertiliser run-off in GBR area .......what a BS motherhood statement ,what are they doing about it ,nothing . Do you really believe again ,it's only the greens that are against that i.e. 6% of the population

Mate , what project of any of 'your' examples , can you say "was funded by greenies" ,solely ,as no other part of society contributed ,due to they didn't care.

Plastic bag kills 1.5m Leatherback off Bribie "overnight" ..........where do I read about that??

Nahhh Harry , greenies haven't solved anything ,that wasn't already happening by others , with others monies ,not one example is their "achievement" ,by them, in the slightest.

Littering??......only Greens don't litter???........get a life ,and a real perspective of whats real , and whats generalised statements that all of the community supports ,and always did.

Greens are CRAP ,and use stupid, unsupportable arguments to shutdown areas ,that your children or childrens children will never be allowed to go there, and will never understand why!

[Kerry]

Really in many cases the greens and associated political afflications are simply hyprocritics.

One recent example is with the push for E10 (ethanol) fuel and the comment that "they" DON'T want the product at the bowser to be labelled or DON'T want the public to know if it is an ethanol fuel or not.

Surely the consumer has a right in knowing "exactly" what they are buying but this move to try and effectively con the public is hyprocritical pure and simple. Who the hell do they think they are #[smiley=thumbsdown.gif]

But they're quite contradictory really as the moment E10 ever gets the nod then that might please the sugar industry who of course would go crazy planting/fertilizing every inch of dirt possible and of course we all know where most of the sugar cane country is, right adjacent to the GBR.

Really the moves to introduce E10 are ar.. about face but the greens (and some businesses) have this goal about E10 with almost a complete blind mindset to far more important issues. What have they done about these more important issues, basically absolutely nothing.#

Cheers, Kerry.

[harryhoy]

Littering??......only Greens don't litter???........get a life ,and a real perspective of whats real , and whats generalised statements that all of the community supports ,and always did.

Once again, all I can say is What does this mean?

Gazza - who were the people that bought most of these things to the attention of the public in the first place? You? mmmm probably not. I probably should not post anything on "green" topics because I seem to raise the hackles of some members.

Don't pity me gazza - I certainly don't want that but don't kid yourself, the "greenies" will play, or have played, a big role in remedying ALL the problems in my last post. The may not be "solely" responsible but they are more responsible than other sectors.

In my experience, the US embargo had NOTHING to do with the TED/BRD introduction. It was definitely the fact that trawling would be dramatically curtailed, especially in the GBR, if these devices were not introduced. Who initiated this - "greenies" (Humane Society International), who found that trawling was a Key Threatening Process to the long term survival of sea turtles.

Who are the people driving between Japanese and Norwegian whalers and their target species? Greenpeace (funded by themselves)!! Is that not a noble and courageous thing to do? Don't they deserve our respect? I think everyone knows that the Japanese still harpoon whales for "scientific" purposes, but if it weren't for the "greenies" this practice would have went on for a lot longer than it did. Do you agree Gazza?

As for the leatherback - give Dr. Col Limpus a ring at the EPA He performed an autopsy on the leatherback at Bribie, and given that they are an extremely rare visitor to Moreton Bay, was most likely the one I watched for a half hour.

Anyway, hope these posts make people think a little before condemning all people that are "green". For the most part, rec fishers and "greenies" have the same agenda - to ensure that the harvest of marine and freshwater resources is environmentally, economically and socially sustainable.

What does everyone else think? This is a really important topic and this type of discussion will become more and more common in the future. Thanks for starting the topic Captain_Zero.

[banshee]

I think humans as a species need protecting from themselves,but when these short comings are thrust in my face from people who could not exist with out a percentage of my taxes I see red.Green Peace hold vigorous membership drives in my area,basicaly everyone is confronted and asked for a donation or a pledge to join($150 approx)as they walk around town,when I asked their policy on fishing I was amazed,They actualy support sustainable commercial practices but oppose rec fishing.At preasent anglers of the area are negotiating a marine park boundary that is acceptable to everyone,needless to say the greens want the Tweed(ALL NSW parts) down to and including the Richmond and it's tributaries as a no take zones.These people are not our freinds.On another point,I have only ever heard Dr Suzuki refered to as an environmentalist never a greenie.