thoughts on fine

[subzero]

Gidday lunar_c, first I will answer your questions

Do you know for a fact that the children were wearing adult size PFD's?

I have read and re-read my post, I cant see anywhere that I said his children were in adult life jackets. As has been reported, they were in ill fitting jackets. I have not elaborated here because you ask for more information in your last question so I will do that there.

Do you have better information than us as to his location when he received assistance?

No I dont. Like you I have attempted to clarify initial media reports. One of the initia media reports stated that he was found just off Moreton Island. They did not mention just of Shornecliff, Redcliff, Nudgee, Deception Bay or anywhere else. To me just of Moreton probably means just of Moreton. No I dont believe everything I read, hear or see in the media, but generally initial reports tend to be the most accurate...

If you know that there were no flares - are you aware of any other safety items not present?

No I dont know that their were no flares. I do know that as the person was apparantly trained on a commercial vessel then shipboard safety relating to flares and their usage is taught and plays a key role in all safety programs. They should never be let off unless you feel that you have a high probability of being seen. The supply of flares are limited.
I quote myself here

possibly/probably not having flares (Conveniently explains the lack of flares on the vessel when they were found as he said he let them off but said they werent seen by anyone... yea right... my opinion only though)

I have bolded my last comment, I did this because I had not heard this, read this, seen this or anything else. It may very well have been an unfair comment by me as yes, he may have had them. This comment I regret having put in as it may have been unfair, but not so secretly now, it was one of my thoughts.

Do you recommend that hot flares be dropped in the bottom of the boat after use?

Certyainly not. Another reason why I regret the above comment, although I think it unlikely, it is possible that some people may consider that they should save their used or missfired flares. I do not recomend this at all. I stand corrected if anyone seriously gained this impression

Why are Coastal and SOLAS PFD's available in only one size?

. Jesus, you got me here. This is why I like this site. You live and learn from others. I thought, this guy cant be right, I spent many hours trying to find Coastal or Solas Jackets in any size throughout the world in anything other than adult. Thank you for teaching me something I DIDNT KNOW However, getting back to this subject, and I really dont want have to read the whole lot of posts again, I DONT THINK, anyone including myself mentioned that they should be wearing Coastal or Solas Jackets. These are generally regarded as being for Commercial Vessels.

You state "he broke practicly every rule in the book

My sources to date are no different than yours.
It was reported via media that, he ran out of fuel, that the children either did not have appropriate or ill fitting Jackets, that he had no navigation equippment and therefore could not direct the search Hellicopter to him, he set forth in a vessel unsuited to the conditions at the time for the size of the vessel he operated which went from 3.9 to 4.4 and then if I remember correctly 4.2m in the final report after his conviction. I refer to my earlier quote taken from the MSQ site

With regards to the GENERAL SAFETY OBLIGATION
Quote:

All owners and operators, masters and crew members must ensure the ship is:
- Safe.
- Properly equipped and crewed.
- Operated in a safe manner.

In short, these general safety obligations prohibit a ship from going to sea if it is not properly built and maintained, equipped, crewed and operated in accordance with its proposed operating environment.

The Act provides penalties for breach of safety obligations of up to $A37,000 or one year imprisonment. Should the breach cause death or grievous bodily harm to a person, the penalty is up to $A375,000 or imprisonment for two years.

I cant really answer this one any better than that other than to say that as a Mariner his overall performance was extremely poor,as a parent he did not treat his kids safety with the level of responsibility that I and most responsible parents would expect. This is my opinion and I dont intend to elaborate on this point further other than to say, we have car seats forced upon us to protect undersized children from parents who dont do the right thing and try to place them in oversized seatbelts.... and before anyone asks I have no intention of going and looking up legislation as to what is the appropriate size for a car seat

You also use the phrase "ill fitting" and "appropriate size".
Do you have a workable definition?

No I dont. Nor does the Governmeant here, or anywhere else in the world for that matter, better rephrase that, anywhere else that I have found. I was surprised to see the same phrases used in the USA etc when searching for different sizes in Coastal or Solas Jackets, which of course their arent.
I refer to my earlier quotes
A lifejacket for each person on the boat. Choose from these lifejacket standards: SOLAS, COASTAL, PFD Type 1 or the Australian Standards AS1512. Quote:
They must be of a suitable size for the people onboard, as an adult sized jacket works very poorly on a child.


From the actual Qld Maritime site states about Life Jackets

Compulsory equipment for all registrable recreational ships

Quote:
PFD's/lifejackets
One of the appropriate size for each person (12 months and over) onboard, except if a person is wearing an inflatable diver jacket and wet suit.

They do not specify INTENTIONALY sizes of people, they generally specify weights for the intended user. Short of a long story, children grow into their heads, they are disproprtionate to an adult and you will kill your child if you put a small person in a large Jacket, it will turn them face down in the water... no ifs or buts... THATS A FACT!!!

The only place I mentioned anything as being fact is above, and that is a fact, other things are quoted from official sources and therefore should also hopefully be fact... I would like to think that MSQ at least has a rough idea of the important stuff
As far as Life Jacket sizings, I cant really see how they would define it, by weight is in reality the only way for them to be defined reasonably and that is how they base it.
Here is a nice Life Jacket site with a full range which look pretty good to me.
http://www.safetymarineaust.com.au/pfd1.html
Now as I see it, you are at total loggerheads with me and that is fine, it would be a pretty boring old world if we were all to agree. This topic has been good for everyone, it has made a lot of people stop and think. To me, thats what it's all about.
I have opinions and am entitled to them, as are you. I dont agree with some of your statements/opinions, such as this one

Make that over equipped - he had a phone

It may not be mandatory to carry radio's but I fail to see how this could be interpretted as over equipped... no need to reply, he wasnt required to have one so therefore he was overequipped... thats fine, thats your opinion.

In conclusion, if Troy had been out by himself or with people old enough to make decisions for themselves... so be it... however, these were 2 little kids who trust their daddy implicitly.... standards have to be better...

I hope this answers all your questions, unless I really have to, I wont be responding further to this post. I have a hell of a lot to do in preperation for VMR tommorrow and am a very slow typer.
This post is so long I am not even going to bother re-reading it so I hope I havent opened myself up to more prolonged replys.
BTW, something I wished I had done now, which I usually do on the topical subjects but forgot on the other one is to say
THIS IS MY OPINION
Cheers Lloyd

[Gazza]

Compulsory PFDs "with parachute" for JETTIES!!!!!!

http://www.officeclips.com/clips/20.wmv