Reply With Quotekeep on it Kev,
reckon this is important
Cheers
Rhys
OK fellers, further to the Ping Waldo and Pine River threads. I'm starting a new thread so that it is clear by the title what the subject matter is about.
The DPI&F kindly agreed to let me have a look at what they were doing by way of research and by-catch reduction, and I had a most informative morning being familiarised with the issue by a bloke who is passionate about the conservation of fish stocks and all that entails.
He kindly pointed me in the direction of the latest research, showed me videos of the BRD's in action, explained the pos's and negs of them, but more importantly, made me mindful that the issue isn't as simple as I first though it to be.
In my initial thread I stated that I could not understand why the legislation offered the choice of a number of BRD's instead of just legislating for the most effective. My follow up posts in this thread will attempt to illustrate the issue as I see it (via the research I uncover) and as the DPI&F has explained it to me. I hope it will illustrate the trawling methods (in brief) and either confirm or dispel any misgivings that you may have. You will then be able to make up your mind as to whether, how, and if we should, attempt more to reduce trawling in areas such as the Pine and Logan.
It will unfortunately contain a lot of simplifications 'cause some of the research is very long-winded and written in scientific terms that are way beyone me
Watch this space
keep on it Kev,
reckon this is important
Cheers
Rhys
><((((º>.¸.•'´¯)
Life is a mystery to be lived, not a problem to be solved, Gabriel Marcel
i'm with rhys kev,,,,,i've been following the various posts over the last few weeks re bycatch and getting a general overview on each opinion,,, the feeling i got when i witnessed the mess on the sunshine coast recently left me a bit gobsmacked,, and its hard to throw any point over that will sound unbias,,, at least you may be able to shed some light on the matter and tell it like it is,,,,ie in plain english,,opposed to the normal bull#$*7 that always finds it way in,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,chop
can it get any better??????????????,,,,,,,,,,,,,,http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgG_TxEPaQE
It will be like a british bulldog chewin on your ar$e
He wont give up till he is satisfied !
Cheers
Pete
keep at it kev, it will be a legacy you leave to our grandchildren
thanks
lippa
Originally Posted by choppa
Mate, I'm also in contact with a few trawlermen and I think I can shed some light on the fish kill on the sunny, which eventually may be confirmed by the investigation.
My info is that it was an unfortunate set of circumstances (the forces of nature and man combining if you will), that combined to create the sorry situation.
The recent wet had led the prawns to be in an area that wasn't normally fished (the prawns weren't where they would normally be expected at that time of the year) and a few boats happened on them "by chance".
This is an area that contains substantial quantities of whiting and because of the possibility of large by-catch and all that entails, is normally somewhat ignored.
Times for all of us fishos (pros and recs alike) are not getting any easier, and a couple of boats "went in for the kill" (no pun inteneded) seeing a chance to make a decent catch. This resulted in a substantially larger than normal by-catch with the subsequent tragic results.
Why there was such a huge mortality rate amongst that by-catch, I don't know. I'm guessing that if the boats had a bigger than normal catch of prawn, that, combined with an unusually high percentage of by-catch, could have contributed to more pressure being exerted on them in the nets, but I'm really only guessing here and someone may know better than me, why this should occur.
The idea ibehind this thread is to stimulate others to decide the best course of action and the best way forward for the rec fishing and pro fishing lobby alike to avoid this kind of incident. All I can say, is that if my info later becomes fact then questions can be posed such as, "Was that action legal?" I can ansewer that with a yes, 'cause there was no law broken. "was it immoral?" We all have different morals, but if you were a pro fisher whose season that far, hadn't been particularly productive, what would you have done? Immoral?.....perhaps......understandable?......... ..what do you think?
One thing's for sure, the DPI&F are on the case and will draw the correct conclusions and if needed legislate to prevent it happening again.
Cynics would probably argue that this was total disregard for the consequences (as would some of those who are not cynical), but prawns are at rock bottom prices due to imports and such, pro fishers are having it tougher than ever with the cost of fuel etc, and for them to compete on an uneven playing field is just getting too much for a lot of them who need to feed their own families first. We just need to take a step back, once in a while and see just what is gained by us always pointing the finger at pro fishers instead of getting them, and ourselves, together for the better good of all.
Should we be exerting more pressure on the gov't via avenues such as The Fishing Party? If we feel that strongly, should we be thinking about a rec licence to fund an equitable buy back of pro licences? Remember that the trawlers you see in the Pine, Logan, and other creeks and estuaries are in the main, fishing for the bait market. Are we therefore, our own worst enemies?
kev
Destiny is not a matter of chance, it is a matter of choice; it is not a thing to be waited for, it is a thing to be achieved.
I have been a fan of that idea for some time now. A $20 - $30 license fee is nothing over the course of a year compared to money spent on fuel, bait, tackle etc. I would happily pay if I felt that in the long run fishing would be more productive.should we be thinking about a rec licence to fund an equitable buy back of pro licences?
But cynics might also question how much of a rec license fee would ever see its way into the buy back. On the other side of things, the money that did not go into the buy back might start to look appealing to the powers that be. It might persuade them to go easy on their zonings. Then again it might not, does not seem to have made a difference in NSW.
Keep up the good work, I will watch this space with interest.
Kev
I am sure I speak for all ausfishers , Rec & Pro alike when I say
Thanks very much for the effort and time you have devoted to helping us all understand the issue.
I look forward to your further posts.
If we are our own worst enemies can we substantialy reduce trawling in our rivers and creeks by not buying bait prawns.
I personally cannot remember the last time I bought prawns for bait, certainly not sooner than 8 years ago. In fact the only time I buy bait now is when i need flesh bait or pillies. i usually collect enough fresh bait for a session "on location".
cheers
rando
Thanks rando.
Unfortunately, I feel the bait market is fueled in the main, not by "serious" rec fishers but "the masses" who take their kids down to the beach for the day and pick up some bait in the servo on the way. These kids are our future recs and if this is the only way to encourage 'em into a wonderful sport, then I suppose we won't have much luck convincing mum and dad not to buy. A lot of rec fishers simply don't have the time to collect their own bait and others will simply take the easy option, despite packaged bait being the worst option as well as being overpriced.
Personally, I don't buy the stuff and buy direct from the trawler if I haven't had the chance to collect my own.
If we arrived at a consensus that half the bait trawling should be bought out, then just think of the price hike due to supply and demand pressures. A non-issue for those who supply their own bait but a terrific impact and possible total block on the little chappy that simply wants to dangle a line off the end of his local pier
kev
Doing a thing wrong for a long period of time gives it the superficial appearance of being right.
15 years ago when i first stepped onto b/isl it was common to see pro's operating in the passage/offshoot creek mouths,,,whether this was legal/illegal at the time depends on who you talk to, but today the only trawlers seen are the ones returning back to the marina where they moor after a trip out to whereever they go,,,a huge outcry was voiced and the passage had some (at the time) severe restrictions placed in line re trawler management and no go zones,,,,has the passage improved since then,,,,,and can you place the improvement on the lack of pro fisherman harvesting their catchs within the passage,,,,,i truly believe so,,,, and this was brought about by the smaller voice making an issue of it
rec licences,,,,,count me in,,,,we get charged 75/yr or 25 a day pass to purchase a permit to travel on bribie beaches,,,,99% of this fee is returned to the management of the foreshore,,,and you dont hear to many people whingeing about this after a day on the beach,,,, to charge a licence fee that in turn will assist in the overall assistance of "buying back" licences or other problems that also need addressing can only be a step in the right direction,,,,as long as its ran by people who are committed to the cause and not a cause to be committed,,,,
is there a reason why a packet of prawn bait from the servo costs on average $4.95/packet for about 30-40 prawns per bag,,,,when there on average $15/KILO to buy,,(bay variety),,,,
if you need a hand with this kev give me a yell,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,choppa
can it get any better??????????????,,,,,,,,,,,,,,http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgG_TxEPaQE
Cheers choppa, if the conclusions drawn from this thread (eventually) determine that a pressure group is the way to go, then it'll need all hands on deck. Just an observation in regard to what you say
Agreed but a personal observation and the question being posed and of great concern to some, both local rec fishers and DPF&I, is" "Are those gains about to be lost?" The current development of Bribie has led to the loss of much mangrove. Add to that the run-off issue and other concerns, and IMHO, we're about to go backwards. The considerable gains made by rec fishers and DPI&F is about to be negated, that is, if that process hasn't already commenced.
It's outside the brief of what I am trying to achieve here, but it's just another area of concern which illustrates just what the rec fishing lobby is up against. Surely they knew the likely impact of the loss of mangrove when they had enough models from other areas to relate to when the development plan was given the go-ahead? Seems they just don't give a shit, but then again, they probably don't fish, or are simply blinkered (stupid)
kev
Don't be afraid to learn. Knowledge is weightless, a treasure you can always carry easily.
Developement = Income for local authority $$$$ win again
hey kingtin,good on you for standing up to what you believe in,just wondering what you thought of the post"prawns a plenty"about beam trawling in the brissy river?
support your local commercial fisher,its never too late!!
point taken kev,,,re development being outside the issue,,,i think the track i was on was more about the small bloke having a say,,,,,,and further to this i find it amusing that we dont have many pro's speaking out on the issues that do surround them,,,,in fairness i'm not enlisted in any anti trawling club or debate team,, but i know if my livelihood was under fire from those that didnt or wouldnt understand certain aspects,,, i along with everyone else would stand up and be counted,,,,,
along with comments already posted here and elsewhere within ausfish forums,,, is it more of an education for the general consensus of alternative methods in purchasing the end product,,,,a prime example was noted this afternoon when i saw the following in a well known """supplier""" of general food items here on bribie;;;;
fresh australian coast tiger prawns XL $28.95/kg
australian tiger prawns $23.95/kg
imported "white" prawns $15.95/kg
all of the above were cooked,,,the SIZE difference between the top 2 were NONE,,, and they were all side by side in the same seafood section,,,,
my point here,,,is what are the pro's competeing against,,,,surely they are being paid the same value for items 1 & 2, and the wholesalers and end suppliers are throwing in there mark ups to boot,,,,,but when stock diminishes demand prevails,,,,,and when demand is abundant the profit to be made SOMETIMES takes over the ethics of supplying,,,,,,,,
the recent outrage on the sunshine coast saw a small fleet of trawlers working an area that would not normally be worked,,,,your notes are taken into account that the harvest was a once in a blue moon event,,,however the amount of bycatch was th predominant feature of this event,,,,,and yes like all aussies,,,we remember the ugly side of events more than we remember the good,,,,,,an invitation was extended for a forum to publicly discuss this wastage but was declined,,,,,WHY,,,if all of the ted's/brd's were in place and if the pro's had reason beyond that which was splashed across most aussie newspapers each day for a week or so,,,,,you would expect someone to raise a hand and say something,,,,,
dont get me wrong,,,,i'm on your side,,,and i'm the first to admit that i dont know everything in this world,,,,always room for a bit more education for the old brain to absorb,,,,,but i sit back and see the ludicrisy behind all the bull$417 were fed and it just makes it worse,,,,,,,,,offer stands mate,,,,if ya need a hand holla,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,chop
can it get any better??????????????,,,,,,,,,,,,,,http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgG_TxEPaQE
Mate, I think it was brave of Webby to even start the thread 'cause he would be fully aware of the likelihood of cynical response. "Cynic" and "cynical" have a tone to them that often implicates the "cynic" as somehow being a lesser person than the non-cynical person, but if one thinks about why that person is cynical, quite often they are justified in that.
What I'm simply trying to say is that it is understandable that a person becomes cynical when shown "proof" that disputes that persons perception (based on previous experience) of a situation. The recent fish kill on the Sunny is enough to make anyone cynical.
As to folk questioning the "honesty" of the trawl that Webby showed us.........I really can't comment on that 'cause I wasn't on board. What I do know is that since that thread my curiosity has been aroused and armed with what I have learned in the last few weeks, I would now be far better placed to judge the honesty of a "typical trawl". From the pictures that I saw, and with information as to what BRD was being used, I think that I could testify as to those picture's integrity. I'm guessing that the trawler was using square mesh BRD due to the low by-catch pictured, but there are other factors that could have influenced that, and it is that, which I aim to show throughout this thread as differing BRD's produce different results in different situations.
kev
Baby: A loud noise at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other.
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