doublehand fly rod???

[atlantic_salmon]

G'day mate, there are two main clubs on the lee. cork salmon anglers association ltd in which there is a 10 year waiting list or you can buy a membership, the last one sold for 10 000 euro, because it is a limited company there is only 50 members at any given time and the other one is lee salmon anglers club (my best friends, i have had murder with these ladies) they have control of 50 % of the lee and lie about controling the rest, but to be honest the best fishing is either in the cork city area (jury's bridge, through UCC and at the kingsly weir or if you can head upto the inniscarra dam, costs 20 euro (30 oz$) for the day, dont waste your time on the lee until after paddys day though, you would be better off heading to the cork blackwater or to the river laune in kerry if you want to pick yourself up a springer if you want to head out for a fish for a salmon or two send us a pm mate...

[lock]

Thanks for the info mate I reckon I might give the old club idea a miss. I am actualy working on the new jury's building at the moment the river does look good and have noticed a few people fishing there I was going to wait for it to warm up abit.I have been at the blackwater in mallow I dont know if I supposed to get permision or not but no one noticed me. I have not been going as much as I would like I am also playing rugby over here and it takes up a fare bit of time. But I will be keen to chase a few salmon I realy just want to see someone use a double handed rod.

[atlantic_salmon]

yeh cool maye, ive got a spare double you can have a bash with, in a few months (1 or 2) start taking your sunnies to work and you will see some rippers hanging back from the bridge, its best using a shrimp under a float, its bait drowning but its your best bet, if you ever want to go for a fish just send us a text on 0879402130, not to much around at the monent though...

[wessel]

I had this reply in mind with words of wisdom gained from personnal experience - in the end this is my reply

Keep the rods - They are paid for and you like them.
Use the rods of the beach, along the canals and try it off a boat.

In the end, who cares. You might just start a new trend or develope a new technique.

What you will call the cast is up to you but Australian Atlantic-Salmon Spey Cast is just a bit too long winded in my opinion

The last time I was in Ireland I froze my gonads off in the Irish sea chasing some ugly eel looking thing....... I had a better time in the pub thank you very much. They can keep that frigid water.

Regards

Wessel

[atlantic_salmon]

the conger eel is the ugly bugger you would have been after, tried it once myself, fishing in a dry suit in water so cold it feels like acid on your face is not quite my idea of fun either.

i think i will be keeping them, i have thaught up a few places where they would be fun, like using the 12" one in the mangroves where a back cast is just not an option and the 14"6' on sea walls where your down the rocks a bit or on my brothers big dickey center console with the even bigger cannpoy, all i hav e tyo do now is sort out insurance, might put up a post on the general chat boardand see about insurance, with 5 fly rods and 3 spinning rods all of them brand name rods i think i might need to good insurance, especially with every over here calling Heathrow airport Thiefrow, the gypsie baggage handlers might get lucky, thanks for all the posts boys...

[Maxg]

I have a number of Double Handed rods, in fact 4 of the things.
1... Talon Graphite USA 15 ' Midgar 10/11 which handles shooting heads in the range from 650gns to 900gns
2... TalonRA, Barry's stuff, 14' 9/10 handles heads in the range 400 to 600gns
3... TalonRA 12' 6/7 handles heads in the range 300 tp 450 gns
4... TFO 12x12 is really a 14x12 and handles heads around 550 gns.
ALL of these rods are designed for overhead casting with shooting heads, and they are so successful I no longer use standard 9 foot rods. I do however have a TFO 8' 6" 2 weight.
I use a Steelfin XFR LA type reel 4.5" for roll casting the 15 footer, it gets out about 70 feet with a big Loop intermediate 50 foot head.
I have a pair of Old Florida LA mosdels, a 77 and an 88 but my latest reel is a Penn 49L Mariner, standard narrow spool overhead type reel that is fitted under thebig rods. Its heavy, holds 500 yards of 50lb GSP braid, a 120 foot stuffed GsP running line and a500gn head.
The Mariner is geared ar 3.5 to 1, has a star drag like all Penn senators, is 4' in diameter and makes standard type fly reel into over rasted cotton reels. Best of all it cost 120 buks all up.
BUt DH rods are getting going all over the uSA, some people don't like them, but they dion't really know whats up.
Spey rods are spey rods, I'd flog them off and get as dedicated fast taper DH rod, and I suggest a TalonRA 14 footer if you are interested in beach or estuary fishing. They are a lot cheaper than the up market rods but are very good quality. You really need a big diameter LA reel, if only for the fact that you need a bit of backing, I use 500 yards all the time.
Good luck, MaxG.

[Bidgee]

Mate, I have used spey rods a bit on salmon rivers in northern Russia and I rate them very highly. The speed in which you can deliver a long accurate line is what stands them apart. I've often thought that a double handed rod would be great on Sydney Harbour so I reckon give them a go. If you do drop me a note, Id love to see one in action again.

Scott

[Maxg]

I'm in Western Australia. I'm not sure that they would work off boats, I wouldn't use one off a boat, because of the difficulty in landing fish but they certainly work off shore locations.
I'm more interested in off the rocks applications.
There isn't a lot of support for DH rods in Australia due to the people using them being considered a radical bunch of ratbags, including me, which I think is totally ridiculous considering the fishing that goes on around this country with long rods. The areas cover beaches, estuaries, jetties and rocks as welll as some of the dams and water empoundments.
The range of aplications is enormous, as is this Island,
Cheers MaxG
the Rod is a TFO 12x12 and the reel a Penn Mariner 49L.

[Maxg]

For the record that reel isn't such a silly idea. Firstly its geared at 3.5 to 1 is Anti Reverse, holds a wad of line and isn't a hefty load on long rods..
The only problem is the handle which is a fair weight and could be replaced but the best bit is a price of 120 dollars, total including post and exchange off EBay.
I'm looking at doing some mods to a bigger diameter Penn Reel to reduce the spool diameter, decrease the weight and improve the look of the thing.
But DH rods are going to move soon, the aplication is enormous especially for shore fishing. MaxG

[atlantic_salmon]

sorry ive not replyed earlier, there is a good run of salmon on my local river at the moment, have got myself 3 this week ranging from 9lb to 14lb, after a long off season its good to be taken into the backing again, good to hear i wont be the only mug waving the long rod in oz, the shooting head style of fishing you describe is known as scandinavian style, there are three styles taditional, greased line and the scandinavian, that picture you posted there mate how much weight are you throwing about there mate, after using my 12' 4 sage and a system 2 9/10 for 2 days in a row my shoulders are hanging off me, if you can throw that feild cannon about for a day i dont think i would like a arm wrestle with you there my friend...

[gogecko]

bump

[Maxg]

Whats with this "bump". Are you advocating it be deleted. Tough titty.

On the Dh rods. These things are overhead casting fast tapers, maybe called Scandinavian types but more like FT spin sticks.
The flies are quite large really, big deceivers or whatever. Forget clousers.
The casting style is designed to make things easy and energy efficient, since the standard double handed stance puts the rod at the strongest part of the muscle system. Which means great power with little effort. Casting distances are usually related to 10 feet per foot of rod, like a standard cast, operationally, from a 12 foot rod would be 120 feet, which is just one back cast followed by a foward cast. A 15 footer has the capacity to get a fly 150 feet with the right length head.
The ratings of these rods are not related to the AFTMA ratings, but to the tip and butt loads that can be cast. The range of weights for a 12' 8/9 weight double rod would be say 350 to 600gns depending how far into the butt you wanted to load the rod.
I use a Scientific Anglers T40 competition head, 54 feet and 625 gns to test DH rods, and a standard 8/9 12 foot rod will huck this line 120 feet no problem.
They can be used in estuaries, where you can get a much greater coverage than 9 footers, off beaches and rocks without too many problems. Line management may be a problem in some locations due to the length of running line used to get maximum distance, but generally its not more that one uses for most 9 foot shooting head applications. And shooting basket system will work.
One big advantage of DH rods is the ability to roll cast to significant distances and these things can be used with quite long casts in areas when there is casting restrictions, like obstructions to the rear, at the bottom of rock walls, vegetation etc.
There is a distinct difference between the Spey/Euro and overhead casting tapers, with the overheads having a very distinct fast taper build.
There are few to none on sale in Oz, except for TalonRA which are pretty good.
These things actually work quite well, as do long outfits used by our beach anglers all over the country. Have a look in your local tackle shop. What proportion of rods in 12 foot and longer lengthsdoes the shop stock. They don't do that because of kind hearted notions, they do it because they sell the things and the users catch fish in big lots.
If a 12 foot rod works in surf etc, why wouldn't a 12 foot fly rod work is surf. Lot better than a 9 foot fly rod, believe me, easier to cast, longer cast and more energy efficient.
Cheers MaxG.

[atlantic_salmon]

"bump" im a painter mate, you might have to expand on that one for the more meek among us, i actually have found this thread prety helpfull and cheers to every one who has contributed, and if you think this one is dragging on wait till i start up one about tying saltwater patterns on tubes either plastic, alluminium or brass for different sink rates which allows for the use of mild carbon hooks instead of stainless steel that would stick in a lost fish for weeks.

Maxg im going to have to pick your brain for some info on fly lines and things in a few weeks, i learnt more from your last reply than i have in the past year about the long wand....

[catchy_fishy]

Couldn't help reading this thread after a while of being out of action.

AS - Looking forward to teh info about tying flies 'salmon" style. The tube method has always intrigued me. Not so sure about the use of the treble hooks though.

Can I expand on the "bump" ? Some time back (during May 2006) some wise ar$e started posting unsuitable literature on Ausfish. No one could reach an administrator to stop the posts. The fastest way to get rid of the filth was to "bump" old posts so that they would appear at the top of the list as if they were the most recent post. "Bumping a post" is forum jargon for making that specific post move to the top of the queue for reading again. Bumping does not mean bumping down in the classic Oxford dictionary sense.

In doing this enough times, the filth post got moved to the second page, and was then unlikely to be seen by younger members particularly.

A number of members spent a good few hours typing "bump" on posts that were "clean" older posts so as to hide the ugly posts until a mod could be contacted.

You may notice that there is now a new button on Ausfish called "ALERT A MODERATOR" - This is why.

Mike

[Maxg]

I've been quiet for a while on this board, and havent kept up with things but I have tried tube flies, and I now use the Sigler system. This involves using the small inner tube out of a Bic biro pen, cleaned out with pipe cleaners and then cut in half. You get a small piece of a larger plastic tube and fit it over the end. This allows the hook eye to be fixed, rather than flogging around.
The fly is tied on the front tube, and generally a inch or so is left sticking out to allow a foam head to be fitted, for poppers.
You can tie quite large flies on these things, and set up tandems quite easily. big flee big fush like.
One thing you don't want in salt water is a fly flogging around on the leader during a tussle so generally a mono knot, like a Uni knot, large is tied just in front of the tube on the "wire" shocker, no mono shockers allowed here, to keep it away from the tippet and sharp teeth. I stuck some pics on the WA SWF club website www.saltwaterflyrodders.com you can see the things there.
Double handers will always get some controversial comments from people called "luminaries" VBG, but most people in OZ havent a clue about them.
Dave Longin did use a 14' double at Weipa, out of a boat as well. It was so long and the tip so high that he kept the line above the guys 9 foot lines, cast further off the boat and off the beaches. Actually killed 'em stone dead. One beach had crocs patrolling around and the 9 foot brigade couldn't cast far enough standing on the sand. Dave was getting over 120 feet every cast and catching fish without getting his feet wet. DH rods have some advantages on croc country beaches.
I use my 15 footer on the local reef at times and can stand on the edge and roll cast around 70 feet just waving the thing around. And as a added advantage the rod length, which gives a very long arc on retrieve makes that Deceiver fly swim like a rocket, like a hardbodied lure wound flat out on a threaddy. You can't retrieve flies like that by hand. And there is no running line to bother with, its kept on the reel. The head is 55 feet the leader about 10 feet and I have about 6 feet of running line out. That gets near 70 feet. Longer head longer cast. I could use a light Spey line like a windcutter for roll casting, but I'm stuuck with heads, can't see why I should buy a new running line with every head I buy. Like a full line? Just adding to expense.
Another advantage is Spey, underhand casting at the bttom of marina walls and breakwaters where you just cannot get enough backroom to overhead cast. Get 70 plus feet there and if you use a Belgian cast you can do it with restricted back room, like 20 feet or so. That gets a long way, 120 feet plus depending on the rod.
The DH rod is a bit like a 9 footer with a stiff extension butt 4 feet long, very grunty in the butt, it has to be to throw 650+gn heads. Beat the crap out of most Oz type fish.
They are certainly better if runnered like a spin rod with bridge guides, snake guides are bloody awful things on long fly rods, too much beating of fly line on the rod.
People do really forget that Oz anglers have caught some hefty fish on long beach rods, so why not with a DH fly rod. Its just another fishing rod, with some serious advantages over 9 footers.
The problem with the fly scene here is that we get only one style of casting fed to us. Like falsde casting and Double Hauling. With the DH rods come the Spey styles which do work with 9 footers and will allow short rods to be used in cluttered areas, off tree lined banks of rivers and dams and the belgian cast is quick, and quite long anf doesn't expend energy.
Have a look around you, fly fishing isn't just for the purists, its for the innovative and thinking guys, who want to open up the fly envelope a tad.
Cheers MaxG.