Todd,Originally Posted by Mr__Bean
Are you sure it is against the law if you are at anchor and your anchor light is on? I go past yachties all the time that are all downstairs when at anchor. Not looking for a dispute, just not sure how the law works when you are at anchor.
GBC,
Hmmmmmm, something I hadn't considered........
- Darren
[/quote]
Darren,
If you are anchoring in a position where there is the likelyhood of commercial traffic passing then it is your responsibility to maintain a lookout using all means available to you......this means visual, aural and radar if fitted.
There have been a number of accident investigations between anchored trawlers and sea going vessels where both parties were held accountable for conducting a poor lookout.
A yacht anchored close in or out of the shipping channels is a different kettle of fish to a 6~7 metre recreational vessel anchored 30~40kms off the coast. In any case, at that range of operation, would it not be appropriate to have two on board.......one kipping and one on lookout?
Regards
Chine
Rule 5
Look-out
Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as
by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to
make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision.
Open to interpretation but, if you anchor in an area where other vessels may be expected then you are required to maintain a lookout.
Boy we are hijacking the original topic here, but some good discussion on a very valid topic I think. Since moving to Brisbane and joining this site I see that many of us head out for night offshore fishing.
On that basis I would like to continue the discussion unless some feel otherwise. Not looking for any bitch fights or grandstanding, but let’s talk it through for best recommendations for the overnight fisherman.
Chine,
Yes, two or more makes sense to me. Not just for watch but for other general safety, things go wrong too easy out there to be on your own.
I usually fish with my twelve year old boy, he has a very level head and he is the one I trust in my boat with me. Over the years I have taught him how to drive the boat in a variety of conditions and would like to next take him on the crossing bars course (not sure of age restriction).
He does however crash out of a night and I am usually left up alone from about 2am through to daybreak. This is when I am also at risk of falling asleep in the chair, despite my best efforts to stay awake.
This does happen to us despite best planning and I think we have our head in the sand if we reckon we are going to have a 100% watch throughout the night.
Comments from others here please, maybe I am wrong assuming this of others.......
It is during these risk times I was thinking of still using the additional light, after these discussions many more views have been put forward which also need to be considered. The benefit of a working forum I guess....
The point on a yacht close to shore and a boat out offshore is also acknowledged, I have only seen them closer to shore etc.
Triman, don't disagree with the intent of the rule. ATSB maritime accident investigation reports also support the need for a "watch". But I don't think the rule is applicable if at anchor. Yes, I agree "Rule 5 - Lookout" lists the requirement but rule 5 is a section of Part B of the rules which deal with the "Steering and Sailing Rules" and I don't think they apply to vessels at anchor.
I maybe wrong but regardless, I think they would apportion blame if you had no watch at anchor when offshore.
So I come back to my original dilemma, if you are out at the banks (or similar) for an overnight fish and despite best planning you are at the stage where you just don't think you can stay awake, what do you do? It is easy in a car you take a powernap but you can't do this on a boat and keep watch.
This is where my mind was regarding future use of an additional small strobe but that too has been blown away now.
- Darren
Darren, I think you bring up some very valid points. And as far as getting off the original topic, i think this stuff is very relevant and needs to be discussed.
I too have fallen asleep while o'nighting offshore. All lights were on as required, but my eyes were not exactly keeping a lookout. What can you do????
I think it is unrealistic to say that you cannot sleep if you are the only person aboard. It may be pollitically and legally correct to say you MUST keep a lookout at all times, but like most polliticaly correct legislation, it is not always workable or practical. I guess the only alternative is not to go out at all!
I think in hindsight, the only way to gaurantee you are not gonna get steamrolled is to keep watch always, and be prepared to get out of the road in bloody hurry if needed.
Now any extra lighting has gotta be a good thing, so if a strobe is not ideal, what is?
Damo
Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. But ,flogging him into submission will result in him taking up crabbing.... and once he gets a taste of that sh*t, well, he may never return again.
Does a flashing strobe not mean a vessel or person in distress?
Wessel
yeah Wessel, i think that is the arguement against using one.
I think it would be a good idea to have a strobe, perhaps with a certain flashing sequence that indicates "Vessel at anchor" so it does not get confused with a distress signal. Maybe only to be used in open water, i.e. more than 2nm off the coast.
Maybe it should flash "Anchored Vessel" in, oh crap, cant remember the name of it, you know the dot dot dash one.
Damo
Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. But ,flogging him into submission will result in him taking up crabbing.... and once he gets a taste of that sh*t, well, he may never return again.
I have got big work lights that shine down on the back of the boat, maybe I will just idle the motor and put the work lights on if I have to snooze.
They would flatten the battery if left on too long without the motor running.
- Darren
Morse code was the one i was thinking...
Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. But ,flogging him into submission will result in him taking up crabbing.... and once he gets a taste of that sh*t, well, he may never return again.
G'day Deiter
The collision regs aren't really about political correctness.
They are probably the most practical around, there is no ambiguity written in, great care has been taken with the wording so there can be no misunderstanding them.
They are international rules, taught and understood by mariners the world over and have stood the test of time, some 80-100yrs.
Any misunderstanding will be on the part of an individual interpretation, take it to court it will be very clear cut.
There is one very good publication that helps with interpreting the rules of the road, by Croft maybe?, the authors' name escapes me, someone else may shed some light.
This book puts each rule into perspective with layman's terms and a scenario or historical incident concerning the rule. It's usually a fixture on-board most ships and a text used in many colleges.
Nobody wants to argue who was right and who was wrong in a coroners court or marine incident inquiry.
I truly believe anchoring out wide, like the banks area, where ships transit, on your own and not being able to keep a proper lookout, is an accident waiting to happen.
Parts of the Barwon Banks sit on a track used by ships Nth and Sth bound between Indian Head and Pt Lookout, depending on the current, been over it many times myself using that route.
Another issue I'm uncertain of is the use of LED replacement globes for nav lights, particularly anchor lights.
Can anyone confirm LEDs comply with the rules for the luminous range requirements of nav lights?
regards
Steve.
LED globes should be fine as replacements for conventional globes in Nav lights provided they can comply with Annex 1, section 8 of th Colregs. There are LED lights available now but you should ensure they comply before buying. (Sorry about some of the funny blocks in the following but it can happen when you copy and paste a PDF).
8. Intensity of lights
(a) The minimum luminous intensity of lights shall be calculated by using the
formula:
I ƒ# 3.43 x 106 x T x D2 x Kƒ{D
where: I is luminous intensity in candelas under service conditions,
T is threshold factor 2 x10ƒ{7 lux,
D is range of visibility (luminous range) of the light in nautical miles,
K is atmospheric transmissivity.
For prescribed lights the value of K shall be 0.8, corresponding to a meteorological
visibility of approximately 13 nautical miles.
(b) A selection of figures derived from the formula is given in the following table:
Range of visibility (luminous range) of light
in nautical miles
D
Luminous intensity of light in candelas
for K = 0.8
I
1 0.9
2 4.3
3 12.0
4 27.0
5 52.0
6 94.0
NOTE: The maximum luminous intensity of navigation lights should be limited to
avoid undue glare. This shall not be achieved by a variable control of the
luminous intensity.
Regarding the applicability of Rule 5 the only qualification for this Rule is in Rule 4;
Part Bƒ{Steering and Sailing Rules
Section Iƒ{Conduct of vessels in any condition of visibility
Rule 4
Application
Rules in this Section apply in any condition of visibility.
Rules 6 and 8 to 10 imply vessels underway and making way, Rules 5 and 7 make no such inference.
Regarding the Rules in entirety, to the best of my recollection there is only 1 Rule where an action is mandated, that being Rule 14
Rule 14
Head-on situation
(a) When two power-driven vessels are meeting on reciprocal or nearly reciprocal
courses so as to involve risk of collision each shall alter her course to starboard
so that each shall pass on the port side of the other.
All other Rules leave avoiding action up to the watchkeeper on the ship, based on training and experience.
that's what I was asking, how do you ensure they comply?
I haven't seen anything on the packaging on the ones I've seen that state any compliance.
most salesmen wouldn't have a clue, and say anything or nothing to sell their stock.
Darren,
The best precaution in the short term is to get the brightest regulation lights that you can get on your boat matched to the capacity of your second battery and keep a lookout.......but I have a longer term solution.
The international maritime industry has introduced some new GPS/VHF combined technology as a means of improving ship to ship and ship to shore communications.......AIS (Automatic Ship Identification). Each SOLAS vessel >300grt is now fitted with a GPS/VHF transponder which allows the vessel to automatically transmit it's GPS position along with other dynamic data such as name, speed over ground, course over ground etc. The same transponder is also able to receive other vessel's data who are within VHF range and overlay this information on the radar and electronic chart display. The identification appears as a large triangular icon on the screen irrespective of weather conditions, gain and clutter settings........you cannot miss it. The receiving station can interrogate your icon and get all your details..........we are talking detection ranges of up to 40nm's.
There are two types of transponder...A & B. The B class unit does not have as many features although would be more than adequate in the recreational arena. The only problem at present is they are prohibitively expensive ($3000~$5000) although are coming down very quickly as more manufacturers come into play.
So here you are with your Class B transponder fixed to the rocket launcher with its inbuilt GPS and VHF constantly transmitting you data to all AIS equipped vessels within VHF range........all stations including shore based search and rescuie and Port Authorities........brilliant, seamless technology......and your can back this up with your 406MHz EPIRB with inbuilt GPS. The transponder runs off rechargeable batteries and is totally separate to the boat's power system.
This is not far away.
Regards
Chine
All the technology is great but unfortuneately not as reliable as the old system where ships were required to monitor (yes actually required to maintain a radio watch) specific radio channels and real people too talk too. This technology has widened the gap between big boats and little boats.
Yet all the technology in the world is no saviour yet ships still run smack bang into the biggest brick wall known (the GBR).
Lets face it AIS isn't something that was intended for recreational vessels fishing at night!
Regards, Kerry.
After doing a couple of overnighters at Wide Caloundra in winter this year, and seeing some container ships come within a kilometer or so of us during the night, I asked exactly this question to a mate of mine who drives these things. He said categorically do not rely on them seeing you on their radar every time - particularly in a small glass boat in lumpy conditions. He went on to explain clutter etc. Interestingly he subsequently refused an offer to go night fishing with us despite being a keen fisho (for this reason).. that says a bit to me!
Big ships at night are like a phantom, they make absolutely no noise!
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