just a bit of trivia old wynnum herald dated #wen november 21 1962 #you will have to zoom in to read it. records. UNFORTUNATELY they were the good old days.
There will be days when the fishing is better than one's most optimistic forecast, others when it is far worse. Either is a gain over just staying home.
Flatstrap
Dont forget to mention that Ron Taylor and his early spearfishing cohorts were responsable for wholesale slaugter particularly of sharks when the introduction of powerheads made tackling big fish an option. And if you were to search film archives you would see him killing shark after shark ,mostly greynurse and leaving them to rot. Thrill killing for some film footage & financial gain .
These same group of people now point the finger at line fishermen .
rando
Heya Fishingjew
Unfortunately my eyes aren't as good as they once were and I am struggling to make out much of the records text, but certainly know of the names of those in the pictorial section "four generations of moreton bay fishermen" One of their old boats the Violet can still be seen on the bay today.
Unless you keep newspaper cuttings for no particular reason I think you may know this house?
yea sorry about that still computer alliterate and to make matters wose broke me glasses in two i cant see a thing but i do know i spent some good times in that house and on the back of the trailer going down the beach go get emOriginally Posted by straddie
There will be days when the fishing is better than one's most optimistic forecast, others when it is far worse. Either is a gain over just staying home.
Straddie, I was delighted to read your assessment as to how and why mullet may alter their migration. What you have written is precisely what I believe to be occurring and you have managed to document it in a very concise and logical fashion.
And now having an awareness that mullet may be altering their migration as a result of the nets, then ones experiences regarding other species such as bream, whiting, tailor etc come into play as they are also affected by the nets.
It seems to me that all of the species that are potential victims of this type of netting, have over a period of time learnt to stay away from the netting areas when forewarned by previous successful shots. Signals from fish aren't strictly species specific either, in that high distress from any one of the affected species will now cause an area abandonment by all of the other species.
So the repercussions of the mullet netting and their possible migratory alteration are further exacerbated by the other species involved having to also alter their migratory, feeding or spawning habits.
The specific research involved in assessing the impact of beach seine netting is not overly complex and nor is it expensive. It is however more expensive than I can fund privately. Such a study would also open doors to further research in the field on hundreds of other species and their stock levels, spawning, migratory and feeding habits. An overall management plan for all of our salt and fresh water species that is effective then becomes feasible.
Straddie, I have spent a great deal of time trying to create an awareness both publicly and at Fisheries of these altered migrations and the potential catatrosphes that may occur as a result. I also can see that these catastrophes can be avoided without too much pain on the part of either the commercial and recreational sector. It does however require some urgency in being implemented before the situation can deteriorate further. Of course we won't feel the full effects of poor recruitment in these species for perhaps several years from now, but by then it could be very difficult to achieve good results without a stock base to work with.
And thankyou Straddie for having put such constructive and educated thought into what I consider to be the most important issue facing Fisheries around Australia at the moment.
Lindsay
Hello all,
I have been away for about a month and have battled to read the majority of this thread, a long read! I have covered most of it now, and I have the basics of people's opinions and ideas, concepts etc on the topic. It will always be a touchy subject when emotions come into play, and all daggers aside, it needs lengthy efforts and discussions to come to proper agreements on managements. Firstly, nothing can beat experience and knowledge in the field, and first hand info will be of benefit. Any opinions without strong supportive evidence will never be held in any high regard. (Daggers aside please, this is just a helpful scribe on the topic, no direct pin pointing at any organisation or individual.)
I have strong past history in both the commercial and recreational fishery as well as strong general awareness for our environment.
Briefly, I will add how my observations over the last 15 yrs have helped note some very eye opening occurences with many species of fish and how they become crafty and very cunning when it comes to being commercially netted, or in many cases, line caught also. Number one evasive fish on the list when it comes to being as switched on to netting scenarios and how to avoid such predicaments, or at times to try to escape is the one and only SEA MULLET, the same species that has been the hot topic for discussion. Leave a few broken meshes in a mullet net, and watch the hundreds upon hundreds adopt the single file approach and escape without a care in the world. Whiting and bream for example also carry on with some mind blowing antics such as burrying in the sand and allowing the net to pull over them etc etc. Mullet will eyeball a nets leadline and find a corrugation in the sand and duck under, along with 500kg of his mates. Lift a lead line clear of the bottom,,,same result!! The stories go on and on. Simply, fish are not as dumb as we think, and as years pass, it is very fair to say that fishs' minds evolve with time and their understanding of how man interacts with the environment is stronger than we think. A fish that may change its natural, or preferred route of migration comes as no suprise.
I am not here sticking up for commercial fishing practices, as at times, fishing ethics from both the commercial and recreational sector leaves a lot to be desired.
I have listened to locals bag commercial operators for years on such fish species as whiting, school mackerel etc, and still today, those species of fish are strongly and readily available. The best bits of information for example is the last few years where local anglers seemed to lack average catches of school mackerel, blaming commercial operators for their demise, where in reality, unknown to the rec sector, tonnes upon tonnes of school mackerel sat less than a mile from the grounds in the past where they are annually targeted. Grab a mask and snorkel and dive into the 70ft depths and do your best to count the fish that hang close to the bottom,,,impossible! Every year, climatic changes occur and during fish migrations, conditions such as water clarity, swell height, tides, wind direction and strength, lunar influence, food sources, water temp will all create a set of guidelines that will steer migrating fish into areas that suit their needs. If it suits this year on the coast line or on inshore grounds, anglers will see the fish, if it does not suit, and the schools stay wider on sand and weed bottoms, well,,,,rec anglers will see stuff all.
Line fishing pressure can and does change how, many coastal species will react to baits or lures offered by anglers. Ever wondered why light lines get more bites in many instances on inshore heavily fished reef grounds?? This is just a small example of how fish can and do react to pressure from man. Many fish will not touch a trolled bait for example if it does not meet a superior set of guidelines. In many scenes(not all), catching spanish mackerel for example is a far cry from the methods used in the past.
And one major influnce that can see quieter than normal years, or stronger than normal years is rainfall and habitat destruction also etc.
There is so many variables that relate to this topic, that simple answers will not satisfy all, nor will it solve a management problem. Many scientific studies have more flaws than a cheap imported rug(at times you have to watch, read, or be a part of one to know what i mean,,,i can name many, but it is not the meaning of this thread to bag, but to make us aware of what does go on), and the banding together of science, fishing and a bit of trust and faith in all parties and in humanity needs to be created if the resolving of such issues is ever going to be reached. There is more out there than meets the eye!! I do hope that parties can become involved to help predicaments such as this come to come to an agreement that relates to a fishery that managed correctly is sustainable for ever.
John Mitchell,
Gladstone
IMO, great debate, interesting subject, lots of passionate and reasoned opinions.
Personally I would like to see some input from the commercial sector involved, ie the beach seine haulers themselves.
Would they be prepared to consider a buy out of their relevent licences for an agreed sum?
Would they be happy to be re-established in aquaculture, for example?
More pertinently perhaps, would rec fishers be prepared to help fund these buy-outs?
I have seen the point made on this site before and would have to agree, there are plenty of non commercial fishers who contribute to declining fish stocks.
Sheer weight of numbers of rec fishers, and those 'shamatuers' who like to make money out of selling their catch, these are factors that should be addressed as well, perhaps?
I witnessed Qld beach seine haulers in my immediate vicinity a few years back, illegally operating an ultralite, a jet boat, and an unlicensed freezer truck.
They did nothing to raise their standing in the community here let me assure you, though they may have made a few quick $$$ from the estimated 2 tonnes of mulloway "bycatch", which as you may imagine left locals furious to say the least!
As for the fines that were handed out to them in court, I don't know if they were ever payed, if they were the whole excercise couldn't have been very profitable.
As for mullet, what mullet?
VERY thin on the ground in the local surf gutters these last few years.
Cheers and thanks to all for a good read.
Wow what a thread!The passion here is intense,
Straddie,
# # # # # # # Your first post describes it very well and brings back memories,The only thing you left out was the big meals corned beef and veges and endless cups of tea.I had the experience of a few seasons as a guest of my friend with a crew at Moreton Island as a youngster.The crew was lead by the late Mr Dick Carroll,A true gentleman and master fisherman.It was hard for me at first to see shots being pulled with tonnes of fish fighting for their lives,But I soon realised this was the only thing these men knew.Dick was a real pro,He could tell you what sort of fish they were and how many trays would be pulled from the shot before it was made,I admired his skill and knowledge as a fisherman.
As the debate from the rec fisho versus pro got more public the crew began to release unwanted and undersized fish first and foremost as they were becoming more educated on their impact of the very resorce that supports them.As with most things I think education is the key.
The catch rates are slowly declining for this crew as I still keep in touch with some members,And still fish with my long time friend (Dicks' grandson).He left the crew years ago due to low captures and not enough income to survive.
I was on the end of abuse,A kid at 12 years of age being called a rapist by rec fishos watching the shots,This was very disturbing for me.These blokes are only doing their job right?But deep down inside,Even at that young age understood why they felt the way they did.The scowls and language I remember very clearly.
Personally I release 95% of my catch and I can see both sides of the argument.But this is the only thing alot of these pros know,2nd and 3rd generation fisherman,Fishing to survive.The non fishing public will always want seafood,And this needs to be catered for somehow.
Nothing will last forever if all we do is take it,It needs managment and needs it now,Perhaps aquaculture is the answer?I believe it is our only hope for the future of our wild fish stocks,As they surley can't cope with our growing population.
I don't have any links to DPI to display,Numbers or percentages,Just a little bit of first hand experience with a crew,I've held the lead line down,The cork line up,Hooked snoods from net to tractor,Sorted fish,And mended net.For some reason I'm ashamed of these things,And wish I'd never done em,Also had a lot as a regular fisho,Whiting on hand line through to Barra and Bass on hightech baitcasters.I'm not a greeny or a tree huggin hippy,But I do love my country and the critters within it,My heart lies with conservation.As once it's gone it's gone forever!I feel this is a resource we as a nation can't afford to lose.
flatstrap,Your passion for our country is admirable.
# # # # # # # # # Dunno if this helps,But they're my thoughts. #Regards, hardb8
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #
As a part WE ARE ALL RESPONSIBLE not just one faction gee love a house near the water few more canals dredged land fill over mangroves .how are we changing our coast line and bays to suit ourselves.destruction of seagrass beds pollution. algae bloom in morton bay?it all plays apart lets hope after reading this thread were all a bit wizer iwant my children to enjoy what i have and i love my fishing
There will be days when the fishing is better than one's most optimistic forecast, others when it is far worse. Either is a gain over just staying home.
hardB8
Thank you for your kind words; makes all the slings and arrows pale into insignificance. You really deserve praise for your honesty and courage in admitting how you felt when you were 12 and still feel now.
I don't think it's any sort of excuse to continue unsustainable fishing practices because it's the only thing you know. It's my livelihood now or my livelihood AND the fish later. I don't know of any resource activity that could possibly survive where you destroy your breeding stock.
True, I have passion for my country and will do anything to preserve what we all came here to enjoy....flatstrap
There was an article in the Sunday Mail about the mullet fishermen, but It didnt go into much detail. Only that a single shot can earn them up to $125,000.
Now THERE is some potent motivation.
I heard they were doing it tough!!!!
rando
The trouble with anecdotal and personal memory is that it can only apply to our own experience.
I have read accounts of the mullet migration in past centuries, one was of one school of mullet extending right up the beach from Coolangatta to Surfers. Yes it sounds unbelievable! My point is what we see today is a pale reflection of the natural balance. I agree that the hard working small scale pro fisherman is preferable to a factory style operation. However we need to be realistic, when stocks are getting threatened, we must stop or they will die out- its not a theory.. look at the Atlantic Cod, the Passenger Pigeon in America etc.
Robert
References
Kurlansky, Mark.
Cod : a biography of the fish that changed the world
I too used to live with a mullet fishermen , life was hard we split up in the end its a damn hard job , but its all this family knew from crescent head nsw, and yes they were working nsw then would head up to moreton island and do the run up there also.
these boys knew nothin but mullet fishing , was there fathers business before he passed away . A bit hard to do anything else considering crescent head when they were kids had nothing no employment left school early to work the beaches
up all night and day as the guy posted in above , freezing cold wet most of the time , work wether pouring with rain or not.
damn hard life too. sometimes was hard to put food on the table .
its a hard subject to comment on when youve come from being involved with it even thoughi never liked to see all those fish in that net.
i Read a article in the local paper (Ballina) on wednesday of last week saying they had only netted 3 tonn of the mullet and were concerned it was going to be a bad season. on friday the they netted 20 tonn right in front of the bar as they were heading into the river.
again fisheries are to blame. a guy is the same as me and you who have revolved their lifestye and livelyhood around our fisheries resource. im not sticking up for them but i think if the by back scheme was soo important and valid why has it not been stopped. pencil pushers have no place in our industry.
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