Moreton Bay Fishing update from Andrew Laming MP

[Derek_Bullock]

The fact that the Australian Marine Conservation Society took their mass Bay closure demands off the internet is an incredibly important first step. Replacing ambit claims with a measured approach,will lead to commonsense rules which all Moreton Bay lovers can get behind.

Dear Andrew

As much as I admire your enthusiasm I think you should get your facts right before you make comment.

As you can see from a direct quote below, the AMCS has NEVER taken their demands off their website. #In the lead up to the election they re-wrote and reformatted to make more emphasis. #See http://www.amcs.org.au/default2.asp?active_page_id=303

One of the biggest disapointments on this forum is people misquoting. #All you are doing is making a laughing stock of your credibility.

Regards


Derek

What the Australian Marine Conservation Society is seeking for Moreton Bay Marine Park?
Currently about 0.5% of Moreton Bay Marine Park is fully protected in “green zones” which in Moreton Bay are called “Protection Zones” or “Marine National Parks” in other marine parks. These are places where all marine life and their habitats are fully protected from extractives activities (e.g. oil and gas exploration, fishing). These would equate to the protection given to plants and animals in National Parks on land.

Scientific recommendations suggest that between 20-50% of all habitat types must be protected in our oceans if we are to ensure the healthy and productivity of our seas. Read More ...

Based on these recommendations, the Australian Marine Conservation Society wants to ensure that the health and productivity of Moreton Bay Marine Park is secure. With increasing pressures on Moreton Bay, we want to see between 20-50% of each habitat type in Moreton Bay Marine Park fully protected from harm in Marine National Parks.

Our call for protection is consistent with what marine scientists are increasingly calling for around the globe.

The level of protection given to each habitat would reflect its need. The more sensitive an area is to impact, for example, the more protection it will need. The more important an area is to the productivity of the Bay, the more protection it will need.

Here is another quote from the AMCS website in relation to Moreton Bay. It is at http://www.amcs.org.au/default2.asp?active_page_id=306

University of Queensland, Ecology Centre Director, Professor Hugh Possingham - 2006

“Only 0.5 per cent of the Bay was fully protected”, UQ ecology centre director Hugh Possingham said.

“No-fishing zones in Moreton Bay need to be expanded 20 times just to meet the lowest international standards for protecting marine areas”

Source - Article in The Courier Mail - 26 August (2006)

[Adamy]

As you can see from a direct quote below, the AMCS has NEVER taken their demands off their website. In the lead up to the election they re-wrote and reformatted to make more emphasis. See http://www.amcs.org.au/default2.asp?active_page_id=303

Sorry Derek... But I think you may be a little mistaken about the NEVER part. The AMCS is continually updating and changing their website and most probably whan Mr Laming last checked - their ambit claim wasnt on there - It wasnt there last time I checked either - and I believe that Steve (Ausfish) posted a txt copy of that same page where the ambit claim was removed.

I'm in a bit of a hurry - so I will check my exact facts and maybe mod this post later - but as far as I know Mr Laming was telling the truth as far as he knew it to be true. I dont think we should be attacking him about misquoting when we cant control what the AMCS does with their website - they can change it every day if they like - just to make us all look like fools... check again in a week and see if what you quoted them as saying is still there....

The problem with this whole topic is that its hard to separate facts from rumour... which I suppose is why they do backroom deals - if we had facts - then they wouldnt be secret deals would they. We have to deal with the info we have at that given moment and go from there.

Just my 2 cents.

Adam

[Derek_Bullock]

As you can see from a direct quote below, the AMCS has NEVER taken their demands off their website. In the lead up to the election they re-wrote and reformatted to make more emphasis. See http://www.amcs.org.au/default2.asp?active_page_id=303

Sorry Derek... But I think you may be a little mistaken about the NEVER part. The AMCS is continually updating and changing their website and most probably whan Mr Laming last checked - their ambit claim wasnt on there - It wasnt there last time I checked either - and I believe that Steve (Ausfish) posted a txt copy of that same page where the ambit claim was removed.

I'm in a bit of a hurry - so I will check my exact facts and maybe mod this post later - but as far as I know Mr Laming was telling the truth as far as he knew it to be true. I dont think we should be attacking him about misquoting when we cant control what the AMCS does with their website - they can change it every day if they like - just to make us all look like fools... check again in a week and see if what you quoted them as saying is still there....

The problem with this whole topic is that its hard to separate facts from rumour... which I suppose is why they do backroom deals - if we had facts - then they wouldnt be secret deals would they. #We have to deal with the info we have at that given moment and go from there.

Just my 2 cents.

Adam

I am sorry Adam but you are wrong. #I monitor this website regularly, possibly every two to three days. THE AMCS HAVE NEVER REMOVED THAT SECTION FROM THEIR WEBSITE. #It may have been moved but has never been removed.

Regards


Derek

[fishingjew]

# # # Inquiry into Australia's national parks, conservation reserves and marine protected areas
Terms of Reference
The Senate has referred the following matter to the Committee for inquiry and report by 30 November 2006: JUST one of the
Submissions

Australian Marine Conservation Society Submission

[Adamy]

Hey Derek... I know you're a moderator and all... but if you type it bigger (shout it any louder)... I MAY just get the point.

I probably dont monitor the amcs website as often as you - my point was that they did change it in the intervening period... which was no reason - in my opinion - to say that Laming was misquoting and consequently making a comment about his credibility. Until you pointed out that they had replaced the ambit claim - I was unaware and was under the belief that they had removed it as was Mr Laming.

If anyone is doing themselves a disservice I fear it may be you. We are all on the same side here and should welcome help and support from any quarter, particularly those who can give us a voice where we need it most. I understand we have to be wary... I'm not eating up everything anyone gives me - and we are free to pick and choose what we like - we can accept his support on fishing issues and reject their policies on others... thats the wonderful thing about this country.

By the way I think as a moderator you should be leading the way in "moderation" and not attacking other members or posters - how are we supposed to restrain ourselves when we see the example you are setting? Who is watching the watchers???

My 3 cents (the price is going up )

Adam

[Derek_Bullock]

Adam

For a start Adam I suggest you stop talking rubbish.

When a person states things as being fact, particularly when that person is supposedly a respected member of parliament, then they should check the facts first. Look at what he said, he didnt say maybe or perhaps he said it was a fact.

If I hadnt of mentioned this today then every Ausfish member and visitor reading it would have been under the impression that the AMCS had backed away from their threats to close 30 to 50% of Moreton Bay to fishing.

If you want to go back far enough on Ausfish you will find it was me who first raised the issues about Moreton Bay Marine Park and the threatened closures as put forward by the AMCS. Yes, back then noone was really listening. Talk to Gary Fookes, noone listened to him either.

Contrary to what Mr Laming has said, the AMCS is hell bent on closing up to 50% of the bay. Look properly at their website. That hasnt changed and will most likely never will.

Don't be fooled they wont give up.


Derek

PS

If you want to talk about moderating, maybe Mr Laming should be banned from Ausfish for misleading the public. If he talked like this in the House he would most likely be banned there for misleading Parliament.

[fishingmaddad]

Andrew,
As a federal member how about upping the ante on the Responsible State Minister for the Environment by writing them and conveying the needs of all anglers who have been done a disservice during the Caretaker Government weeks just past and require a Ministerial Forum be set-up.
Public Forums are a good start, Television and newspaper coverage are also good conveyance tools but it is at the table with the Responsible Minister that the REAL IMPACT & EXTENT OF DISCONTENT OF POOR DECISIONS AND POORER MANAGEMENT HYPOTHESISES ARE TAKEN ON BOARD AND REAL ACTION TAKEN!!!!
All pollies irrespective of party politics know numbers and the effect that ticking off huge numbers of voters across the state is not a desirious path to take or continue along.

GLADSTONE THRU BUNDABERG DOWN HERVEY BAY THRU TO RAINBOW BEACH/INSKIP POINT, PLUS YEEPOON & CAIRNS, ALL, FROM VERBAL ADVICE FROM FRIENDS, COLLEAGUES AND BUSINESS AQUANTANCES LIVING IN THE AREAS AFFECTED BY THE CARETAKETAKER GOVERNMENT ROLLOUT ON THE 31-08-2006. >

WE IN BUNDABERG MAY NOT HAVE THE SHEER NUMBERS AS BRISSIE BUT THE NUMBERS ARE STRONG, PROUD, DEDICATED, HAVE LOCAL CITY AND SHIRE COUNCIL OFFICERS SUPPORT AND WON'T BE SILENCED OR IGNORED BY THE STATE GOV .

Thanks for taking your constituents cause on board and thanks in advance for assisting all affected in getting the Responsible State Minister to the discussion table via a Ministerial Forum.

[Derek_Bullock]

Hi Fishingmaddad

Unfortunately for you and everyone else affected by the Great Sandy Marine Park, the decision was made by Government months before the election that 31 August 2006 would be the commencement date for the GSMP.

So contrary to your information, the GSMP was not implemented by a caretaker government.

Regards


Derek

[Adamy]

So Derek... is this the standard of communication we are looking for on this site?? With Mods abusing members??

The rest of what you said.... I agree with... I dont think AMCS is ever going to stop until we are all vegans.

I just think you need to tone it down a bit, we all get emotional from time to time - but now you're having a go at me... if you want to resort to a slanging match, I can get as dirty as the rest of them - just ask any of the guys on here who have taken objection to my "style". I just dont think theres any need for that especially when we are on the same side. Think perhaps you should take a big deep breath - step back and maybe take a minute to mod yourself. At least under your handle it says "Ausfish Moderator"... Isn't that supposed to mean something?

Perhaps since you are such a regular visitor to the amcs website you may be able to post here a copy of the page that Laming was referring to where the claim had been moved and placed elsewhere - that may help remove some of the confusion surrounding this issue. If you cant obtain such - I will try some of my sources... only because it seems so important to you.

OK... over to you

[Derek_Bullock]

Adam

The reason that I am a moderator on the News Section of Ausfish is because I was the one who asked Steve Brown to create it so that we all had a place to debate issues that had the potential to impact on recreational fishers. In fact I initially wanted it as a board specifically where TFPQ could bring matters to peoples attention.

Go back through the pages on here and see how many posts I actually started when we first kicked off and got highly criticised for. I am as passionate as anyone about this topic, but lets make sure we deal in the facts.

Here is my original post back in December last year trying to bring to peoples attention that up to 50% closures were coming to Moreton Bay http://www.ausfish.com.au/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1135627097

Do you and everyone else here know that the Beattie Governemnt has promised to have Marine Parks from the Gulf to the Goldcoast. Right now between Double Island Point and Caloundra there isnt one. Here is my post warning people of a Sunshine Coast Marine Park. Don't wait for it to be announced start working on Governement now because the conservationists certainly will be. http://www.ausfish.com.au/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1136764863

There is another one somewhere warning people about a Goldcoast Marine Park. Think what would happen if the close in reefs were Green Zones.

Check this one out where I raised a concern about PETA being listed on the EPA website. Through Ausfish we stopped that and had it removed. http://www.ausfish.com.au/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1140930243

Look at this one that I posted up calling for an Action Group for Moreton Bay and got flogged for it. Oh yes someone did listen and the the Moreton Bay Action Alliance happened. I had a chuckle on that one. http://www.ausfish.com.au/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1142126312

Yes mate, even though I no longer live in Queensland I am very passionate about my old fishing grounds.

What annoys me Adam is the misinformation, lies and misquotes that are placed on here as fact. It has to stop and people need to start dealing in facts not fantasy.

As for the AMC website, the whole format changed after it recently got hacked but everything is still there.

Your critcism of me as a Moderator are uncalled for.


Derek

[Adamy]

Derek... Your criticism and slinging off at other members is also uncalled for.

You may have done great work in the past and your work now may also be good - but there is room here for us all here, just because Steve created this section at your behest - doesn't mean it belongs to you. (Well if Steve pms me or states publicly that this forum is strictly your domain - i.e. you own it and one else has the right to an opinion - then so be it I will apologise and leave you to it!)

There are others besides yourself (and myself) who are working to save our rights to fish the bay. So what if they only just started caring or if they were with you holding your hand from the very beginning, the point is they/we are here now and ready and willing to work. If you want to be the sole bastion of good sense and want to be known as the Saviour of the bay - great go for it but in my opinion you shouldn't be running people down who are just trying to help - you are hurting the cause not helping it by driving in wedges.

Normally I would be having this discussion in private but at the risk of hijacking the whole thread I think it needs to be stated publicly that your abuse of other contributors is not worthy of you, of the site or of the cause in general.

Had a brief look at your "actions"... OK so you're a hero... I'm not!!! I'm just a guy who wants to take my kids fishing - yes I'm a johnny come lately... but I'm here now and don't appreciate people like you telling everyone else (not just me) that what they have to contribute is rubbish... its just a tad rude in my opinion.

You want to deal in FACTS the FACTS are that the ambit claim had been removed for a time - yes it may have been on another page - but it was taken down (off the original page) about the week before the election. The FACTS are that it was there, then it wasnt, now it is. I cant read minds but I dont think Andrew Laming said what he said as a deliberate lie ... what did he have to gain? It appears to me that you are the only one that has anything to gain here... after all its YOUR site and you are the ONLY one who is allowed to have an opinion or be correct.

If you want to talk about moderating, maybe Mr Laming should be banned from Ausfish for misleading the public. If he talked like this in the House he would most likely be banned there for misleading Parliament.

Derek... you ONLY like FACTS?? then there is no FACT in the above statement... I suggest you get your FACTS right before you make statements about what it takes to get banned from Parliament!!

I really dont care about the FACTS - its your blatant abuse of other members including myself that I have an objection with. If it was anyone else they would be yellow carded by now but it appears you can say anything you like under the guise of "moderator".
Like I said: Who is watching the watchers?

Oh.... you'd better copy and paste this post now - as I have a habit of modding my own posts.

[stevedemon]

Hi all
Derek we are all in this together and the facts are that some time integrity of comments is the best place to get action not hostilities
some of my comments can some times go down like a lead ballon until someone places me back on the right track
as you know the important thing is that some times we all need to step back and when someone see the criticism is out of place them democarcy has to step in

yes we all remember when you posted these articles as this is when some of us started to look at what was going on around us and some just thought you were speaking for the sake of talking

you do have a lot of knowledge that can be put to good use and in the right frames but also when people and out there trying to do some good even if it is to help them politically so long as they are helping is a bonus and we should all place Credit where Credit is due and this goes to you as well

your thoughts are in the right places but some times you are a little over bearing

i have a saying and please take this as it is meant in a good way

this is my saying and i will stick to it

People are individuals
and
indivduals make a
community
we should never forget
where we come from

we are all knowledgable in our own way with different views and ideas
if we take the knowledge given and gain from this knowledge it is a bonus
but for those that close there minds it is a waste of time
we can all learn from one another to greater our cause a wealth of knowledge is better than wealth of money and no knowledge

sorry being a bit theartical but the message is we are all here to help one another the more ideas we have to put to this board the better we all understand of what is going on and if we make mistakes along the way and are willing to admit the mistake we have learnt

in the time over the last couple of weeks reading most of your post i have learnt to respect some of your feelings and knowledge but i have also notices that some times your comment are unwarranted
as a mod you should look to remember democarcy is freedom of speak

Cheers
Steve

[Derek_Bullock]

Sigh ! ! ! ! ! ! !

I give up. You have it your way.

[Loco_Pez]

Mr Laming, I didn't see any mention in your post regarding consultation with TFPQ. What is your position in regard to TFP ? The results achieved by the TFP independants in the election has proven that they have the support of many people so I would expect you would be liaising with them if you share their comitment to preserving the rights of fishos & others.

Derek, I have to agree with Steve. I think you have over reacted. Your CV is impressive but trotting it out to prove that you are better than someone else and bashing them over the head with it achieves nothing. Being a leader on this issue is about educating & inspiring others to join the cause & showing some humility.

LP

[dazza]

did dereks last post say what i think it meant last time he picked up his bat and ball, he came back. i don't necessarily agree with his style, but derek does spend alot of time researching this topic. don't agree on turning it into a i am better than you debate.

we all know what a fact is- the piece of skin between your ballbag and your arse

back to the topic

last federal election i gave both lib and labour candidates a call to hear their views on rec fishing etc. nearly fell off of my chair when the labour guy said they were looking at "whale corridors up the east coast" no go green zones. haven't heard anymore,
mr lamming are any of your staffers able to find out if this it still on the table of not
cheers
dazza