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Thread: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

  1. #1
    gif
    Guest

    Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    Thanks to Steve for the invitation to lay out the facts - as unbiased as I can. #

    What's all this talk about closures to Moreton Bay? # Well … no one knows for sure, but it is certain that there will be dramatic changes.

    The facts as we know it:

    1. Queensland Marine Parks must be reviewed every ten years and Moreton Bay is due for review in 2007. #This park covers from Caloundra in the north to the southern tip of South Stradbroke. #It includes the lower reaches of estuaries even as far as Coombabah Lake and at least 6 klm east of the islands.

    2. Well organized and funded conservation groups have been lobbying for more than a year for 50% closures of the entire park. # #One Group alone, the ACF has a $7m annual budget.

    3 There is a firm commitment to further restrictions and more parks. As the government web site says: #In keeping with the Queensland Government's commitment to establish marine parks from the Gold Coast to the Gulf of Carpentaria, a number of new marine parks are proposed.

    4 The Government has made no announcements or plans. # With an election about to be called in Queensland we will not hear any unpopular news about closures until after the election.


    If we don’t know what’s planned what we can learn from other recent Marine Park Closures/reviews?



    1 There will be definite plans to significantly restrict recreational fishing. In the Great Barrier Reef they closed 33% in area but took nearer to 80% by taking the best areas. #They did this by asking “where do you fish so we don’t take it accidentally” then zoned those exact areas as green. (no fishing)

    2 In the Great Sandy Straights Park (Hervey Bay) there will be large areas that are “protected” #from recreational fishing but open to commercial fishing and even aquaculture.


    3 The decisions will be made in political deals and lobbying. # Science was ignored, damage to business and economy was ignored up north. #Petitions and protest meetings made little difference in the north. # The closure of 33% of the Barrier Reef was a political deal: # Howard did a deal with the Democrats to get the #GST passed in the Senate.



    What is being done?

    Various groups are meeting, forming alliances and making plans. # #The pity is that that means we are 2 years behind the better organized greenies. # #Sunfish, Some Clubs, The Fishing Party and individuals are all calling meetings and calling for help.


    What can I do?

    Get one of the experts like Rick Huckstepp or the Fishing Party to speak at your fishing club #- then get the club to decide to write or protest or help hand out how to vote cards at the election.

    Organize letters to your local member - just say the Park needs to be fair and based on science #- and not just to get the Green preferences at election.

    Think carefully about your vote at the next election. #It’s a tough choice.

    Labor has changed from the workers party to a greenie party. #Remember the Tasmanian timber workers in the last election? #Labour said they would save the trees not the jobs.

    Liberals and Nationals #also have some green policies but will probably reduce the closures.

    The Fishing Party will never win government. # But if you decide to make your vote a protest vote at the other parties then they are the best choice. # The more votes they get the more the government will listen to us and the less to the Greens.

    Greens and Democrats? # #If they win then take up Golf and sell the boat quick, before the price crash. #



    For more government details and maps see http://www.epa.qld.gov.au/parks_and_...s/moreton_bay/


    Thanks for reading this. # I am not an expert but have learned a lot about politics in the last year. # The above is a bland and I tried to be unbiased - accept it as that. # #I wont argue or comment further on this post except where clarification is sought. #

    Gary

  2. #2

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    Gary,
    Thanks for your information you have provided. I think what you failed to mention in your summary for the political parties is this:

    1. The current libs and nationals at the federal level are responible for the debacle in the Great Barrier reef marine park. So they won't be any help.

    2. Labor certainly haven't gone form the workers party to the greenies party. Who is standing up to Howard on his anti-worker legislation? Labor is.

    I agree with the seniment everyone is dispalying towards any proposed closure of moreton bay.

    Just thought I would add my comment about your summary of the political parties.

  3. #3
    gif
    Guest

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    I think what you failed to mention in your summary for the political parties is this:

    1. The current libs and nationals at the federal level are responible for the debacle in the Great Barrier reef marine park




    I think I did when I write:



    The closure of 33% of the Barrier Reef was a political deal: Howard did a deal with the Democrats to get the GST passed in the Senate.



  4. #4

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    2. Labor certainly haven't gone form the workers party to the greenies party. Who is standing up to Howard on his anti-worker legislation? Labor is.
    That's all very well, what has the state labor government done for you lately, apart from running down essential services in the state. Lets face it if there is an extra vote in, it they will side with the Greenies, against workers every time, and too bad if that impacts on the economy, or an average persons pastime or employment. Get it though your head, the workers are taken for granted because they know they will get that rusted on vote. The swinging voters are the ones they listen to. You may never vote anything but labor, but the Labor party doesn't need to know that.

    Camo


  5. #5

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    Good work Fooksy (can I call you that?)

    I couldnt have said it better or without emotion. Particularly your thoughts about what "we" can do. At the local level, if your local member receives a deluge of mail from local residents (from whom they wish to seek votes) then they will place pressure on the on the "minister for getting rid of the fishing fraternity". We have to do more than voice concern tho - we have to threaten their political livelihood (I dont mean threaten them physically) I mean threaten to take away your vote.

    The very first role of Government is to stay in Government, the very first role of the sitting member is to retain their position i.e keep their job.

    Its the only thing they understand....


  6. #6

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    Gary,

    Sorry mate. Your report did mention how Howard sold fisherman out in the GBR affair.

    Hicksy


  7. #7
    DaveSue_Fishos_Two
    Guest

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    I can't understand why the labour govt in Queensland would need to side with the greens, or anybody for that matter. Sure they might get touched up a bit in the next election, but they will still walk in. They have absolutely no opposition. Why would they side for the green's support when it would put them out of favour with so many constituents? Can anyone answer this please? I honestly don't understand.

    Cheers
    Dave

  8. #8
    gif
    Guest

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    Dave

    I think they side with the Greens Party to get their preferences. Yes you may have a point. I think you are saying they don't need then this time. But they will one day and these are long term deals.

    But there is a green streak inside the Labor party - and streatk is now over 50% wide.

    Gary

  9. #9

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reel Nauti
    I can't understand why the labour govt in Queensland would need to side with the greens, or anybody for that matter. Sure they might get touched up a bit in the next election, but they will still walk in. They have absolutely no opposition. Why would they side for the green's support when it would put them out of favour with so many constituents? Can anyone answer this please? I honestly don't understand.

    Cheers
    Dave
    Sometimes it seems more like the greens are simply a extreme off shoot from labor - a vote for the greens is a proxy vote for labor...

    Back to the pollies primary role - stay in Govt....

    Even in the most blue collar died in the wool - safest labor seats - they always seek greens preferences - why?? see above.... its like insurance - you may never need it - but if you ever do -its nice to have it there ready.

    I think you will find that labor does these preference deals at a national level... labor has a caucus and once the caucus makes a decision the rest of the party has no choice but to go along with it.... thats the purpose of the caucus.... rarely do you ever see labor cross the floor as the libs and Nats did today... Libs and Nats are allowed to vote or abstain on matters of conscious (the party doesnt like it - but are still allowed) labor pollies are not permitted the same privilege. Even if they can make these decisions at the State level, you will often find that party discipline will determine the outcome.

    Sound like crap?? I've been there... done that I know... but if anyone still has doubts - feel free to collect a greens how to vote card at any election... prefs are always directed to labor and vice versa


  10. #10

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    Hi all, rob's the name. I joined many moon phases back, but forgot my password, so have just been sandbagging for years now. Just watchin and reading what you guys have had to say..

    But I just had to re-register and mention my thought on this, and hope I don't become well hated on my first post here.

    I wasn't aware of the news posted here on the thread regarding an aproaching closure, and I don't trust anything gov. does anymore. I did used to trust one in a fairly serious way, but frankly I just don't like any of am anymore. Maybe I'm just too cynical.

    Anyway to the point. I've long believed giving the bay a break is a great idea. I don't mean from recreational fishing, while continuing to allow commercial fishing also though. that seems just too bizarre.

    I worked on a trawler as a kid (very short time, it genuinely upset the hell out of me to do it), and for the claim to be accpted at any level that they don't destroy fish, because they're targetting prawns is incredible. No, not incredible, just straight out lie. We caught entire schools of 2-3 inch long mackeral. Probably spotties, maybe spaniards, I wouldn't be sure at that small a size. But it was heart breaking.

    My thoughts of closing the bay off for a while is based entirely on the memory of how the fishing was as a kid, compared to now. I believe more fish are being caught in the bay this season than have been for quiet a while. But still, as hard as it would be to cop, and I'd hurt over it too. Maybe just a few (3) year total ban, by total I mean that of course commercial fishing (which ought to be banned in the bay forever); would give us back a better fishery. A few years of parent stock raising up, the breeding rate would benefit by more breeding age fish re-producing say 3 times, instead of just the once (if they're lucky).

    I would imagine the fishing would continue to improve after the theoretical (my theoretical I mean) ban was lifted and we all went back hard at it, because there would simply be a larger adult pool to knock out youngsters.

    My theory would also have to implement an irreversible and complete commercial ban, from trawling to drift netting etc..

    Anyway, I don't get to make any rules so it's not like my thoughts would ever amount to anything, and I really enjoy bass fishing, so I'd have something else to do. I understand of course those who are keen on the very unique fishing style the bay offers, and don't get into creeks and such would suffer very harshly for those few years.

    Just a thought anyway. I couldn't imagine myself supporting any of the plans I read here. That's pretty sure.

    cheers all
    rob

  11. #11

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    Rob no one is going to hate you for having an opinion, we are all entitled to have one. I dont know if a full closure for 3 years would be the answer though. It would be to easy for the toads in parilment to turn around at the end of it and say, no sorry but we have decided to closure the area permanently. And it would place a great deal of economic hardship onto all those who make a living out of the bay, eg charter boats and the like.

    I do agree with you about the slaughter caused by trawlers and the like. I did a short time on a trawler and was appalled by the murder of everything that came up in the nets. There has to be a better way to fish commercially and still manage not to kill everything. I was watching a program recently and instead of the diamond shaped netting that is used on most trawlers they where using square shaped which didnt close up. This allowed the smaller fish a chance to escape and to grow up and breed the next generation. This is only a small thing but one that imho would make a world of difference.

    As I have mentioned in other posts, (Our Fishing Future) temporary rolling closures would allow our fishing stocks to recover and having read more and more recently I do think it would have a smaller economic impact on those who make a living on the water. These closures could be adapted to anywhere in australia and give the next generations a chance to inherit a fishery that we have done something to help preserve.

    Not all of the population can get out and enjoy catching their own fish, eg elderly, health infirmed and our country bretheren. They are all entitled to enjoy a feed of fish which is their right, so some commercial fishing is a must. Having said that I do believe that trawlers and the like SHOULD be banned totally from esturarys. These areas are the breeding ground for a lot of different fish populations and the nursery to most of them.

    We do need commercial fishing and to say otherwise would be daydreaming. Even with the level of commercial fishing that excists at present we are still being flooded with imports of fish and prawns that have the potential to hurt our fishing stocks with introduced virues and the like. I was in a supermarket the other day and saw in the freezer section flathead in beer batter, looking at the package i discovered it was a product of malaysia. What are we coming to when we have one of the most diverse fishing enviroments in the world and we import flathead and everyother fish.

    To all those who have read my ramblings in the past I apologize for putting you through it again. I think that it is something that has to be put out there. It is too bad that the politicians dont come here to listen to the people who have a stack in the future and who could given them some sensible ideas others than those offered by the extreme greens. I know there are a lot more experienced fisho's in these pages than myself and a lot more intelligent and a lot better with expressing themselves.

    This is just one persons opinion who enjoys being able to go fishing when I am physically able to or have the time away from work to be able to do so.


    Kel

  12. #12

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    Hey Kel... Well reasoned comments as always, I for one would be in favour of temporary rolling closures (rather than total bans) - although the policing and management... letting all stakeholders know the rules everytime they change could be an administrative issue that might need to be economically addressed before such as recommendation could become viable. Its much easier to perform (and police) a total and permanent lock out than it is to manage the whole rolling closure thing... from an administrative point of view...

    But then again that would provide employment for another billion bureaucrats to manage the 3 parks and wild life officers doing the actual work... so perhaps this Govt might go for it

    and yeh Rob - everyone is entitled to an opinion here.... thats why we put our stuff up... others are also entitled to disagree - thats the great thing about this site.... so welcome "back".


  13. #13

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    Hi All

    As a person who used to frequent Fraser quite regularly, i completely agreed with the restrictions they placed on Fraser Is. A 2 month ban from Waddy to Indian in spawning season and a ban on netters! This has and will continue to go a long way to ensuring our kids will enjoy the same elations as we enjoy in catching fish! It's not a total ban but a very sensible one!

    In this, i support a similiar one for Moreton Bay! Something must be done to ensure future stocks and regeneration however i don't believe a TOTAL ban is necessary or required and one such ban is purely political for Beattie and his cohorts! Nothing more, nothing less! Banning of Trawlers in Estuaries is certainly one that should head the list!

    We do need to gather a voice and maybe not just the regular fisho but how about some industry spokespeople and businesses from bait and tackle shops to marine suppliers and traders! They are the ones that really will hurt! It is a multi million dollar industry in this state and surely to god this must have an impact with the right spokespeople/representatives?!?!?

    Just my opinion...

    Take Care T
    home is where the loan is...
    Helping people get the RIGHT Home Loan


  14. #14

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    Guys, This topic sure is raising some emotive comments.

    Just two points:

    1. Dont forget how the water crisis plays into all this. All these near sighted fools who think we can solve our problems by building more dams and fitting water tanks to houses to further reducing the flow of the rivers & creeks are increasing the damage to the environment by not allowing the natural food flow down the estuaries. We need to reduce consumption or find other sources of water to preserve the rivers and creeks which feed our fishing habitat.

    2. If you want to send a message but also want to retain your vote for your party, then take the time on the senate ticket to fill out all the boxes, put the Fishing Party 1 and then whatever preference you want 2 etc etc. That way even if the fishing party doesnt get a senate position, your preferences flow the way you want but the primary vote (which all the major parties analyse to death) shows what matters to you.

    BTW, I am (am I expect a lot of you are) fully in favour of closures which are justified through scientific means as a process of management which will ensure the sustainability of our fishing resource.

  15. #15

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    I know that this gov will try and pad the books if rolling closures where to come into affect. Beattie and his lot seem to be able to find money when it comes to their agenda but not for the important things that need addressing, eg health, education and the list goes on. With rolling closures a map could be drawn up and the date of closures could be published at the same time. This way the extreme greens and labour would have a limited window of padding jobs for their mates.

    I am now off work for a few months with health issues so I am going to sit down with some charts and try to take this idea a little further. I would really appreciate any input that ppl here would like to offer. Once there is a consense of what we all consider a fair deal I would like to submit it to the fishing party and my local mp to see if this could be taken anywhere.

    Permanent closures are NOT the answer to anything. A full scientific project needs to be set up to monitor these closures by an independent body. If permanent closures are going to be stopped we have to have a supporting arguement and plan, not just saying that they wont work. That isnt going to convince anyone.

    Together maybe we can submit a plan that will stop this nonsense of permanent closures of OUR fishing grounds and give the younger and next generation something to be proud of. I am not saying I have the answer to everything, but I would like to think that maybe I have at least contributed in my own small way.

    Please if anyone has any suggestions you would like to make dont hesitate to pm me.

    Kel

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