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Thread: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

  1. #16

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    Hey Kel

    I reckon your idea of rolling closures is one of the most sensible suggestions I have heard or read to date. I think there is a lot of potential in the idea, and look foward to hearing any developements on the issue.

    My initial thoughts,

    what do you consider a closer? All species in an area, or one species in all area's a certain times. I think something like the closure on Tailor at Frazer for spawning and barramundi for spawning makes sense. Gives a species the best chance to procreate if we're not hitting them when they are getting it on .

    For instance I know the bream are targeted this time of year as they are getting ready to spawn, but shouldn't we let them do their business at this time of year, rather than catching them with a bellie full of babies
    Same go's for the flathead in spring.

    To me it seems if all fishing presure (comercial and rec) was taken off a species during thier spawning time it would greatly improve reproduction...

    I would be more than happy to help you develope your idea Kel, if I can help in any way send me a pm.
    cheers
    Juzo

  2. #17

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    The current Govt. of this state has a mean-green streak to them. They already know where we all fish and have the solution to resolve the situation. But by doing that doesn't appease the radical few greenie with political voices, so we got the rough end of the pineapple for the green votes they hope to obtain. What amazes me is that, there are hundreds of thousands of fishos out there, and we are force to live the way a few green minority want us to. I'm no political strategist, but milions petition signatures in a bundle of papers doesn't have the same impact on the 6 O'clock news as a few thousand thousands of boaties dragging there boats around the CBD on a friday arvo.
    Just a thought.

    Wayne.




    Humility is not a weather condition.

  3. #18

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    Mate I was thinking about total closure of any area at a time, eg the pin totally for 2 years and so on through the bay. Your thoughts have a lot of merit and I do think they would go a long way to helping the problems. I dont know how enforcement would go with closing the bay for certain species, you know how bloody sneaky we fisho's are. With the idea of closing a area totally then anyone caught in that area with fishing gear and the like could be fined with a pretty good confidence that they are poaching. I think that your idea is great for species like crabs and the like. They could have a set season other than the spawning times in late spring and early summer. This way we can sustain the species for years to come. And limiting the number of commercial fishermen that are able to catch crabs instead of the open slaughter that is in place now. Perhaps setting up commercial licences for crabbing alone and stopping the trawlers catching them altogether.

    The more I think about this the more it starts making sense to me, why hasnt anyone else thought about this before.

    Kel

  4. #19
    DaveSue_Fishos_Two
    Guest

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    From what I have read and listened to, the govt has not considered any sort of parital/total ban at all. In fact, if Minister Boyle is to believed, she has reiterated time and again that nothing will be considered until at least next year.

    Ok, so maybe we are not getting the whole truth, if we aren't then I put forward the following question. If the Labor govt has federally detemined links with the greens, and even if it does so as insurance, how could TFPQ hope to influence the labor govt if it directed it's preferences in that direction, and if not, what assurances have there been from the Libs/Nats that they will listen to TFPQ? If historically the Labor Party tows the Green line, then surely it cannot also heed to the voice of TFPQ? So where does that leave our vote for TFPQ?

    Please don't misinterpret what I am saying here, I mean no antagonism, I simply wonder.

    Cheers
    Dave

  5. #20
    Bundy_Burp
    Guest

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    Rolling closures are a stupid idea whats the point of closing an area only to have it picked clean by a rush of people when its open again .
    All rolling closures are going to do is open the door for the greenies and other fringe elements to try and close the areas for good .
    It will start with a month or two closures here and then 3 or 4 months there then they would close things for good .
    What we have to be able to do is show people that as a group we can control the situation by ourselves .
    I know that in the past there were many stories about the huge cacthes and such but that was then and this is now , and I also know that we have left this problem go on for far too long .
    Maybe a greater presence on the water in terms of the DPI and maybe lowering of bag limits may help its a huge problem but if we dont start doing something about it soon the closures wont be far off .

    Bundy

  6. #21

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    Dave makes the valid point about TFPQ votes and preference arrangements and I have to say this is not an overnight or even 1 election issue. It will take years of concerted effort and to windback the historical Labor/Greens relationship will not be easy.

    It should be said that in theory we are a working mans sport and should have a common bond with Labor. That they have, on some issues, deserted traditional roots in exchange for more radical environmental policy is strange, but power and the quest for power do stange things.

    IF the Fishing Party vote exceeds the green vote in the electorates we stand in at the next election then eyebrows will be raised.

    If next state election, instead of standing in a handful of seats we stand in 20 or 30 then TFPQ preferences become more "valuable" than green party preferences...that's when things change.

    As to wether we can trust the conservatives to honour election promises I must say, to date, the federal Government has met every committment it made. Maybe we didn't actually ask for enough, but the issues we raised of importance to TFPQ membership were all ultimately accepted as reasonable and all enacted. Additional to this we have continued dialog and continued access to politicians and another major announcement in terms of recreational fishing will soon be forthcoming.

    Our "best case scenario"

    Stand in 7 to 9 seats.

    Poll average of 8 to 10% in those seats (Greens average 4% in Qld seats)

    Poll sufficfently well in Cairns that our preferences result in the Environment Minister losing her seat.

    Become mainstream news as a result which builds awareness, profile, membership and industry support.

    Be ready to run in 20 seats in 2010......and between now and then have a major bargaining position with the State Government, because 1 election starts the day after the last one finishes.

    Hope that makes some sense Dave,,,,it took the Green Party over 20 years to reach this point. We have been at it for 1 1/2.

    KC

  7. #22

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    I agree with you rob i think it could be food for thought, but may be
    a total closure of the bay to commercial fisherman and may be 3 months
    a year to recreational fisherman we have to look at some sort solution
    if you look at other places around australia n.t and s.a there closures have been very succesful and they have great fisheries we have to be
    willing to sacrifice something and not be altogether greedy for the
    almighty dollar we must stop thinking we are owed somthing lets
    think of the future


    terah

  8. #23

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    Yeah I can see your point about rolling closures rather than full blown, and reckon you're right. I have to admit I hadn't put a load of thought into it, but what thought I had put into it was cushioned by the fact that we now in Queensland have great freshwater fishing. Which we didn't have as a kid. That banning saltwater fishing in any degree would have been disasterous for closures of any sort. So even if one doesn't like bass, or Saratoga etc; they can get by trying it out for a while during any such closure these days.

    Perhaps if a submission is going to be made to the gov on this issue, maybe closures oughtn't be considered too much until
    A. Some rain puts a decent level of water back into the dams
    and B. a serious upping of fresh water stocks if needed might be worth considering in anticipation, to offset the heavier fishing load such places as impoundments might experience when a closure does happen.

    Maybe I am daydreaming, but I would like to see the end of commercial fishing, because I just can't see the value in it against the environmental (fishing sustainability). I can barely stand these days, I have degeneration of several discs in a row. One wave in the lap and I'm paralyised. A misballanced cast and I'll follow my pichard off the rocks and go swimming lol.

    But before it all went sour (the fishing ), we all had such decent catches that no old codger I knew, or disabled person went without fish. if we could get the fishing back to some level of what it used to be, those who can no longer fish would still get a feed, from their neighbour's excess though, not dragged up in a net. And stopping the destruction of fish from those nets are a step in the right direction to making the fishing well enough to toss every old bloke in the street a few fish again aswell.

    I do admit I'm "bloody minded" on this one point though.

    A mate I used to see a bit of ( I haven't seen him for years now) was part of the Barra breeding program at Deception Bay some 15 years ago now. (didn't that do well).
    I spent a fair bit of time hanging around there, and they were experimenting with breeding everything from whiting to mangrove jack. the jacks werre a monumental failure at that point, but whiting and flathead was pretty well sorted out, and as I understand it, the technology is available right now. (has been for years). In fact I vaiguely recall them releasing some in Pumistone Passage a number of years ago. (maybe 10 years back?)

    Now what my hangd up is with nets ; is simply that to spend all that money of researching the breeding, and then to do the job (and they lost batch after batch to problems); only to finally release them and have them swim straight into a net is a nightmare.

    Of course, closing a spot to netting while a potential stocking took place is as real as any other option I suppose. But they'd have to ban the fishing for as long as it took or those fish to reach breeding age to be safe i think, and that's quiet a while. But the thought of each fish having a $ value, and then having those fish thrown over as "trash" from a prawn shot really makes me wonder how we could ever influence a gov. to fund a stocking program of open water fish, while indiscriminate means of destruction exists.

    Anyway, just a thought.
    cheers all
    rob

  9. #24

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    Instead of rolling closures, why don't they put two permanent fisheries inspectors at every public boat ramp accessing Moreton Bay and check every single boat and their catch. Increase the number of boats & staff they have on the water.

    It wouldn't take long for the grubs who take too much or take undersized fish, crab etc to be caught.
    It might not be all a case of overfishing rather a case of too many people doing the wrong thing.

    How many times have you been at the boat ramp and people have been showing mates their fish they have caught which are undersize or been fishing on a jetty or at the beach and seen people take undersize fish.

    Obviously education plays a large part in this and a strong deterent such as huge fines or loss of fishing gear should apply. I for one would pay an extra $10 a year on both my boat and trailer rego just to see this happen.

    What do you think?

    Hicksy

  10. #25
    DaveSue_Fishos_Two
    Guest

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    Kev what you say makes a lot of sense, and if TFPQ's direction of preferences would result in the minister losing her seat that would indicate allocation of preferences to the Libs/Nats. If the Federal Labor Party directs all states/territories to work hand in glove with the Greens, and the states/territories have no recourse as has been mentioned, how could TFPQ swing the Labor Party away from the Greens? Surely this would have to done at a Federal level?

    Cheers
    Dave

  11. #26
    Bundy_Burp
    Guest

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    I think the idea of more DPI inspectors would make a lot more sense than rolling closures also decreasing bag limits and increasing minium size of fish would also make a big difference in my opinion.
    Like I have said before whats the good of closing an area only to have it picked clean in a mad rush as soon as it is opened again .

    Bundy

  12. #27

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    Hi all,

    good to see some time and effort being put in to formulate
    replies, I would like to think that all fishos enjoy some level
    of affinity with the environment, however we can not allow this
    government to pander to the whim of every extreme environmental
    group that just happens along.

    Mr Fooks esq (deserves a title as he is far more literate than I)
    states that we are two years behind the extremists, and I would
    suggest that this is at bare minimum.

    Reel Nauti, you mention that we may not be hearing the full story
    from Desley Boyle, re these pending closures, as the
    review is not due to start until 2007,
    While 2007 may be the official start, in the days following
    the closures of the GBR, I spoke to the Member for
    BURNETT, Mr Rob Messenger (opposition) who stated
    that the GBR closures were nothing to what the state
    government was intending. I would suggest that this
    indicates that the government has been working towards
    this end for some considerable time.

    RobYoung, You mention that we have improved freshwater fishing
    to look forward to. Yes but I do recall hearing an interview
    or statement from a group of marine biologists, (About 12mnths
    ago) in which it was stated that their scientific research
    into the GBR was completed or drawing to a close, and they
    were looking forward to extending their expertise into the
    freshwater fisheries, Now I wonder why???

    I am also of the belief that marine biologists etc are operating
    in the Carpentaria Gulf attempting to locate uncharted
    reefs, but Im almost certain this is out of the goodness of
    their hearts, so the prawn trawlers dont run aground.

    cheers Mick

  13. #28

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    Why not force the pro fishos to use EXACTLY the same methods and equipment that the recreational fishos have to use, when in the bay & rivers.

    What's good for the Goose..........

    Can u see the river trawler blokes standing on the front deck throwing cast nets. #

    They can still sell what they catch. Can't complain about that!

    Maybe a yearly recreational fishing license fee for all waters. As long as the fees are used for buying back commercial fishing licenses, because the pros can't afford to use normal methods for commercial catches.

    I'd be willing to pay.

    Might be a big boost for aquaculture.

    I don't think self-regulation works. Take a look at the banks, oil industry, fishos catching species with no bag limits etc.

    There does need to be a lot more enforcement of catch and size limits - for both amateur and pro alike.
    What about volunteer fisheries inspectors (VFI) - just like volunteer marine rescue.
    Both organisations could get some funding from fishing licence fees.

    Maybe enact legislation to empower the VMR guys and girls to enforce fisheries/boating laws.

    That way, the VMR/VFI boats would be out on the water, where the fishos are. They would then be on the scene, when and if a tow job or rescue mission occurs. Quicker response times, and an educational role peformed at the same time.

    I don't know...... I'm just ranting.

    But I do think that the bay needs to get a rest from the heavy level of fishing that it currently gets.



  14. #29

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    Labor will walk in..... that is not a negative towards the TFP ,just reality.

    if I can give(s) a 'local' vote to the TFP........great.
    My fed vote(s) is in the bag ,happy to


    with moreton Bay , i spose it will "boil-down" to terminology of what "shafting" is proposed ,intended,and ear-marked

    My point , is too make sure sh!t like a striped-yellow zone, 1 hook ,1 rod BS is just that, BS.

    G'tees of multi-purpose use ,need to be gleaned from the libs/nats/labs to in effect "dilute" the TFP vote , even to the extent(jmo) of 50/50 preferences...or 100/0 and 0/100 in a few "key" areas ,just to beat the drum for RecFishos...

    Decipher my mumble , and "do the right thing" !!

  15. #30

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    Reel Nauti (Dave) Raises some valid arguments which I have been a little to quick to be dismissive of in the past - sorry Dave!

    From the TFPQ point of view they must first achieve legitimacy as a party.. Oh yes I know they are registered as a party and so you can vote for them - but real legitimacy comes from having a presence in parliament - any parliament - it doesnt matter that much. Think about the greens - how many seats do they hold in the QLD parliament? - none, NSW - none, VIC, none, NT, none, WA none, Federally (Lower House) none. However at the senate level (upper house) they have 4.

    Having achieved a modicum of success at the senate level has given the greens legitimacy even at the State level where they have never had any success in any seat in any state - ever. so why would Labor support them?

    I dont really know..... - but if you look at their policies - they have a similar social agenda (social justice issues etc.) to labor so have effectually fractured labors vote in the more socialist/green constituency. So it makes sense for Labor to court back these lost votes.

    The way I see it - if TFPQ can win a few votes in any state election and gradually gather increasing support - perhaps they can then parley that into legitimacy through a senate seat (if not won before hand in any state seat). A senate seat will provide the resources the FP need to ensure they stay around long enough to have the desired effect (influence) over a sustained period.

    Its not really a matter of FP chasing the majors to do preference swaps with - the majors will chase them. With legitimacy comes influence and I think that is what the FP is after - its not the preference swap which yields the power - its the big stick that TFPQ can carry around after they have achieved legitimacy - every time the Govt wants something from them - they wave the stick... its called politics - and happens all year round - not just at election time.

    This is a good discussion Dave (and others) there isnt enough people who really understand the political process and how it works so questions such as yours - even playing the devils advocate should be encouraged. I have certainly learned from this board - and I hope that others have got some small thing out of my contributions.

    Thanks,

    Adam

    p.s. I'm not a FP member... yet... but after these discussions will certainly be joining.


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