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Thread: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

  1. #181

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    Funnily enough Brendan, your opinion of a greenie, makes most of us greenies.....just a pity it is a dirty word these days.

    If you want a greenies definition of a greenie you should visit the PETA web site and check out the "fishing hurts" section. The "pointy end" of the green movement actually opposes catch and release, as a pointless exercise in animal crulety for the pleasure or enjoyment of an individual.

    The only (in their eyes) justification for fishing is food...............so....how green are you really??

    I guess, like the rest of us, you care about the environment too, look after it and genuinely want to see it managed both for now and the future.

    All we can say is ...here, here...you won't get an auguments on this site, about this issue.

    KC

  2. #182

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    Quote Originally Posted by kc
    your opinion of a greenie, makes most of us greenies.....just a pity it is a dirty word these days.

    I guess, like the rest of us, you care about the environment too, look after it and genuinely want to see it managed both for now and the future.

    KC
    Yes KC, that was my point. We, on this site, preach sustainability and care for what we want to enjoy and in that way we are Greenies. A further point I wanted to make is that Black and White opinions and an Us against "Them" does not seem to take the debate forward and does not present the recreational fishing position with credibility. On the face of it, I do not support large closures/exclusion zones in the Bay. But what is the detail? And even more importantly, how does any closure fit into an integrated management plan? I see the destruction of mangroves and urban development to the water's edge as contributing to Bay problems. I would ultimately prefer to be involved in designing a management plan for the Bay rather than being positioned alongside extremist naysayers. My argument is that an Us against Them strategy always results in a winner and a loser. Continued access to the bay and a sustainable resource is too valuable to me to risk being on the losing side.

    And PETA - extreme views mostly based on emotion and distorted logic don't move me. I have actively countered their point of view in my house by discussing the PETA position with kids and grandkids. It did not take long for the kids to see through the crap and equally acknowledge a need to treat animals (including fish) with respect.

    Brenden

  3. #183

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    Brenden, I cant talk for KC... But I think he might tend to agree with you - I know I do! Us verses them isnt the optimum solution. However we can only work with the cards we have been dealt, at this point in time it has to be us verses them, we are in election mode - everyone is in it for themselves... sounds rude but thats the harsh reality.

    TFPQ is in it to save and secure our right to fish, The greenies and greens have their own agenda which may include veganism for the whole planet (at least going by the way they are headed) Libs and Lab?? Dont get me started!! There isn't one truly altruistic group out there - if there was/is then they wouldn't be contesting an election.

    These are the cards we currently have - if we are able to really send Beattie a message - then we may be invited to the bargaining table IF/When this occurs we can address a wholistic management plan. But for now we must highlight the differences to provide the voters choice.

    Right now we are fighting to have a place at that table and they dont want to give us one without a fight - they are doing everything they can to shut us out so that we have no say - so that our voice wont be heard on election day.

    Right now there has to be winner and losers...Thats the nature of elections, if you look at the numbers come election night - we may look like we've lost - but if the numbers are large enough (even if we dont win) then we can leverage the short term loss into long term gain.

    Alas in politics the optimal solution may not to have win/win, but lose/lose, we may have to give some concessions which we will not like - in order that the other side do not get all the things they want. (I'm not talking for the powers that be here... its all just supposition). In short in order to win, we may have to lose a little - its the amount we lose or are willing to lose thats the question. But if we dont make an oppositional stand now - then we are losers by default.

    Again, just my personal thoughts on the situation.

    Adam


  4. #184

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    The 3rd Rally night in Bundy & attended finally by Team Beattie Candidates was a RIP (short for REST IN PEACE) GOOD FISHING BUDDIES.

    Neither ALP Candidate for either Bundaberg or Burnett gave a comittment to take on board our cause nor bring to the attention of the overlords in Brisbane the socially unjust zoning processes that Bundaberg Region has been subjected to, or that incorrect GPS points have been posted . >
    In fact a simple yes or no response was even TOOOOOOOOOOOO HARD TO ELICIT.

    A threefold increase in Great Sandy Straits Marine Park has taken place under caretaker Government (so much for previously accepted Conventions for Caretaker Governments) - YES THREEFOLD

    BEWARE BRISSIE ........ MORETON BAY IS NO DOUBT NEXT ON THEIR AGENDA.


    To our fishing compatriots down BRISSIE way fight hard, fight loud and make your Votes mean something this weekend.

    Ministerial Forums with the Minister for the Environment via your local state members may well be the next avenue to get consultation if the pollsters are correct team Beattie will romp in the Election.

    They may try to IGNORE US NOW, BUT LIKE A FESTERING SORE WE WILL BE NOT IGNORED LONGTERM !!!! WE FISH WE VOTE AND WE DEMAND SOCIALLY ACCEPTABLE SCIENTIFICALLY BASED DECISIONS WITH MEANINGFUL LOCAL CONSULTATION NOT BACKDOOR DEALS WITH ENVIRONMENTAL ZEALOTS.

  5. #185

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    Yes fishingmaddad, I have to agree with you in that the meet was nothing short of a big brush off by all the Labor candidates, being told that we are making a fuss over two small areas that have been closed and saying nothing about the fact that not even a Billy Goat can access any of the areas left open. Go to Elliott Heads she said, yer with everyone else.

    What was with that Greenie screaming at Rob Messenger the Nationals member for Burnett about preferences? He said , what deal between the Greens and Labor I am a member of the Greens and I don't know of any deals. Maybe he missed his last newsletter!!

    They covered other issues such as health and you will be happy to know that Labor will fix that hmm...........didn't they cause it?

  6. #186

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adamy
    Right now there has to be winner and losers...Thats the nature of elections, if you look at the numbers come election night - we may look like we've lost - but if the numbers are large enough (even if we dont win) then we can leverage the short term loss into long term gain.
    Adam,

    Totally agree - elections have obvious winners and losers. It is the numbers on the night that will establish (objectively) the size of the power base collectively represented by the Fishing party.

    My comment on Us and Them is more aimed at what happens next. My reading of the posts on this site suggests "we" are every bit as biased as the other side (I won't use the term Greenie for previously stated reasons); too much hearsay and some of the conspiracy theories the border on the silly. Extreme positions will not be able the offer credible input to a science based argument but may have power in a bargining situation. I'm not sure that power based bargining will lead to an optimal, sustainalble fishery in the bay.

    Brenden

  7. #187

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    Chaz, haven't read too many comments supporting (educated or layman)
    MORETON Bay Closures , is there a chat-forum , where they do?



    So WHO is attempting to alienate the MAJORITY , and lock-up what doesn't need to be locked-up

  8. #188

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    kc

    "Reef CRC (Goggins & Green et al).........Since these tiny fish can swim at high speeds for long periods they can escape the ocean currents and stay close to where they were born"

    the world fish indicates that they are talking about the fish after metamorphesis, before this stage they are referred to as larvae. so what if they can swim fast once they reach the fry stage, the larvae stage lasts for a number of weeks (3-4 for species i am fimiliar with)

    "The studies of tagged Coral Trout on Sudbury reef confirm the earlier research that Coral Trout are domercial. They are born, grow, live and die within the same reef. They do not "spill-over", the Reef CRC technical report 52. Also called the ELF study (Effects of Line Fishing) also confirms this hypothosis."

    i dont disagree with the fact that adult coral trout may live most of their lives in the same reef, but tagging studies only offer an indication of movements of the fish from a certain size (the size they are tagged at) and offers no indication of the movements of larvae and fry. so no, tagging studies cannot confirm that coral trout are born, grow, live and die within the same reef as you have stated.

    also coral trout do not occour in the bay so regardless of wether larvae or fish move locations or not this means nothing as i was referring to the majority or species in the bay. eg bream are do not live their lives in the same area.

    cheers
    mick

  9. #189

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    Your right mick,we don't know. We do know that science is often "adjusted" to suit the needs of the governing body. Plenty of cases like that. The issue with the study on trout movements (Goggins and Green) is that the resraerch says one thing, then the published words by the GBRMPA twist it to say something completely different. I personally know not wether trout larvae drift or not. I have read that they don't but really don't know. We also don't know nearly enough about bream/whiting etc in the bay. We are being told it is the best snapper season for years. anecdotal I know but still, rec fishers are catching more snapper.

    I guess my point is that scientists are becoming a bit like professional witnesses in a court case....for sale to the highest bidder. Who do we trust??

    In regards trout I think enough information is available to accurate describe this species as well studied and understood. This includes a belief that they are domercile from larvae to adult.

    Not half enough is known about other species and the science should preceed closures. IMO.

    The "managers" continue to use the phrase "precautionary principle" in regards marine park management......this term used to have another name...Common Sense...and bugger all of this is shown by them these days.

    Anyhow. Tommorrow the voters will speak and winners are grinner and losers can please themselves...our aim is to outpoll the greens and if we do...after just 2 1/2 years in existance...the balance will shift significantly back towards "common sense".

    KC

  10. #190

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    Anyhow. Tommorrow the voters will speak and winners are grinner and losers can please themselves...our aim is to outpoll the greens and if we do...after just 2 1/2 years in existance...the balance will shift significantly back towards "common sense".

    KC
    And if you don't KC...don't give up.

    WHY....BEE-cause you now have thirteen(13) greenie-preferenced electorates to-do ,in 2010......IF NECESSARY

    p.s. MAGNUMS to all who "tried" , congratulations to all , who supported your "lifestyle" approach

    Kind Regards
    Gazza

  11. #191

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    Quote Originally Posted by Batters_QLD
    also coral trout do not occour in the bay so regardless of wether larvae or fish move locations or not this means nothing

    cheers
    mick
    Sorry Mick.... You're wrong Coral Trout do exist in the Bay - they are often caught around Peel as a bycatch. Where did they come from? Well they didn’t drift from the GBR or from any other spillover effect.

    I'm no scientist but I watch David attenborough and the world around us and I've seen Finding Nemo 127 times So I know there is this great ocean current thingy that sweeps down the East Coast of Australia and if the current thingy carrying larve to other areas was real - then there would be coral trout in Sydney Harbour and there isnt... well there is, but only in Doyles Resturant .... end of jokes

    The reason they are coming back in some size and numbers is because of the cessation of coral dredging in the bay. Since this has stopped the coral is beginning to rejuvenate which has helped improve the fishing in the bay immeasurably. Not just with coral trout either but also snapper, grinners, pike and whatever else eats the little bait fishies that hang around the coral

    Now the lefty greenie types wouldn’t know about this - but the fishos who regularly fish the bay know how good it's getting - It goes to show that you don’t have to lock out rec fishos to improve fishing in the bay - you just have to improve the environment where the fish live - clean up industrial run off, improve water quality etc. and the fish will come back. It has very little to do with the fishing pressure from rec fishos... otherwise there would be a decrease in fish stocks - not an increase as is being demonstrated by increased catch rates and sizes as is currently happening in the Bay.

    What the greenies have to do is come clean and admit that their agenda has very little to do with fish stocks and much more to do with converting the rest of the population into veganisim (see fishing hurts.com). It’s more of a religion than science - just using science to back up their rabid beliefs.


  12. #192

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    Not that this post needs it but though id throw my opinion in. I would not say i was a grennie slightly left wing maybe but i compltely understand the nefative feedback by dependant industries on the fishery I have an economics and politics back grounds so i know a bit about the importance of local economies. However, having said that i believe something needs to be done with our fisheries it is unsustainable practice to continue to exploit our fisheries the way we do. Im not saying close it down no fishing ever. But i do believe in protecting our fisheries through size limits and strict and enforced bag limits on our fish. I also think that the Qld government should imploy a policy to limit the amount of commercial fishing licences granted for the Moreton Bay fishery or even use a buy back and compensation scheme. Furthermore, i think that instead of closing huge portions of the bay there should be a number of protected zones that cover a range of different areas such as the closure of a river system for 5 years and then shift to a closure of an other river system. About a year ago i was chatting with a charter operator who believed that by doing this the protected nursery area would feed the bay area and help replenish fish stocks as each system has a natural rate of inhabitance before fish will move out of that river or structure and thus help feed the rest of the system. Finally, i think that this is going to be an ongoing issue that will require a number of stakeholders to work together of course there will be winneres and losers bu the main aim in the end is to see sustainable fisheries not only now but into the future.

  13. #193

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    hi all,
    trying to do a bit of personal research to get my head around what body of evidence rezoning and mpa's (marine protected ares) etc will be based on. i wonder how impartial the "research" will be. an example is the sponsor of the following article.

    http://www.premiers.qld.gov.au/.../3...Aug%202006.doc

    i think our bay will look very different after the re-zoning, but will the whole community be better off??

    can't find any specific studies on the bay relating to rotational closures.

    interesting the dpi&f in response to a recent article related to northern hemisphere fisheries (see thread below) said that our stocks aren't under threat of collapse, due to already successful fisheries management . would it be safe then to suppose that the "precautionary principle" for mpa's is not an argument in relation to the bay?

    cheers
    dazza

  14. #194

    Re: Moreton Bay Closures - what's happening?

    I'm born and bred in Moreton Bay. My dad grew up here and so did my dad's dad. I definately don't want to see the bay locked up but I am worried about the amount of fish left. My grandad and even my dad talk about how much easier it was to catch a fish then it is today. Why is protecting certain habitats such an issue? My understanding of marine parks is that we still have access to most of the bay and then fish will spill over from the protected areas to where we fish. To me this means more fish and therefore more fishing How can we argue with that?

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