Lets talk Leaders

[NAGG]

A mix of sunline fc rock and daiwa j thread

I meant main line

[steve099]

I did see a couple of Salt Strongs videos ...... it was quite interesting but.
Personally I dont use FC leader for abrasion resistance - I'm more about the refractive index .

I like the FC Rock ......which I've been using for over a decade - certainly no reason to switch though sometimes it can be difficult to buy (sold out) . Daiwa J thread is ok too .... marginal difference

Chris

apart from the obvious refractive index of FC, i thought the logic was FC has stretch where as the braid does not. thus we get a balance of the best of both worlds when running braid , coupled with abrasive protection from sneaky fish trying to get off by rubbing up against structure.

please correct me if I am wrong, I am very new to the fishing and eager to learn as much as I can

I started with cheap FC, rookie mistake , moved to Shimano then discovered FC rock and the difference in tying knots with FC rock is just delightful for me. I use slim beauty knots for lighter setups and now starting to use FG on heavier lines as the SB does not work well with heavier setups over 20lb for me anyway.

[NAGG]

apart from the obvious refractive index of FC, i thought the logic was FC has stretch where as the braid does not. thus we get a balance of the best of both worlds when running braid , coupled with abrasive protection from sneaky fish trying to get off by rubbing up against structure.

please correct me if I am wrong, I am very new to the fishing and eager to learn as much as I can

I started with cheap FC, rookie mistake , moved to Shimano then discovered FC rock and the difference in tying knots with FC rock is just delightful for me. I use slim beauty knots for lighter setups and now starting to use FG on heavier lines as the SB does not work well with heavier setups over 20lb for me anyway.

Yes - that is correct ..... braid does have little stretch & yes FC has some stretch ( not as much as mono though)
FC is also denser & sinks ..... it aids in many lure fishing applications .

So where we see FC leader fail against Mono leader for abrasion - It doesn't deter me because

FC leader has more abrasion resistance than braid
FC leader sinks - better for most lure fishing
FC leader has a lower RI than mono leader
FC leader has a smaller diameter than mono leader of the same breaking strain
FC leader has less stretch than Mono leader

Chris

[Dignity]

Yes - that is correct ..... braid does have little stretch & yes FC has some stretch ( not as much as mono though)
FC is also denser & sinks ..... it aids in many lure fishing applications .

So where we see FC leader fail against Mono leader for abrasion - It doesn't deter me because

FC leader has more abrasion resistance than braid
FC leader sinks - better for most lure fishing
FC leader has a lower RI than mono leader
FC leader has a smaller diameter than mono leader of the same breaking strain
FC leader has less stretch than Mono leader

Chris

I must be buying the wrong FC as apart from the $5 range at KMart all my FC leader is definitely thicker than equivalent mono, or have I missed something.

[stevej]

1699320[/URL]]I meant main line

suffix 832 for the heavy stuff

J braid or nitlon for the light stuff

[Volvo]

Most my leader material is purchased from BCF when on special though do use a lot of Mono line as previousely mentioned .
Though Chriss did write some helpfull info in his reply which has been stored in the old weary used up Noggin ..

[NAGG]

I must be buying the wrong FC as apart from the $5 range at KMart all my FC leader is definitely thicker than equivalent mono, or have I missed something.

You missed something brother

From some brands that I've used over the years

30lb Ande Clear mono @ 0.55mm
30lb Black magic supple @ 0.55mm
30lb Black magic tough trace @ 0.5mm
30lb Shimano Tiagra @ 0.47mm
30lb Jinkai @ 0.48mm
30lb Daiwa Sparten @ 0.48mm
30lb Platypus hard armour @ 0.45mm

Vs

30lb FC Rock @ 0.435mm
30lb J thread FC @ 0.455mm
30lb Yamatoyo @ 0.47mm
30lb Seaguar premier @ 0.47mm
30lb Sunline System @ 0.435mm
30lb Seaguar gold label @ 0.435mm

50lb

50lb Ande Clear @ 0.7mm
50lb Platypus hard armour @ 0.6mm
50lb Black magic supple @ 0.65mm

Vs

50lb FC Rock @ 0.57mm
30lb Seaguar gold label @ 0.57mm


I guess this shows you get what you pay for

Chris

[Dignity]

You missed something brother

From some brands that I've used over the years

30lb Ande Clear mono @ 0.55mm
30lb Black magic supple @ 0.55mm
30lb Black magic tough trace @ 0.5mm
30lb Shimano Tiagra @ 0.47mm
30lb Jinkai @ 0.48mm
30lb Daiwa Sparten @ 0.48mm
30lb Platypus hard armour @ 0.45mm

Vs

30lb FC Rock @ 0.435mm
30lb J thread FC @ 0.455mm
30lb Yamatoyo @ 0.47mm
30lb Seaguar premier @ 0.47mm
30lb Sunline System @ 0.435mm
30lb Seaguar gold label @ 0.435mm

50lb

50lb Ande Clear @ 0.7mm
50lb Platypus hard armour @ 0.6mm
50lb Black magic supple @ 0.65mm

Vs

50lb FC Rock @ 0.57mm
30lb Seaguar gold label @ 0.57mm


I guess this shows you get what you pay for

Chris

Ok, I suspect there must be mono leaders, I was talking about straight mono to which I have slowly been making a return to instead of FC. Granted most of my fishing is reef fishing from 25m to 400m. In the deep stuff, we use FC atm but I dont know why we do it. Up to 100m I've been slowly using plain old mono, found it less prone to twisting line etc tying knots are easier, haven't found any change in catches and in the last 2 years have virtually depleted my stock of FC.
For my inshore fishing I use 8lb mono leader for flathead with 6lb braid. I used to use Cortlan 6lb braid but can't get it anymore since the pandemic. I've been trying Berkleys 9 strand braid in 6lb lately, great but too soft, as soon as a bit of a breeze gets up it balloons out.
Fishing is a constant challenge which is good for the brain they tell me.

[NAGG]

Ok, I suspect there must be mono leaders, I was talking about straight mono to which I have slowly been making a return to instead of FC. Granted most of my fishing is reef fishing from 25m to 400m. In the deep stuff, we use FC atm but I dont know why we do it. Up to 100m I've been slowly using plain old mono, found it less prone to twisting line etc tying knots are easier, haven't found any change in catches and in the last 2 years have virtually depleted my stock of FC.
For my inshore fishing I use 8lb mono leader for flathead with 6lb braid. I used to use Cortlan 6lb braid but can't get it anymore since the pandemic. I've been trying Berkleys 9 strand braid in 6lb lately, great but too soft, as soon as a bit of a breeze gets up it balloons out.
Fishing is a constant challenge which is good for the brain they tell me.

Ahhh I see

Back to what I said a few posts back ....... line is not leader

What is done during production to mono line to make it supple - cast well , have little memory & stretch ........ goes against what most people want from a leader material

Leader material will pretty well always be tougher & have less stretch than mono line .

Oh & btw ..... a quick check of some of the monofilament lines ..... they seem to be thicker than FC leader (mono's by Maxima , Ande , Trilene , Platypus &, Schneider )

As for deeper reef fishing ...... yes I would be using the Schneider mono line - it's tough as old boots & the deeper you go there is less effect / benefit of using Fluorocarbon .

Chris

[Volvo]

You missed something brother

From some brands that I've used over the years

30lb Ande Clear mono @ 0.55mm
30lb Black magic supple @ 0.55mm
30lb Black magic tough trace @ 0.5mm
30lb Shimano Tiagra @ 0.47mm
30lb Jinkai @ 0.48mm
30lb Daiwa Sparten @ 0.48mm
30lb Platypus hard armour @ 0.45mm

Vs

30lb FC Rock @ 0.435mm
30lb J thread FC @ 0.455mm
30lb Yamatoyo @ 0.47mm
30lb Seaguar premier @ 0.47mm
30lb Sunline System @ 0.435mm
30lb Seaguar gold label @ 0.435mm

50lb

50lb Ande Clear @ 0.7mm
50lb Platypus hard armour @ 0.6mm
50lb Black magic supple @ 0.65mm

Vs

50lb FC Rock @ 0.57mm
30lb Seaguar gold label @ 0.57mm


I guess this shows you get what you pay for

Chris

Cost of each would be interesting also ??..Like the old saying goes "Hard to teach an old Dog new tricks " so stay with what i know works for me Chris.
If it aint broke dont fix it and what i use works for me for what i chase from Estuary to offshore .
Mind you if i was into hardcore Sportsfishing like Marlin etc i would want to use the best of the Best so each has its use and advantage ey.
Like Some of the New Fancy reels out on the Market , not that i would like to or couldnt afford to spend that much on a Reel like the new Penn Authority for instance but with so many Reels allready sitting idle i sometimes think it would be a waste or money could be spent better eslewhere ??..
So much change and will be more to come Competing for the Market with better and stronger internals and dare say lifespan should be far longer depending how one looks after their gear ey .
Get so close to sometimes thinkin "Darn !!" will buy that Reel then i look into my Reel collection and spy a Daiwa Millionaire for instance 40 odd year old sitting there wishing for its owner to take it out for a day or two out tackle with a Fish and still as new as the day it was purchased lol..
So look at spending the $$ on the Boat in some way or other , More likely fuel now way prices are lol. New Sounder when and if this one packs it in as there surely are some nice units out there ide like sitting in front of me i could drool over ..
Or just spend it on the Grandkids ..

[NAGG]

Cost of each would be interesting also ??..Like the old saying goes "Hard to teach an old Dog new tricks " so stay with what i know works for me Chris.
If it aint broke dont fix it and what i use works for me for what i chase from Estuary to offshore .
Mind you if i was into hardcore Sportsfishing like Marlin etc i would want to use the best of the Best so each has its use and advantage ey.
Like Some of the New Fancy reels out on the Market , not that i would like to or couldnt afford to spend that much on a Reel like the new Penn Authority for instance but with so many Reels allready sitting idle i sometimes think it would be a waste or money could be spent better eslewhere ??..
So much change and will be more to come Competing for the Market with better and stronger internals and dare say lifespan should be far longer depending how one looks after their gear ey .
Get so close to sometimes thinkin "Darn !!" will buy that Reel then i look into my Reel collection and spy a Daiwa Millionaire for instance 40 odd year old sitting there wishing for its owner to take it out for a day or two out tackle with a Fish and still as new as the day it was purchased lol..
So look at spending the $$ on the Boat in some way or other , More likely fuel now way prices are lol. New Sounder when and if this one packs it in as there surely are some nice units out there ide like sitting in front of me i could drool over ..
Or just spend it on the Grandkids ..

& as I said earlier - this is a discussion that's been had around a campfire for decades & will probably be discussed for many years to come .

for me - I put a lot of time & effort into my bream & barra fishing ...... shallow water lure fishing for bream. - specially in clear water had me pulling my hair out (look at me today ) .... there wasn't much I didn't try .
Ditto for my Barra fishing where I put a lot of time & effort into what leader worked the best under what conditions ......
I've had involvement with a line manufacturer & sold raw materials to them ...... so I understand the difference .

Is leader material some kind of way for the manufacturer to make more money ....... with out a doubt - but it does cost more to make leader (process & additives - particularly PDVF)

I will always employ a leader material of some kind ...... & with the exception of schneider klear where I want the higher diameter .... it will not be monofilament line .

Now I read what you have written above & I totally get what you are saying . But If it wasn't about cost would you still have the same opinion ? . ..... leader is not something that is easily supported or disproved - heck my barra experiences attest to that. But hey I could probably throw on 100lb (0.8mm) Varivas FC leader on & improve my results ........ but at a cost . Like you , I haven't needed to go there (IMO)

Fishing always throws up the cost vs benefit thing ....... Jarvis Walker red suicide hooks vs Mustad Big red vs BKK octopus

Chris

[NAGG]

Line will always be the cheapest option ....... buy a 300m spool of Schneider for $20 or spend the same coin (plus a little more) on 50m of FC Rock - which is the best option ?

horses for courses

Chris

[Volvo]

And an argument that will still go on fer yonks Chris . Tis what it is from a users/buyers perspective i guess and not that you are wrong in what you say either..

[NAGG]

And an argument that will still go on fer yonks Chris . Tis what it is from a users/buyers perspective i guess and not that you are wrong in what you say either..

Absolutely ........ & if it's working for you & you have no concerns - Hey

Who knows - I might start tying snapper leaders with monofilament line & see how I go .

Chris