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Thread: Skimming through last 4 weeks 3 facebook groups

  1. #31

    Re: Skimming through last 4 weeks 3 facebook groups

    Yeah i do understand alot of peppleonly catch afew fish and half the time thsts me and my mates but there are days where we catch 100 king fish between 4 of us and all of them go back

    My worry there are more and more people taking 20-30 fish, itslegal but isit relly morally right, i know some of you are feeding family and friends thats ok but i just cant help but think how many people actually eat all that seafood

    I have no idea where the seafood comes from that i rarely eat if that matters but its 1 fish 1 meal for than to be eatin, not 2 blokes hauling 30 fish that they may eat in the future

    I hear alot of guys say we take only what we are going to eat im cool with that and respect that, i think we have all been at the cleaning tables and seen a bloke or two with a whole garbo filled with fish imo its crazy

    We have a lake 35kms up stream that has copped a absolute floggin since the 1990's people go there and take 3x 20 litre buckets filled with mullet ya know its people like this decamating our wild fish stock

  2. #32

    Re: Skimming through last 4 weeks 3 facebook groups

    Quote Originally Posted by gazza2006au View Post
    Yeah i do understand alot of peppleonly catch afew fish and half the time thsts me and my mates but there are days where we catch 100 king fish between 4 of us and all of them go back

    My worry there are more and more people taking 20-30 fish, itslegal but isit relly morally right, i know some of you are feeding family and friends thats ok but i just cant help but think how many people actually eat all that seafood

    I have no idea where the seafood comes from that i rarely eat if that matters but its 1 fish 1 meal for than to be eatin, not 2 blokes hauling 30 fish that they may eat in the future

    I hear alot of guys say we take only what we are going to eat im cool with that and respect that, i think we have all been at the cleaning tables and seen a bloke or two with a whole garbo filled with fish imo its crazy
    So catching 100 king fish, stressing them out out, then releasing is considered morally right. I'm not sure, I know C&R is considered a sport and sustainable but more and more evidence is coming to light that these stressed fish may not survive as much as we think. Personally I gave up throwing big barra a long time ago as got used to seeing crocs walk out onto the sand bank soon after throw back with a big barra in their jaws. Now I have no proof it is the one we threw back, just too many coincidences and I don't go out specifically to C&R as I don't believe in stressing an animal/fish purely for the purpose of enjoyment, I treat all fish caught with utmost respect, I even have a special rod for offshore work to release any unrequired fish down to the depths they were caught at as quickly as possible even though it may take time away from a hot bite.

    I think Gazza you should care where your 1 fish for your meal comes from because in all probability 10 other undersized or undesirable fish possibly died in the process of catching that 1 fish.

    Also go back a few posts and reread Disorderly's post and others about people catching their limit. There will always be a very small minority that are pure number crunchers but they are getting fewer and fewer.

    Cheers

  3. #33
    Ausfish Silver Member Ducksnutz's Avatar
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    Re: Skimming through last 4 weeks 3 facebook groups

    100 Kingies Gazza? Really? Strewth! I would have moved on after.... I don’t know maybe the 5th? Not to sound negative, but wow.... just wow. Peace out.
    Matilda

  4. #34
    Ausfish Addict disorderly's Avatar
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    Re: Skimming through last 4 weeks 3 facebook groups

    100 Kingies..!!..

    Holy moly..

  5. #35

    Re: Skimming through last 4 weeks 3 facebook groups

    "Shootin from the hip"
    Yep the master has done it again.

  6. #36

    Re: Skimming through last 4 weeks 3 facebook groups

    Catch and release has its place, and one things certain, a released fish has a lot better chance of survival than one in the esky! We all have our own agenda when we fish, what's right for me, might piss someone else off.

  7. #37

    Re: Skimming through last 4 weeks 3 facebook groups

    What about the greedy people, and yes there are greedy ones, I’ve seen them.

    They go fishing with a mate, stay out all day and do their best to bag out on as many species as they can, and this is while they have crab pots sitting while they are out.

    I’ve seen blokes come in and brag about ‘what a great day’ and they then spend a couple of hours cleaning 30, 40, 50 fish. These are the people that hurt fishing stocks.

    Perhaps they should look at a reasonable possession number, no matter what species


    Sent from my iPad using Ausfish forums

  8. #38

    Re: Skimming through last 4 weeks 3 facebook groups

    Quote Originally Posted by Dignity View Post
    So catching 100 king fish, stressing them out out, then releasing is considered morally right. I'm not sure, I know C&R is considered a sport and sustainable but more and more evidence is coming to light that these stressed fish may not survive as much as we think. Personally I gave up throwing big barra a long time ago as got used to seeing crocs walk out onto the sand bank soon after throw back with a big barra in their jaws. Now I have no proof it is the one we threw back, just too many coincidences and I don't go out specifically to C&R as I don't believe in stressing an animal/fish purely for the purpose of enjoyment, I treat all fish caught with utmost respect, I even have a special rod for offshore work to release any unrequired fish down to the depths they were caught at as quickly as possible even though it may take time away from a hot bite.

    I think Gazza you should care where your 1 fish for your meal comes from because in all probability 10 other undersized or undesirable fish possibly died in the process of catching that 1 fish.

    Also go back a few posts and reread Disorderly's post and others about people catching their limit. There will always be a very small minority that are pure number crunchers but they are getting fewer and fewer.

    Cheers
    Hey Digs i dont b elieve it stresses them i have lost a fair few king fish on 6-8lb line and my mates on the same boat have caught the same fish an hour later with my hook in its mouth

  9. #39

    Re: Skimming through last 4 weeks 3 facebook groups

    If someone wants to catch their bag limit as the law allows, then they're entitled to do it.

    If somebody wants to think that those legal bag limits are too high then they're entitled to have that point of view too.

    Just respect that. We don't want to be seen as attempting to dissuade people from speaking their mind, do we.

    Mostly, the limits set by law are a compromise. The regulating authority is quite a way "behind the action" with the information it uses to set those limits (in Qld anyway). Commercial catches because of the time delay in recording, submitting and assessing

    returns (that's despite requirements of timely submission) and recreational fishing fishing the the only method is by irregular boat ramp surveys which take even more time to collate.

    Part of the "new deal" in managing Qld fisheries is to turn away from boat ramp inspections by enforcement officers operating under the guise of safety inspections ( a task that belongs to Maritime Safety Qld - MSQ which is part of the Qld Dept of

    Transport). Fisheries officers in Qld now operate on intelligence based information via by complaint, assessment of trends and "proper investigation.

    Safety inspections on water and at ramps were dropped down their priority tasking duties following the M-Rag review a a couple of years ago. The review team was swamped with complaints of Qld Fisheries cherry-picking offences to please the Minister of

    the day by demonstrating very high compliance rates. Those compliance rates were supposed to show the Minister what a good job Fisheries Qld was doing in enforcing the fisheries laws.

    My response was "If the compliance rates were so high (over 90%), then why is Fisheries wasting resources on something that isn't a problem? Its MSQ's job anyway when there's more serious fisheries stuff not being looked at".

    Is Fisheries getting better at their job? Not yet I believe as Fisheries has an inbuilt culture of not accepting change.

    One major step forward though, is that Fisheries Qld has agreed to issue a complainant with a reference number for the complainant to follow the complaint through. THAT is a major step forward that's brings more confidence to any complainant AND

    ensures more transparency of the Dept (something which they've opposed for years).

    What's been found useful in Qld in the introduction of limits is for the local communities to voluntarily adopt an "unofficial restriction" , practice it and review it after a couple of years.

    So far, that's worked in the mandated restrictions relating to commercial netting on a regional basis (precursors to net free zones).

    In the case of bag and size limits, that's currently being undertaken in the CQ net free zone via the introduction of voluntary code of practice which sets smaller bag limits and bigger size limits for barramundi and king threadfin.

    These bag and size limits are what the community feels should apply here (not Fisheries Qld).

    So far there's about 80 - 90 % fishing community adoption.

    Not all the fishing community has adopted it and likes to operate under Qld Fisheries slightly more generous rules AND that's their right.

    The community doesn't try to impress the code onto everybody or question their right not to.

    Ditto with the fishers who DON'T want to operate under the voluntary code. Live and let live without the angst.

    Qld Fisheries history is that if a restriction that's voluntary appears to be working OK, then Fisheries will formally adopt the restriction IN THAT AREA.

    Its proved to be that way with commercial netting to date.

    CQ is the first place to attempt to deal similarly with bag limits and sizes voluntarily.

    Gazza has a right to his view and has options to pursue to see if his local community agrees.

  10. #40

    Re: Skimming through last 4 weeks 3 facebook groups

    Good discussion guys

    Some of us here ( yes me ) are involved with Fisheries on working groups and stakeholder input for strategies to manage certain fisheries.

    The bottom line is, as eluded to above , is that Qld Fisheries are doing the best they can to achieve a sustainable fishery for all species. Tough gig that one

    If we, as recreational fishers fish within the rules, then we are playing our part. What we don't do, is provide FQ with good data to input and achieve best results.

    I will pick on what Ronje1 said " My response was "If the compliance rates were so high (over 90%), then why is Fisheries wasting resources on something that isn't a problem? Its MSQ's job anyway" when there's more serious stuff not being looked at."

    Off on tangent, and in direct response to that..........." 99.8% of cars driving the M1 do so within the speed limits, yet there are multiple speed cameras and radars along that route "... so why do they target the M1, when it is obvious there is not major issue ? ( Policy seems to be the issue and if the policy of specific areas of interest are not producing revenue, policy changes )

    Sorry to get off track.

    Fishing is such a personal thing we do for a number of reasons. What FQ cannot factor into their data is the " health & well-being " effects of recreational fishing. Roughly, 1 in 4 Queenslanders wet a line at least once a year. Biggest recreational activity by numbers in Qld. We also have an economic impact of over $1billion annually to the Qld economy. But fishing is not about $'s or numbers, it's about lifestyle, heath, social interaction, family time, building friendships, making memories and creating stories. Fishos tell the best stories

    I think if we place importance on what WE do individually as a recreational fisher and not so much on what others do, then maybe our mental heath will be as fit as our physical, friendship and family health.

    Can't wait for better weather to head out and spend some quality time building a better me, helped by some Piscatorial Predators in the esky and onto the family table.

    LP
    Kingfisher Painting Solutions:- Domestic and Commercial.

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  11. #41

    Re: Skimming through last 4 weeks 3 facebook groups

    Off on tangent, and in direct response to that..........." 99.8% of cars driving the M1 do so within the speed limits, yet there are multiple speed cameras and radars along that route "... so why do they target the M1, when it is obvious there is not major issue ? ( Policy seems to be the issue and if the policy of specific areas of interest are not producing revenue, policy changes )

    Revenue isn't the issue for Qld Fisheries Phill as Fisheries Qld (like most other State Govt Departments and local Govts) fines are passed to the SPER (State Penalties Enforcement Register) which is a part of Qld Treasury.

    Currently, SPER is overwhelmed with outstanding unpaid fines anyway (about $500 million at the moment). Treasury's attempts to make more money out of SPER by management fees has backfired and the result is that an offender can rely on about 4 years delay by SPER to resolve an unpaid fine. Justice delayed is justice denied.

    One may ask who is being denied justice? There's no victim as its a victimless crime ( a breach of statute law only).

    The community is a victim. A multi-faced victim.

    In the case of the M1, there's clear evidence (Qld wide) that speeding is a dangerous activity. One of the big 4. The job of the speed cameras and radars is one of deterrence. The aim is to advise motorists that these devices are installed and thus DETER people from those dangerous activities. That advice won't deter everybody but but it will slow down the rest. The reduction in fines shows that deterrence works.

    In the case of Fisheries, deterrence also works in the case of marine safety equipment.

    The real problem is that compliance with marine safety equipment is NOT Fisheries Qld job. Their job is to manage fisheries.

    Its an historical problem lumped onto Fisheries by the Qld Dept of Transport years ago who administer Maritime Safety Qld.

    How did that happen? Because the Qld Dept of Transport couldn't do the safety inspections (they had no boats and Qld Fisheries did). So an amount of money was given to Fisheries every annual budget to do the job on behalf of the Qld Dept of Transport.

    There was a formal Memorandum of Understanding drawn up between the two Depts about how all that was to occur. All very bureaucratic. I have a copy of it if anybody wishes.

    Fisheries jumped at the chance of more budget money to do work for another Govt Dept ignoring the effect on its REAL job (managing fisheries). Foolishly as its turned out with the adverse result of very poor compliance activities brought on by diversion of resources to non-core work. The fishing community in Qld has suffered for years under that arrangement and still does.

    50% of Dept of Fisheries "on-the-water" resources was being diverted to that task.

    To retain the extra budget allocation, Fisheries had to show to the Transport management that they were getting value for money. High compliance rates showed that.

    At the same time as doing safety inspections, they checked catches which also resulted in very high compliance rates which pleased the Fisheries minister of the day.

    The result? Very high compliance rates in the "incidental or less important areas" areas but very little compliance action in the areas where "rape and pillage" was rampant.

    THAT bit about lack of effective compliance in "rape and pillage" was why the M-Rag review was swamped with complaints in its travels around Qld.

    More recently, the Federal Govt has taken over MSQ's role of safety compliance of commercial vessels which is all that MSQ wanted (and was funded) to do.

    So now MSQ is "looking for another job" to maintain its reason for existence.

    Well, how about MSQ starts undertaking its real reason for existing. Maritime safety inspections for Qld vessels especially in the recreational area? THAT isn't Qld Fisheries job (and never was) in the first place.

    NOW Qld Fisheries can concentrate on ITS core reason for existence but has only been delivering a half-hearted service for many years in its chase for funding money.

    Bill Byrne was breath of fresh air as a minister for fisheries. HE kicked started the changes by actually implementing recommendations of Glen Hurry's M-Rag review. Unheard of actual action by a fisheries minister in Qld. I guess an active response is what you get from a ADF Lt Colonel in charge of a paratroop battalion (600 soldiers).

    Bring in fresh ideas and leadership to get Qld Fisheries off its backside and put to work following years of ministerial indifference and incompetence other than preservation of their own highly paid job.

    Regional management of fisheries with a tourism, regional development and quality of life focus is long overdue and only very recently starting to be recognised and addressed.

    Whilst previously operating as a "the Dept knows best" from the top down, now the Dept has to understand that regional management (from the bottom up) is an increasing expectation in ALL communities.

    They are the changes that Qld fishing participants are looking forward to and why local different ideas and points of view (like Gazza's) need to encouraged and not talked down. In Qld anyway.

  12. #42

    Re: Skimming through last 4 weeks 3 facebook groups

    Like i heard some time back each persons perception is their reality of what they believe, one believes bag limits are wrong whilst others believe they are right??.
    Some believe they should be reduced whilst others believe they should be increased , hence the reason for bodies who research and regulate.
    Some of us believe that edible bait should be used to catch their target species allowing for the Fish to at least end up with a feed if it won the battle whilst others believe it is wrong to use Plastics , timber , Metal lures , slugs and whatever which not only has the abillity to pollute the waterways but pollute the Fishes intestines if they cannot be broken down.
    Type of line being used to catch that species ?? Mono or Braid and one doesnt have to be a Phyladelphia Lawyer to see what braid can and does do to Birds and other Sea life if it is not disposed of properly.
    same argument can be used for catch and release whether if caught it should be kept for consumption or released with the argument most released Fish Die anyway??..
    We all have our own beilef in these areas and at days end we each do what we think is right by our values and what is regulated by Government bodies.
    Soooo my point is do what makes you feel good without imposing your perception on others ..
    I personally Fish for the table and if i can whenever possibly will try and catch Fish for MY Children also who have not the $$ to outlay for a Boat or the cost and garbage that may come out of a Supermarket where one does not only know where the Fish came from but how old or what species of fish it is.
    Getting that way with Supermarkets nowadays the last three / four lots of Mince we purchased from our local Supermarket ended up being water more so than mince after cooked and Yes did no good complaining so the argument of purchasing meat instead of Fish does not wash either .
    Could take this debate a tad further but think i might start ranting lol..
    PS evening news programme showed dead Birds near fallen apert with their intestines full of bits of Plastic odds n ends where they couldnt process these bits n pieces through their intestines so makes me wander what pieces of Plastics , Metal , timber and whatever other materials are used in some Lures!!??, might have to go figure ey !!??,..

  13. #43

    Re: Skimming through last 4 weeks 3 facebook groups

    each person's perception is their reality.

    I have a slightly different view about that, Volvo, and it is:
    Perception becomes reality if left unchallenged.

    For example: The perception that somebody deserved a "pile-on" by some for having a different point of view about fishing bag limits would remain UNLESS that group think perception was challenged.

    We all have our own beilef (beliefs) in these areas and at days end we each do what we think is right by our values

    Fair comment.

    .......
    Soooo my point is do what makes you feel good without imposing your perception on others ..

    Agree, Volvo but I wouldn't stop with the word "perception".

    If only it was indeed a single person's perception. But its not.

    Its attempting to impose "group think" on somebody by weight of numbers.

    Some comment is made in an effort at explanation for what is thought to be mistaken reasons by the proponent and that doesn't fall into the category of imposition. Nor should it.

    At times it an be a thin line that separates well intended explanation from imposition of "group think".

    These forums are a societal meeting place for people with points of view about a myriad of subjects and its also a place where mistaken perceptions can explained. But its also a place with pitfalls such as "group think" can become a problem if we all let it.

    Its good to remind ourselves about personal values from discussions like this from time to time.

    Isn't it?

  14. #44

    Re: Skimming through last 4 weeks 3 facebook groups

    Quote Originally Posted by gazza2006au View Post
    Yeah i do understand alot of peppleonly catch afew fish and half the time thsts me and my mates but there are days where we catch 100 king fish between 4 of us and all of them go back

    My worry there are more and more people taking 20-30 fish, itslegal but isit relly morally right, i know some of you are feeding family and friends thats ok but i just cant help but think how many people actually eat all that seafood

    I have no idea where the seafood comes from that i rarely eat if that matters but its 1 fish 1 meal for than to be eatin, not 2 blokes hauling 30 fish that they may eat in the future

    I hear alot of guys say we take only what we are going to eat im cool with that and respect that, i think we have all been at the cleaning tables and seen a bloke or two with a whole garbo filled with fish imo its crazy

    We have a lake 35kms up stream that has copped a absolute floggin since the 1990's people go there and take 3x 20 litre buckets filled with mullet ya know its people like this decamating our wild fish stock
    I think they have the bag limits and quotas the wrong way around.

    We regularly fish for the pot. We don't keep anything we won't eat.

    I think the quotas are the wrong way around. Rec fisher people should have first go at the fish, then local professional fisherman supplying the local market for those that don't or can't fish, anything left of the overall quota can be caught and sent overseas.

  15. #45

    Re: Skimming through last 4 weeks 3 facebook groups

    Quote Originally Posted by gazza2006au View Post
    Yeah i do understand alot of peppleonly catch afew fish and half the time thsts me and my mates but there are days where we catch 100 king fish between 4 of us and all of them go back

    My worry there are more and more people taking 20-30 fish, itslegal but isit relly morally right, i know some of you are feeding family and friends thats ok but i just cant help but think how many people actually eat all that seafood

    I have no idea where the seafood comes from that i rarely eat if that matters but its 1 fish 1 meal for than to be eatin, not 2 blokes hauling 30 fish that they may eat in the future

    I hear alot of guys say we take only what we are going to eat im cool with that and respect that, i think we have all been at the cleaning tables and seen a bloke or two with a whole garbo filled with fish imo its crazy

    We have a lake 35kms up stream that has copped a absolute floggin since the 1990's people go there and take 3x 20 litre buckets filled with mullet ya know its people like this decamating our wild fish stock
    100 Kingies. I’ve been on some hot kingie bites in my time and my arms were gone at about 4 metre plus fish. Yeh I know muppet arms.

    I think your perception regarding the state of the Sydney King Fish/ery is possibly off. While I’ve only fished Sydney Harbour for kings a few times, as I understand it. The Sydney kingie fishery has boomed since they banned the fish traps that targeted them with big Kings of up to 30kg common and in good numbers. While there may be some that bag out on large fish regularly. And some that “rape and pillage” I think those people are getting fewer and far between these days. Especially considering the larger average sizes of them. They really don’t freeze too well like reef fish does.

    I think Snapper down that way could really benefit from changes to size and bag limits. 10@30cm doesn’t leave the best snapper fishery. 5@40-45cm would seem like a big punch in the guts for those that target them initially but taking home 5x45-50cm Snapper is a much better day than taking home 10x33cm squire IMO.
    Democracy: Simply a system that allows the 51% to steal from the other 49%.

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