Help with a flat start battery

[Paul071978]

Hi Ronje it’s this one
https://m.catch.com.au/product/matso...er_id=21734757

[Ronje1]

Looks like there's a lot of confusion about "load testing" for batteries.

Real load testing is done via a device that not only draws current (heaps of it) but measures voltage AT THE SAME TIME.

The other form of "load testing" isn't load testing at all and is simply done by measuring voltages at the battery terminals. Those readings are transferred (or looked up) on a chart to give an estimate of state of charge which in turn is deciphered into CCA.

These types are voltage based "guesses/estimates" and are not load testers at all.

If you have a "really smart" voltage based meter, it'll use an internal processor to do the conversion for you and pop it onto the display as a xxxCCA figure. Impressive and clever stuff.

I suspect that the very precise quoted CCA figures mentioned earlier were obtained that way.

If its displayed on a readout (say LCD) then it must be correct is the philosophy.

The easy way to pick that a voltage based tester is being used is when the tester device asks for the battery type (L/Acid, AGM, GELL, Calcium etc).

It asks for the type of battery because there are variations in post terminal voltages of different types (calcium batteries up to 15v or so).

Inputting the battery type gives the base level voltage from which the relative voltage variations are measured. Tells the inbuilt processor which mathematical formula to use to deliver a CCA figure on the readout.

These are mickey mouse tupperware devices that lead to more confusion in an already confusing industry.

However, the current test doesn't give a rats about what type of battery the current is being drawn from to kick the starter over. As long as there's enough of it.

and that test is NOT a guess or estimate that the battery should be capable of turning the starter. The motor will either crank over or it wont.

If anybody goes to a dealer/mechanic to get a battery tested and he pulls out one of these technologically impressive jesus-boxes to do it, go somewhere else.

There are other real and effective genuine load tester brands around apart from Kincrome (and just as cheap).

If you happen to have one of these whizz-bang voltage based testers already, nod wisely and sneak off quietly to get a real tester.

Technology based progress is one thing but this sort of stuff doesn't do much to reduce confusion.

That's my view anyway.

[Paul071978]

Hey Ron will this kincrome load tester work on lithium batteries as well?

[gazza2006au]

Noel is on point in post 17 disconnect the battery, charge it and let it sit

Cant believe no one has pointed to a faulty but working starter motor if the starter motor brushes are worn low it will flatten the battery

0.01amp per hour is 3.36amps over 14 days from my understanding a regular start battery is only 50-60amp hours that is quiet a loss

OP can have someone hold a multimeter on the battery terminals while cranking anything less than 8.2volts under load its a bad battery, once its charged and sat idle if it drops to or below 12.2volts in a few days the battety has lost a cell

[Ronje1]

Hey Ron will this kincrome load tester work on lithium batteries as well?

Yes. It doesn't matter what type of battery the current is coming from. Amps are amps.

Different types of battery material simply are different ways of producing and managing those amps. But they're still basic old amps that start motors, provide light, refrigeration etc.

[shakey55]

Just the last week I’ve been having trouble with my start battery in my 4.2 TD Nissan Patrol. Then unfortunately left lights on and flattened it. Charge for 24 hours and just didn’t seem to fully change. Took the old girl for a 100 km run and went to battery shop where I have got to know the owner over a few years.

He tested battery and said good volts, but I’ll check cranking amps. He puts on what I think is a flash looking digital load tester and while doing so explains that he is looking for cranking amps and that my battery is a 720 CCA battery. After test he shows me that my 720 battery is only showing 125 CCA. Time for a new battery.

What I’m saying without any expertise is that you can have the required volts but still be very deficient in CCA’s


Sent from my iPad using Ausfish forums

[Noelm]

Very simple concept in a battery, I will try to explain in very simple home handyman terms, all it consists of is a number of "cells" these cells produce around 1.5V each, just like your common old AA torch/remote control battery, connect these cells together - to + in a "line" series is the correct term, until 8 of them are connected and you have 12V, now do you reckon 8 AA cells will start your car/boat? not a hope in hell, but, you have a full 12V don't you? Voltage is simple to measure (so is current or Amps) it's the Amps that actually get the job done, to provide high Amps, you need better materials and more of them, lead immersed if Acid is the best (for the cost to manufacture) product to produce this high current or Amps, yet you still only produce 1.5V per cell (approx).
When a battery is made, Lead "plates" (flat thin pieces of Lead) are suspended in Acid, the more plates, the more current the battery is capable of producing, but that same old 1.5V never changes, that's why a quality battery is heavy, it has more Lead plates. Now, over time, these plates get consumed and your battery slowly loses efficiency, this is especially evident in cold weather, and your battery gets "iffy" sometimes the plates simply break or short out (for various reasons) and your battery just dies, usually at the most inconvenient time, which seems to be more common these days, especially since real Lead is hardly used now, the material still looks like Lead and it's still heavy, and still used to make sinkers and stuff, but, it's not Lead.
You often hear about reconditioning a battery, this is sort of possible, but I personally wouldn't bother, what happens is, over time, the plates can get an oxide built up on them (for various reasons) and a really high charge current can sort of clean them, but in reality, it's just buying a bit of time, it's also possible to roll a battery over a few times, drain the rubbish Acid out and refill it, but the cost of the Acid plus new clothes to replace the ones you burnt holes in, and the burning skin makes this also a waste of time (and dangerous) anyone who has had even a tiny bit of Acid in the eye will know it's not a great past time!
Charging is another mixed bag, and worthy of its own thread, but in essence, when you start your boat, turn on a radio or light, you "use" energy stored in your battery, this needs to be replenished, and it's done via a charging device on the motor, or a charger at home, high out put chargers are OK to "get you going" but will shorten a batteries life considerably.

[Noelm]

Oops, I forgot to add, the "story" above is meant to convey why simply measuring voltage means little when battery "testing" voltage measuring does not confirm a batteries capability, a true "load" tester is quite complicated and almost shorts the terminals together, and we all know what happens when our shifter or screwdriver touched both terminals, plenty of sparks, and lots of heat, so, a load tester needs to be well designed and most are not cheap. A kind of home test can be to use your meter on the battery terminals while someone turns the key to start, read the voltage while thus happens, it's not a "real" load test, but it's all you can do at the ramp or in the garage to help diagnose an issue.

[Ronje1]

Deleted due to mistake.

[Noelm]

OK, please yourself, far be it from me to try to explain things so people might understand, you just write your novel, I'm out of this shit.

[Ronje1]

Noelm

I owe you an apology and am giving one un-reservedly and publicly.

I failed to confirm that you were indeed somebody who had a few words of a personal nature to say in relation to a topic a few months ago. You weren't.

As a result of that failure, I made a mistake and answered your attempt to help people the way I did.

Id love to turn the clock back but I can't so I have to take whatever you decide on the chin (as I should). However, I've deleted that post.

Ron