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Thread: Snapper Wild Stocking......... it's viable

  1. #1

    Exclamation Snapper Wild Stocking......... it's viable

    Watched a program recently, that touched on Wild stocking of Snapper ( Pinkies , as they are known in WA ).

    It involved recreational fishers tagging Snapper in their closed season, TAFE collecting eggs and breeding them up to release size.

    Quite interesting, so I managed to find some details here :- https://recfishwest.org.au/our-services/fish-stocking/

    I was told by Fisheries Queensland, some time ago, that wild stocking of Snapper is not " viable ". Well considering the stringent measures taken in attempting to manage the Snapper fishery here in Qld, maybe that word " viable " needs to be replaced ?

    If the Qld Snapper fishery is not recovering due to current management, then wild stocking must be seriously looked at again.

    If FQ are in doubt, maybe they can contact their WA counterparts and get the lowdown ????

    Here is also a part of the program.. :-

    Cheers LP
    Kingfisher Painting Solutions:- Domestic and Commercial.

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  2. #2

    Re: Snapper Wild Stocking......... it's viable

    I guess as long as strict disease management is implemented so odd diseases don't get transferred to natural stock (like white spot in Prawns) then why not, even if less than half the fish survive, then it's more than there was. Without further bag limits and raising of size limits, it's really the only option except a total ban, and who will go for that?

  3. #3

    Re: Snapper Wild Stocking......... it's viable

    I was just talking about something similar while having a beer with my son the other day, let's say in 1990 ( that's just a date I pulled out of my bum) you could go out and catch 10 Snapper, at the ramp, there was 30 boats out, that makes 300 Snapper caught (if everyone was fishing for Snapper) now fast forward to 2020, I go out and catch 2 Snapper, but the ramp is packed, there's boat trailers everywhere, everyone caught 2 Snapper each, is the total catch per day the same (by number), but it is spread over so many boats now? Add to that the age old question, how do we reliably count them?

  4. #4

    Re: Snapper Wild Stocking......... it's viable

    Quote Originally Posted by Noelm View Post
    I was just talking about something similar while having a beer with my son the other day, let's say in 1990 ( that's just a date I pulled out of my bum) you could go out and catch 10 Snapper, at the ramp, there was 30 boats out, that makes 300 Snapper caught (if everyone was fishing for Snapper) now fast forward to 2020, I go out and catch 2 Snapper, but the ramp is packed, there's boat trailers everywhere, everyone caught 2 Snapper each, is the total catch per day the same (by number), but it is spread over so many boats now? Add to that the age old question, how do we reliably count them?
    Yep, I know. I have been involved with the science regarding Snapper in Qld and the basic fact is , we do not know the recreational take ( or bio mass ), so we have to make an educated guess. Some people are not happy with that, but we just have to accept that, given the impossible task of defining those numbers.

    We also take into consideration they fact that technology plays a huge part in fish stock declines, human population ( boat people ), pollution, habitat destruction and more.

    Are reduced bag limits, increased size limits, boat limits, close seasons etc working ? Good question.............. how long is a piece of string ?

    Until we do like WA and have measured involvement from rec anglers beside FQ, we may never be able to quantify the Snapper Fishery management .

    From my perspective and anecdotal evidence as well as physical personal evidence, our Snapper fishery is still in decline.

    Habitat destruction and commercial trawling by-catch, IMO, are a huge contributor to this decline with the by-catch having no real management changes to reduce this. Some will say " oh there have been a reduction in trawl operators / licences ", but that does not equate to a reduction in by-catch. No a significant number anyway.

    Let's have a quick squizz at every fishery that has had either stocking programs or banning of commercial fishing........... WOW.................. robust and sustainable fisheries. Fish Management 101........... simples ><>

    LP
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  5. #5

    Re: Snapper Wild Stocking......... it's viable

    I think you hit a nerve when you mention By-catch, that to mamy is just a way of saying take what you like.
    I recall quite some time ago (possibly as far back as 15 years or more) the fisheries research centre at Bribie had success in breeding snapper and high hopes of restocking. I never kept up to date with their research, what changed I wonder.

  6. #6

    Re: Snapper Wild Stocking......... it's viable

    I think you will will find that the growth rate of snapper is the problem with viability .

    My understanding is that there isn't an issue with the recruitment of snapper ....... they are abundant .

    It boils down to the size limits - they need to be higher than they are ..... give those fish a chance to spawn a few times .
    fix that & they will be a sustainable wild species .

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  7. #7

    Re: Snapper Wild Stocking......... it's viable

    Quote Originally Posted by Dignity View Post
    I think you hit a nerve when you mention By-catch, that to mamy is just a way of saying take what you like.
    I recall quite some time ago (possibly as far back as 15 years or more) the fisheries research centre at Bribie had success in breeding snapper and high hopes of restocking. I never kept up to date with their research, what changed I wonder.
    Yep.......... viability, was the issue.. $'s !
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  8. #8

    Re: Snapper Wild Stocking......... it's viable

    Quote Originally Posted by NAGG View Post
    I think you will will find that the growth rate of snapper is the problem with viability .

    My understanding is that there isn't an issue with the recruitment of snapper ....... they are abundant .

    It boils down to the size limits - they need to be higher than they are ..... give those fish a chance to spawn a few times .
    fix that & they will be a sustainable wild species .

    Chris
    That " size limit " management has been going on for many many years, and it has come to naught, hence there has been bag limits, closures and now another reduction in possession limits and now boat limits..... the current stock management is not working, clearly.

    Time to think outside the box and be pro-active, rather than reactive.

    LP
    Kingfisher Painting Solutions:- Domestic and Commercial.

    For further information, contact details, quotes or advice - Click Here





  9. #9

    Re: Snapper Wild Stocking......... it's viable

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky_Phill View Post
    That " size limit " management has been going on for many many years, and it has come to naught, hence there has been bag limits, closures and now another reduction in possession limits and now boat limits..... the current stock management is not working, clearly.

    Time to think outside the box and be pro-active, rather than reactive.

    LP
    It's come to naught - because we are allowed to target juvenile fish ...... a 30cm snapper probably hasn't had the chance to breed
    40cm snapper have definitely reached maturity ...... maybe that should be the minimum size

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  10. #10

    Re: Snapper Wild Stocking......... it's viable

    I dont think its wild stocking because the fry are captivity bred,

    We have had stocking over the past year of king fish in Sydney but no one i have heard from has caught the captivity bred fish and they released 10's of thousands

    There is quiet a bit of difference from raising fry in live pens to releasing fry into the wild to battle on there own

    Those fish that escaped the Port Stephens pen were 45-50cm well and truley big enough to out speed noah but fry 40mm long are like candy to a bream or tailer

    I wonder howthey will release snapper fry will they be gently released from a sea pen if so how do pens work for snapper as they are bottom dwellers if they release the snapper fry 40mm into open waters there all going to get eatin

  11. #11

    Re: Snapper Wild Stocking......... it's viable

    Ive got a cousin breeding Qld grouper and cobia commercially ,so there cheap to grow out to make money on them ,snapper are another story the cost per fingling would be higher, there's nothing they can't do its the cost of doing it that dictates and there a smart bunch at Bribie, Maroochydore river didn't prosper from restocking many years ago of bread and butter species,so im woundering weither it would work locally for the bay or outside in the deep water.

  12. #12

    Re: Snapper Wild Stocking......... it's viable

    Quote Originally Posted by NAGG View Post
    It's come to naught - because we are allowed to target juvenile fish ...... a 30cm snapper probably hasn't had the chance to breed
    40cm snapper have definitely reached maturity ...... maybe that should be the minimum size

    Chris
    Chris, The science says Snapper have had at least 2 seasons to bred at 35cms, hence the original size limit introductions. They are a relativity slow growing animal unfortunately.

    LP
    Kingfisher Painting Solutions:- Domestic and Commercial.

    For further information, contact details, quotes or advice - Click Here





  13. #13

    Re: Snapper Wild Stocking......... it's viable

    Quote Originally Posted by gazza2006au View Post
    I dont think its wild stocking because the fry are captivity bred,

    We have had stocking over the past year of king fish in Sydney but no one i have heard from has caught the captivity bred fish and they released 10's of thousands

    There is quiet a bit of difference from raising fry in live pens to releasing fry into the wild to battle on there own

    Those fish that escaped the Port Stephens pen were 45-50cm well and truley big enough to out speed noah but fry 40mm long are like candy to a bream or tailer

    I wonder howthey will release snapper fry will they be gently released from a sea pen if so how do pens work for snapper as they are bottom dwellers if they release the snapper fry 40mm into open waters there all going to get eatin
    How would a recreational angler know if they caught a wild stocked Kingie ? The system of breeding and releasing stocks utilises a chemical dye in the food that can only be traced if the fish that has been caught is returned to the " lab " for analysis .

    The question of viability comes down to importance and votes. There is no doubt it is important, maybe even vital to sustain our fisheries, but would a sitting Govt spend a couple of mill on fingerlings or a new park / school / road / etc etc

    The question of viability is also heavily linked to priorities. If you took a petition to the Fisheries Minister that had 250,000 signatures on it, you'd have wild stocking locked in the following week. Unfortunately it works this way

    WE know the recruitment rate in the wild is under 5% and the science tells us recruitment of released ( wild stocked ) fish would be about 1%. 1% of say 20 million is still a huge impact in say Moreton Bay. Those figures are not out of reach as each mature Snapper can produce up to 3 million eggs per breeding season... extrapolate that !! ><>

    I'm just saying the Snapper fishery is not sustainable here in Qld and needs a hand. The hand being given currently is not working. Habitat rehabilitation, wild stocking and by-catch reduction are the only things not addressed in current management programs.

    LP
    Kingfisher Painting Solutions:- Domestic and Commercial.

    For further information, contact details, quotes or advice - Click Here





  14. #14

    Re: Snapper Wild Stocking......... it's viable

    OK, now this might be way off base, but...I have lived in the same place all my life, there is a little Estuary very close by, small Snapper were a "pest" when I was a kid fishing decades ago, the same Estuary is full of small Snapper today, you could go and catch dozens right now, so, that saiid, if the juvenile fish are still there, why is there so few legal fish in the ocean? Does my original thought hold water? they are there, but they are spread over hundreds of anglers now? we haven't had Ocean trawling here for years now, (there is only 2 boats now still operating) most licences where "bought out" by money raised from rec license fees. Does the fact that there is thousands of houses now play a part, as bits and pieces of the water front gets altered? does just constant fishing pressure play a part? Would releasing more small Snapper be fruitless, because there's plenty there now? There is just so many almost unanswerable questions, but one things certain, unless we play our part, and stop being paranoid about data collection, or pointing the finger at someone else, then ultimately we will suffer.

  15. #15

    Re: Snapper Wild Stocking......... it's viable

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky_Phill View Post
    Chris, The science says Snapper have had at least 2 seasons to bred at 35cms, hence the original size limit introductions. They are a relativity slow growing animal unfortunately.

    LP
    Anything I've read in the past show that there is no definitive size when it comes to sexual maturity .......(Location has a lot to do with it ) as low as about 26cm by the same token as high as 38cm .
    Sexual maturity does not define if a fish is breeding either ......... it's why spawning aggregations usually involve larger fish - have you ever seen a spawning aggregation ? they are big fish

    - Additionally the fact is that the quality & number of eggs produced by smaller fish are not anywhere near those of a larger female ...... so there is the viability issue .

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

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