Techo stuff NBN and 5G Wireless

[Ronje1]

Here we are.

American, Brit and Irishman discussing history of each nation's developments in telecommunications technology.

Yank claimed that historical dig at Battle of New Orleans site at Chalmette Field beside Mississippi River found copper based cable at 5 metres depth thereby showing that US was using telecommunications since at least 1815.

Brit claimed that at a dig at Stonehenge, cable was found at a depth of 30 metres showing that Britain was using telecommunications at a time when the Egyptians were building the pyramids.

Irish guy claimed that a dig in Ireland went down to 100 metres and found............nothing. Thus proving that Ireland was using wireless based telecommunications thousands of years before anybody else.

NBN fibre optic to the premises (FTTP) and 5G wireless.

[Noelm]

Wireless seems like the logical step, but in fact, it has some serious limitations to overcome before it can get even close to "wires" well, fibre actually, during my last 25 years working in IT I have been involved in different ways with networks, we had/have, copper (going back to phone net) wireless, micro wave, Ethernet, you name it, and personally, I don't see a full wireless solution for a very long time, total fibre is probably the best option, but, it's going to cost big money and time, the current fibre to the node was/is a feel good solution that is nothing more than a patch work job at best.

[Noelm]

OK, and this probably doesn't belong in fishing chat, a mod might move it perhaps?

[Ronje1]

OK, and this probably doesn't belong in fishing chat, a mod might move it perhaps?

Fair enough.

Wireless is logical and workable in certain circumstances but definitely not a universal technical solution.

5G uses frequencies in the 3 ghz range (F1) and 26ghz (F2). the SHF band (Super High Frequency band).

All of the fancy names like wireless, micro-wave, bluetooth, 2G, Next G, 4G or 5G, ethernet and WiFi are simply industry jargon and they are certainly used a lot to signify apparent familiarity with the industry.

However, they are ALL underpinned by the use of the electromagnetic spectrum. Radiocommunications to put it simply.

Each band of frequencies (lf, mf, hf, vhf , uhf, shf etc ) has different free space radiation characteristics ( loss, diffraction, refraction, reflection) and each band interacts with path obstacles in different ways.

That's why a one size fits all approach doesn't work.

Telecommunications however, is not electromagnetic radiation based. Its cable based. When the two are combined we get another bit of industry jargon called convergence. The two technologies converge.

Telecommunications gives us the ability to convert messages (voice or data) into a suitable format to be combined with radiocommunications ( be "carried" by radiocommunications).

That's where we get term "carrier" from as in carrier provider. "Carrier" is an older term meaning a radio signal with no modulation/message signal on it.

Taking the jargon a step further, we now call radiocommunications "wireless". A smaller word, easier to understand. Messages to distant places less wires (cable wires).

The wheel has gone full circle. The inventor of radio (Marconi) called his development "wireless" in the late 1800s. One of the original Acts of the new Australian Parliament was called the Wireless Telegraphy Act in 1905. Everything old is new again.

The bottom line is that the demand for "wireless" was intended for point to point communications when cable lengths required to connect the two points were impractical (usually between countries).

Eventually, the world recognized the advantages of wireless technology but that early technology had teething problems. So until those problems (signal path problems in free space) were properly sorted out,

submarine cables were laid between countries under vast oceans. They were remarkably reliable. Australia's termination point for the Pacific submarine cable was at Mon Repo beach near Bundaberg. The

"come ashore" point (Mon Repos) got its name from the "French Connection" point of the cable from New Caledonia which was a french colony.

The only road into Bundaberg from the beach in those days was called " Telegraph Rd" (the road ran beside the cable). Telegraph Rd still exists but its no longer the only to/from the beach.

There was also demand for communications between a fixed point and a moving point in those days. The moving point was the first use of "mobile" technology and was called a ship.

It was the difficulties relating to transmission of those wireless signals without a connecting metallic conductor that needed to be overcome.

Over time, that was sorted out and over more time the world started to turn more and more to the radiocommunication technology to carry the signals. Nothing like a war to develop technology and it was

predominantly the development of the use of electromagnetic radiation (radar, remote control, sonar, battlefield coordination, direction finding, jamming (radar in particular)) surrounding the 2nd World War that

catapulted us to where we find ourselves today.

That's the background as I see it.

[Barry Ehsman]

OK, and this probably doesn't belong in fishing chat, a mod might move it perhaps?

Well there is no fishing chat anyway, waste of $10 being a part of this forum.

[Noelm]

Well there is no fishing chat anyway, waste of $10 being a part of this forum.

Post some chat then!

[gunna]

Post some chat then!

And stop encouraging that other bloke. Getting sick of the long winded self ego diatribes.

[Barry Ehsman]

Post some chat then!

Mine is mainly freshwater mate & when i did post nobody was very interested.

[Barry Ehsman]

And stop encouraging that other bloke. Getting sick of the long winded self ego diatribes.

Well said Gunna, i think he is a wannabe school teacher.

[Dignity]

Mine is mainly freshwater mate & when i did post nobody was very interested.

I read them but don't comment as I only ever did bass in my yak at BPD quite a few years ago.
Don't give up posting as I am forced to my bed atm with a bad chest infection and do need some interesting reading but not techno babble, I just want my equipment to work.

[gazza2006au]

Just tested my mobile phone internet speed i donno much about internet speeds however i do remember dial up days that lasted about 3 weeks before i signed up for broadband

Heres my test thurday night 10pmAttachment 122331Attachment 122332

Sent from my SM-G900I using Ausfish mobile app

[Ronje1]

For those who don't want to contribute or exchange views about the subject, don't look.

Its that simple.

If not, then its obvious that you don't have any respect for other site users who are interested and your intention is simply to disrupt.



Do you know what it should be Gaz? Got good strong reception?

Speed of a network isn't a measure of velocity (like a car speedometer) , Gaz. Its the rate of exchange of data within a network. The "baud exchange" rate.


Wireless (including mobile phones) is simply a technical compromise when you can't use cable.

The compromise is because the user wants convenience and flexibility in being able to move his end around. That means no cable so its wireless.

The price to be paid for that convenience and flexibility is the inherent drawbacks associated with wireless.

That basic and fundamental user decision is pretty easy to understand.

Having made that initial decision, then its a bit much to expect top notch fibre optic cable performance from a wireless compromise. Similar to a FTTN vs FTTP comparisons.

And THAT unrealistic expectation (fostered and fuelled by commercial wireless interests) is where confusion started.

Aus is only a very small market in the overall scheme of wireless (mainly mobile phone) sales on the world stage.

Once everybody has a mobile phone, what happens then? The sales market is full and only a much smaller maintenance market then exists so demand drops.

A full market is no good for sales (read profit), so how do you arrange a brand new market?

Change the wireless technology regularly so that everybody needs a new phone regularly.

And that's called...market churn. Small market with regular changes in technology requiring new sales leads to a sustained demand and profits.



A similar thing happens in the fish finder industry. New "improved" technology along with new improved models leads to the same effect.

A lot of the new chirp sounders have "throttled back" performance (although they're capable of better immediate performance if they're allowed) to allow the introduction of "new models with improved performance" a bit down the track. .......market churn again.

There have been some genuine new technological innovations though. Sidescan, CHIRP itself, 360 imaging.

As an example in the sounder industry, there's a technology associated with spinning transducers that can easily be incorporated into both sounder and wireless technology.

Its called CADF (commutated antenna direction finder). I used such an installation for work in a vehicle for a long time in locating sources of radio transmissions.

Nothing actually spins around like everybody believes a radiocommunication d/f should (movies can sure be misleading).

A series of stationary radio (wireless) antennas are electronically "swept" by a "jesus box" of electronics at over 1,000 times per second and the resulting direction displayed on a circular screen via a HUD (heads up display) on the windscreen in front of the driver. Easy as.

In mobile phone networks that CADF technology is capable of being installed at base stations to firstly detect the direction that a mobile phone signal is coming from THEN using that directional data to feed phasing signals to an antenna which changes its polar diagram to favour that direction thus increasing the signal quality to/from that particular phone.

Nothing is revolving or spinning anywhere.

Ditto with 360 degree sounder transducers. At the moment they physically spin to look in a circle. Water ingress is a problem along with current draw from the battery to keep spinning the transducer inside the pod in a circle.

Change the transducer by using CADF technology and nothing spins around.

The "jesus box" samples the signal of a single antenna (or transducer ceramic) and then electronically compares it to the signal from the previous antenna (or transducer ceramic) and does that with each antenna in turn at a rate of about 1000 times per second.

It wouldn't even need to have the phase comparator circuitry just to sample the ceramic output.

In the radiocommunication (wireless) world, a certain type of signal change (max rate of phase change is an example of the type of change) will give a choice of 2 directions (in front or behind your direction of travel).

The "jesus box" is capable of further refining that directional data into front or rear easily by measuring if the phase difference between the antennas is changing from leading to lagging or from

lagging to leading. The operator needs to know what's in front (not when he's past the source) so the appropriate phase information is selected by the box.

So there's a significant technological change that I believe could be very useful for both wireless and sounder fish finders.

Currently, fixed mobile phone users (home installations with no fixed phone access in difficult terrain) use a high gain directional antenna like a yagi-uda antenna to maximise signal to/from the nearest cell base station. The signal maximising work is done at the customer end.

[gazza2006au]

Hey Ron not to sure i think my reception is that little scale next to the 4g up the top of my screen shots my internet isnt super fast but im the only user and i can watch hours after hours of youtube i can see the videos download a little bit quicker than i am watching them

However uploads going from cable to mobile have reduced massively my uploads once took 5-10-15mins now my short 400mb video uploads on mobile are taking well over an hour its something i miss but i dont miss the bill and with mobile i can use on the run

A good thing about mobile internet i can be in bunnings type in a search and click the item im looking for and bunnings will tell me what isle the product is in ao i can swoop in pick it up and leave before my anxiety kicks in

Sent from my SM-G900I using Ausfish mobile app

[Ronje1]

Why 5G (with ALL the advantages and innovation that it possesses) should NOT be used universally to replace the NBN fibre to the node (FTTN) in suburban areas.

Attachment 122336

[Noelm]

I remember when a phone in a car was a big deal, a big power pack suitcase and a phone, complete with cord was more or less just a standard home hand piece, plus the car required an antenna, spooky hey?