Qld covid border closures

[shaungonemad]

Seen a victorian driver in sydney this afternoon i had my windows down and he pulled in from of me all it would have takin is a sneeze while driving than suck strait into my car

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Yep carona for you.


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[Noelm]

Everyone was warned in the 80s that the sale of Telecom would mean the end of guaranteed and equitable access to telecommunications. Reap what you sow.

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This kind of thing has been an issue in all types of Government departments, sure there was hundreds of employees who did next to nothing, but, in the main, electricity, phones, water and a dozen other commodities were supplied as a "service" not a money making proposition, over the years, things changed and bean counters decided to sell off these non profit services to private enterprises, they do not provide a service, they make money, jobs went and money was the object.

[Steeler]

Seen a victorian driver in sydney this afternoon i had my windows down and he pulled in from of me all it would have takin is a sneeze while driving than suck strait into my car

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Couldn't have been a company car where the company is based in Vic but the driver a NSW Employee

Couldn't have been a hire car ?

Couldn't have been recently purchased from Vic by a NSW resident trucked up and not changed over yet out of Vic to NSW plates ?

Being out Liverpool way could it have been a ADF employee originally from Vic based out of Holsworthy , Richmond etc

Thousands of reasons Gaz

[NAGG]

Ronje, in this one you are a tool. There was nothing stopping you upgrading to fibre from the node to the house on your own dime. Why should the rest of the country pay for that when fibre to the node was plenty fast for the majority of Australians (at the time).

also you’re conveniently forgetting the bullshit forecasting that Labour did on the coatings. First it was a 20bn project. Then quickly 50bn. Even when Malcom cut it back it still cost more than that.

BTW your analogy of the fire house is completely wrong.

Lets stick with the facts - It was estimated that the NBN would cost about $15 billion prior to the 2007 election - that was back of an envelope cost
Then at a later point in 2008 /09 - After proper costing / planning incl the decision to bypass the old copper network ( because it was shit) ..... the cost estimates were about $38 billion.

It was your old mate Tony Abbott in 2013 that they would alter the NBN & base it on mixed technologies & the now infamous "FTTN" & said that it could be done for about $30 billion
Well how has that worked out ? -
Labor realised that the old copper network was shit - It's why they avoided it & why the costs increased .
Under the LNP they came to learn how bad ithe old copper network was - the cost of powering the nodes but worst of all how bad the the pits were involving the cost of asbestos removal & the replacement with polyproylene & polyethylene . So much of the copper network has had to be replaced ,...... something like 50,000 km of copper wire . All of this has blown out Abbott & Turnbull fraudband to something like $51 billion . I work with the major producers of both copper wire & fiber - They absolutely love Fraudband because they're sales went through the roof & exceeded budget significantly because of their copper manufacturing .

So we have ended up with a slower second rate NBN which is more expensive ...... and now Scomo wants to roll out more FTTP because he knows that the FTTN was a cockup.

Chris

[Noelm]

I doubt most of us will ever see fibre to every house, there might be isolated areas that will get done, but, replacing the entire copper network would take a lifetime, by the time it was even a quarter finished, something better would come along. Just the sheer scale of the job is mind boggling, let alone the cost, it would take so long to do, costing would be impossible, it has to become a "just do it" project, having been involved in fibre networks for a long time, the job is enormous.

[gazza2006au]

Couldn't have been a company car where the company is based in Vic but the driver a NSW Employee

Couldn't have been a hire car ?

Couldn't have been recently purchased from Vic by a NSW resident trucked up and not changed over yet out of Vic to NSW plates ?

Being out Liverpool way could it have been a ADF employee originally from Vic based out of Holsworthy , Richmond etc

Thousands of reasons Gaz

Possibly but it was a old camry

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[gazza2006au]

Not sure what this fibre thing is optical fibre? Internet? If it is before the gov outlays billions wireless internet would just become cheaper and way easier to use

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[shakey55]

Why dose (our gov) persist with this technology, when it appears that wireless is the future.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/27/what-is-wi-fi-6.html



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[Noelm]

Wireless (at the moment) is not anywhere near as good or safe as a cable, someday maybe, but it's a long way off.

[NAGG]

Why dose (our gov) persist with this technology, when it appears that wireless is the future.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/27/what-is-wi-fi-6.html



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Wireless has limitations - it's nowhere near a stable as cable (proper FTTH). It depends on the location of the tower . The construction of the building or what is around it , where you locate the modem . what interference from other appliances etc . Plus a lot of other stuff.
My 5G is pretty darn good with speeds of up to 183mb/s - but it's also been down as low as 25mb/s .... & I'm limited to 200Gb

Chris

[Ronje1]

[QUOTE=shakey55;1676058]Why dose (our gov) persist with this technology, when it appears that wireless is the future.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/27/what-is-wi-fi-6.html

To get the speed you need bandwidth. To get sufficient bandwidth you need higher frequencies. Much much higher than latest mobile phone freqs. You know how much trouble you have with mobile phones in hilly or foliaged areas. In cities mob phones are ok 'cos the buildings reflect signals into every nook and cranny.

In hilly or forested areas you can throw the phone further than you can talk on it particularly if u're not using an outside antenna AND u're trying to talk from inside a moving tin can to boot. That's the negative impact of using increasingly higher and higher frequencies.

Low to the ground nodes using wireless distribution in suburbs/regional areas means no range PLUS the leafy part of our leafy suburbs absorbs the high freq wireless signals.

At least with fibre optic cable, wireless frequencies as high as those of light can be used in the cable. THEN we have no problems with bandwidth or speed.

But the fibre optic cable needs to go to the house/premises (FTTP) to achieve that and THAT means enormous expense.

Such an expensive infrastructure project just doesn't make sense in the light of broader advantages that other much needed projects can bring to the community.

Covid has exposed the shortcomings of fibre to the node (FTTN) via businesses using it to work from employees residences where the fibre optic network is very patchy at best..

There are widespread calls to business to continue that practice. Savings by business in not having to provide the businesses infrastructure (office space/depot/employee facilities/parking etc) are seductive notions.

There'll be some moves to do just that. We've seen the effect of business employees working from home on the FTTN network already (congestion from business use in the suburbs).

Prior to covid, Aus's FTTN was a second world telecommunication system and It sure won't get any better without tossing FTTN out and replacing it with FTTP (fibre to the premises).

Aus needs to look nationally at community impact of businesses working from home on the existing telecommunications networks that service those communities.

[Steeler]

Re: Qld covid border closures

[Lovey80]

Ronje, mobile phones networks don’t work well because the signal bounces off buildings. Yes you get some reflection but with each reflection the signal is vastly reduced. Networks are good in cities because you have hundreds of antennas in a very small area (to negate the buildings blocking signal) which is justified by the dense number of users in that area. compared to in the bush or hilly areas where it’s harder to justify more expensive towers due to less people.

The mm frequencies of 5G will require vastly more towers spaced even closer together to achieve the same thing without frying everyone’s balls with huge power outputs. There will be small antennas everywhere you look. On cars. In most floors of high rises, everywhere. But the tested speeds are massive compared to the stuff they are talking about with FTTP. And on top of that we don’t need the government to pay for it because the private sector will install it all or they’ll get left behind.

[TheRealAndy]

Ronje, mobile phones networks don’t work well because the signal bounces off buildings. Yes you get some reflection but with each reflection the signal is vastly reduced.

Lol.

Lovely, you are pretty skilled in a lot of areas. What do you do for a living? Are you an electrical engineer?

[Ronje1]

Lovey,
You get heaps of reflections (not some). That's why its successful in CBD areas. The main effect of reflections is the 180 degree phase change that accompanies it. Signal polarisation change also occurs. Both can cause problems to a stationary mobile phone user. Move the phone a bit (like take a step) and the relationships between reflected signals changes. Ditto with the relationships between reflected signals and any direct signal changes. The signal "comes good".

In regional areas and suburbs you dont have the tall hard surfaces from which reflections can occur. Mostly you have straight out attenuation problems due to hilly ground and foliage.

And the effects of both are greater as you go higher in frequency. 24 - 30 ghz freqs in the mm 5G band are more affected than the 6 ghz portion of the band.

If you are looking for increased bandwidth to allow higher data exchange rates, then you need high signal strengths AND you won't find those higher signal strengths in leafy, hilly suburbs or regional areas if you are trying to push SHF frequencies around the place to provide service. SHF frequencies (Super High Frequencies) are those whose wavelengths are measured in cm. Yet the industry "jargon" refers to mm.

And that's where the FTTN exists. Not in CBD or well served inner city suburbs of major cities.

Installing any sort of wireless network from the node is every bit as poor a decision as using the copper cables to the premises (FTTN) decision in the first place.

NONE of the wireless technology can compete with a straight cable connection. None. No transmission or signal path variations in a cable.

Basically a fibre-optic cable is bandwidth capable from " dc to daylight".

In addition the attenuation loss is predictable and therefore easily surmountable to allow sufficient signal strengths at the premises for true wide bandwidth and high data speed exchange operation.

Why on earth would anybody swap a 2nd best distribution system (fibre to the node) with another 2nd best distribution system ( wireless)? Same operational problems but from different causes.

Industry will install wireless technology in FTTN areas hoping to make a profit? In the words of Darryl from The Castle " Tell 'im .... ...............".

I'm happy with what I've got (FTTN) providing that we don't have the continuing congestion problems associated with employees operating business computer activities from their homes like we've been experiencing with covid.

I see that Scott Morrison and Friedenberg are now talking about incentives for businesses to get their employees back to their offices to assist other CBD businesses recover. Get 'em back out of the suburbs.

If an upgrade to fibre-optic to the premises cable is contemplated to create jobs for the recovery, I don't have a problem with that.

At least at the end of the day and the expenditure of a lot of money, Aus will have something to show for it.

Spend our way out of a recession? You betcha.