Sounder fundamentals for the guys who wanted it

[scottar]

Well I valued the read thanks!!!

So,

If you had a budget of 20K (ish)
And we’re building a new glass boat at 6.7m predominantly to chase Red Emperor and Rosies in the NW what would you install?

I thought I had it figured out but keep second guessing. I want to read bottom at 25knt +.
Through hull, transom mount or otherwise still has me muffed.

I looked at a furuno package as follows; still await the final $$$. But this still lacks a second screen for navigation & sounder at once. And budget 25K+ (I think)

TZT3 - 12” display
DI-FFAMP sonar module
Nav Pilot 711C
SCX-20 sat nav
DST -800 - temp sensor (any other option if avail)
82B 35R - 2kw transducer
SS175HW - 1kw transducer
1 x VHF radio
1 x fusion stereo

Worried that the manufacturers specs have temp range up to 55°. I want to flush mount and think I would exceed that temp at times here 樂

Thoughts ???

A couple of new products in that list Cammmo that haven't hit the streets - may be some teething issues - if you can live with that until the software updates arrive, I would assume that in typical Furuno fashion they will do everything you want. The new TZ3 from the U-Tube video at least has some pretty good user interfaces. The temp rating - my opinion - is probably to do with the fact that pretty much everything (all brands) that uses a bonded LCD has suffered from instances of screen delamination. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_bonding

The main reason in marine screens at least is fogging - it's been the bain of LCD displays in boats since their inception - doesn't hurt having less reflection either. The downside - the resins don't seem to like heat too much. From the looks of things they soften and then get bubbles around the edges. It doesn't seem to effect operation to much but it looks pretty average.

Transducers - first up the high wide. Great transducer if you want pretty fish arches everywhere...….but IMO really only has a place on two types of boat - those that chase highly mobile game fish where they will zero in on a lure from anywhere in the cone angle and those that pretty much stay in water less than 30 metres deep - places like Port Phillip Bay. Over 30 metres, a wide angle transducer is missing bottom detail due to the sheer area of the cone and any fish in the extremities are lost in the bottom echo anyway. If fish are holding tight on structure and not coming off, it's also harder to know whether you are above them or beside them. You would be far better off IMO with a 200B-8B for general bottom fishing in those depths. I'll make the assumption you intend doing a bit of deep dropping with the 82B-35R - used them myself to 500 odd metres - good transducer. If you aren't deep dropping - probably wouldn't bother - way too much money for the shallower offshore. Something like the CA-50-200-1T and a matching box is also a viable option for shallow to medium depth and will save a bucket of cash as you don't need the sounder module. There are also Airmar 1 Kw tilted element options that will drastically reduce your installation cost if you don't need the 2Kw punch.

[Ronje1]

Guys

Getting too disruptive to people who genuinely want to learn some basics.

Had a couple of other little things about sounder fundamentals (to do with transducers) that I thought might be useful for those wanting to find out a bit more.

Also a couple of the technical specification tricks to watch out for that sounder manufacturers get up to in their advertising which has also done its share of adding to the confusion.

I think the main impact of those little tricks is to further confuse any retailers who are not technically conversant with what its all about. These confused retail staff are the ones who most prospective buyers take advice from.

Anyway, I'll leave you with a little summing up of CHIRP and a screenshot of that simple little calculator.

My email a/d is there.


Attachment 121286



Attachment 121287

[Dignity]

Interesting views, textbook vs reality. I might have to get more popcorn.

[Lucky_Phill]

I am finding it interesting and always appreciate an alternative view or opinion.

It's a bit like the saying ": you can lead a horse to water ..." ><>

or my favourite..... a boat only rides as good as the skipper... same same for a 4 x 4.

cheers LP

[Ronje1]

Just because somebody has an engineering understanding of things doesn't mean that they stay on the textbook side, Dignity.

I'm also familiar with the "dark side" (reality). More than most. Not as much as those who make a living out of it.

Between those two extremes is the "confused zone" and that's where the problems faced by the average prospective buyer/user lie.



Its nothing like the saying " you can lead a horse to water" Phill, 'cos I'm not trying to convince anyone about anything or trying to make them do anything.

Just laying it out for people to take it or leave it as they wish. No alternative views or opinions.

More like showing a horse how to recognise water thus making it a bit easier for him to find it and get it for himself. That's the idea anyway.

Nothing to get excited about let alone reaching for the popcorn.

Got a bit more informative stuff.

[gazza2006au]

Teachers in the house she has a whip for the naughty learners Attachment 121288

Sent from my SM-G900I using Ausfish mobile app

[Dignity]

Just because somebody has an engineering understanding of things doesn't mean that they stay on the textbook side, Dignity.

I'm also familiar with the "dark side" (reality). More than most. Not as much as those who make a living out of it.

Between those two extremes is the "confused zone" and that's where the problems faced by the average prospective buyer/user lie.



Its nothing like the saying " you can lead a horse to water" Phill, 'cos I'm not trying to convince anyone about anything or trying to make them do anything.

Just laying it out for people to take it or leave it as they wish. No alternative views or opinions.

More like showing a horse how to recognise water thus making it a bit easier for him to find it and get it for himself. That's the idea anyway.

Nothing to get excited about let alone reaching for the popcorn.

Got a bit more informative stuff.

I don't doubt your knowledge or abilities as I am also intetested in the subject and happy to learn something new. What is interesting is that you find others input offensive in a forum that invites participation of it's members. "No opinions or alternatives" is a very dictatorial approach and in itself quite derogatory of other members on this forum who busy as they are, take the time to help to numerous others with their knowledge and abilities.

Constructive feedback is what has been given and you should accept it and where necessary debate it not shove it in a corner.

[Ronje1]

Thanks for the observations and advice, Dignity.

No alternative views or opinions.

That's a well made point and I can see why you commented about it. It was intended to apply to me and why I was putting stuff like that on the forum and why it was in that simple format but I didn't explain that intention very well.

It was meant to indicate that I wasn't putting up any of my views or opinions (just facts).

I do however disagree with your claim that constructive feedback was given and should be accepted.

There was nothing constructive in the way that was carried out.

The first post of what you call "constructive feedback" was dismissive and ended with the sentence about " nothing more than advertising blub".

Pretty constructive stuff, eh? Derogatory?

I don't find genuine input offensive at all. Happy to debate.

I DO see that posting stuff about fundamentals of subjects which can (and do) cause confusion as my contribution towards helping people sort things out a bit.

It has to be done in simple non-technical and interesting language though and that means that to be successfully delivered and understood, a bit of "literary licence" needs to be afforded by other people who DO know a lot about the subject.

Not everybody who IS knowledgeable recognises that need though and some persist with wanting to debate (and that's fair enough at first).

The downside is that wanting to debate while others are trying to put their ideas together to resolve some of the confusion, distracts and disrupts people who want to get a better grasp of the basics and simply confuses them even more.

So I sent a simple private explanation (by pm) and asked for some indulgence while the fundamental stuff was being laid out for digestion.

His failure to respond to that request coupled with a public rejection of any flagged private message public and persisting with argument meant that things were then getting into the realm of argument for argument's sake and doing everybody who wants to learn a disservice becoming simple intentional disruption.

Publicly rejecting a flagged attempted private approach (after its been made and without making any response) means that there's also a matter of manners involved. Common courtesy suggests that one at least responds privately first.

I can assure you that I did indeed attempt to converse. I also flagged that intention publicly and carried it out seeking that indulgence (including an explanation of why) and offered to debate on a separate thread.

I can confirm that there was no private answer to any of my suggestions prior to him being blocked.

When he persisted after not responding to my private message, I simply blocked him.

Yes, it was an opportunity lost for enhanced and informative forum debate about a subject confusing to many members I'm sure.

That's the story, Dignity.

Perhaps not as cut and dried as it may have first seemed and not much in the way of entertainment (see below) involved.


P.S.

Please allow me to give some constructive feedback.

"Getting more popcorn" is synonymous with entertainment and generally flags the subject as being more of entertainment value rather than of any genuine interest to the author.

That observation is borne out by the ringside seats looking for entertainment. Some even have their own popcorn.

[Funchy]

.. .



.

[gunna]

Change your mind Luke ?

[Funchy]

Change your mind Luke ?

Yeah, dead horse and that

[scottar]

Looks like I owe an apology - we will get to that in a minute.

"I'll send you a message where you can have a urinating contest (if that's what you want) without disrupting the guys who want to find out about things, maybe?"

Seems like a perfectly adult way to initiate a private conversation without bias - coupled with the undertones of the pm pointing to academic snobbery, prompted me to simply delete the pm - right alongside the handful of other PM's I had warning me about Ron's modus operandi. It is to those lads I owe the sincere apology. Fellas, I am sorry I didn't listen. I thought I knew better and would give Ronnie the benefit of the doubt as I had no prior contact with him. It won't happen again.

Ronnie,

forum

[ˈfɔːrəm]




NOUN

• a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.
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  synonyms:
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  • a website or web page where users can post comments about a particular issue or topic and reply to other users' postings.
    
    
    
    If you don't want other input, might I suggest an "article".
    
    You Stay Classy San Diego.
    
  
  
  

[gunna]

Nicely said Scottar.

[BR65]

..,,,,,,.......

[gunna]

Go on Brian. You know you want to lol. We’ve seen it all before eh.