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  1. #46

    Re: Technical approach to barra fishing.

    Well, here's one of those barra that all the "informed wisdom" tells you that can't be caught in winter. 114 cm.

    Good size right in middle of town in middle of day.

    Photo courtesy of Fishing Central Qld f/book site https://www.facebook.com/groups/132451282855/



    .114cm barra Fitzroy.jpg

  2. #47

    Re: Technical approach to barra fishing.

    If you cast your mind back to the article about barra lateral lines and the frequency that the lateral line best responds to, you'll recall that the frequency 10 hz (hz means wobbles per second) was the top point reached as the fish's lateral line response drops off after that. Frequency is also know in lure circles as vibration rate (or action repetition rate).

    You'll recall that I observed that I have never seen a lure described as having the frequency/vibration rate/wobble rate/action repetition rate on the packaging. I doubt anybody else has either. I also observed that it was maybe that the lure makers didn't know much about how lateral lines work. I still think that.

    I recently saw a well known lure maker describe a new model hard body lure as having " a higher pitched vibration" than a previous model seemingly indicating that the newer model was going to be more successful.

    I've always thought of that particular older model as a good barramundi lure anyway (if retrieved slowly). Speed up the retrieve and the barra interest seemed to reduce.

    Knowing that the top cut-off point of the lateral line response is "10 wobbles per second" before the response/sensitivity drops off, I reckoned that was why the slower retrieve worked best. Less wobbles per second keeping the vibration frequency under 10 hz.

    If the new model lure has a higher vibration speed, then that was simply taking the wobbles per second rate further beyond the optimum of 10 hz.

    The other thing that I've noticed is that if we want a slower "wobble speed" to match the target's lateral line response, then we need a longer lure NOT a shorter lure. The smaller the lure the faster the "wobble speed"/vibration. A vibration blade (small lure) is a perfect example of that.

    Basically the "wobble speed" is controlled by the bib shape as its the lure's wobble speed engine. The length of the lure then the more resistance that the lure body has to be being pulled sideways in the water column.

    The longer the lure body, then the greater the surface area that has to be pulled sideways. Like a billycan lid.

    Anyway, I went off looking for some quantified research that tested and measured the variables encountered by a lure in the water and the factors affecting the "wobble rate". Like the lack of research on how well colours penetrate dirty water, the wasn't much to be found but I ended up finding some carried out in Japan a few years ago.

    I'm putting together some thoughts about that now and will throw it up shortly.

  3. #48

    Re: Technical approach to barra fishing.

    Lure frequency only works when a lure is moveing but barra hit a lure on the pause so where does frequency come into play?? .

    With all the lures made all over the world a lot of them are made for bass and they seem to work for barra too suspending and pausing and a tight wiggle action have been the right recipe and that was long before someone came up with the 10hz lateral line frequency when researching Barra lateral lines.

  4. #49

    Re: Technical approach to barra fishing.

    Quote Originally Posted by chris69 View Post
    Lure frequency only works when a lure is moveing but barra hit a lure on the pause so where does frequency come into play?? .

    With all the lures made all over the world a lot of them are made for bass and they seem to work for barra too suspending and pausing and a tight wiggle action have been the right recipe and that was long before someone came up with the 10hz lateral line frequency when researching Barra lateral lines.
    The barra is there ....... waiting for a trigger

    The things I have witnessed over the years will blow your mind ...... Gin clear water at Lake Kinchant - a barra mesmerized watching the stalled lure ....... It's nose literally touching the lure - a little move of the lure .... BANG .

    I dont know how many times I've seen barra hit at the back of the boat as the lure is lifted vertically .

    What about landing the lure on a tree / log ... or even tea bag over branch ....... the lure touches / hits the water & BANG

    Dont worry about a lure being paused ....... that barra was there often the second the lure touched down . They are a well attuned fish . ..... a combination of Lateral line , eyesight & night vision

    God I love barra

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  5. #50

    Re: Technical approach to barra fishing.

    A moving lure will send out vibrations to be picked up by the fish's lateral line.

    That allows the fish's lateral line sensors to send data to the fish's brain telling it if the source of the vibration is left or right. That directional information is obtained by the difference between what the sensors on one side pick up compared to what the sensors on the other side pick up.

    If the fish is heading straight towards the lure, the data from each lateral line is equal. Equality of data also occurs if the fish is heading straight away from the moving lure.

    But, if heading towards the lure, the signal is getting stronger so the fish knows that its getting closer. If heading away from the moving lure, the strength is getting weaker so the fish knows that its going the wrong way.

    There's not just one sensor on each side of the fish. There's a line of them on each side. The differences in vibration frequency picked up at one end of the line compared to those picked up at the other end of the line also give going towards/going away data as well as the left/right steering data. Dare I say it but we're really dealing with a highly sophisticated technique of doppler technology in a fish. (look up Doppler).

    The fish's lateral line is a pretty sophisticated tool in its search for food. Basically the lateral line is an underwater direction finder like those used for radio signal interception only this time its used on very low frequency vibrations instead of the very high electromagnetic frequency vibrations of radio.

    Once close enough for the fish's eyes to take over, the barra's excellent vision comes into play. Remember the article talking about a barra's "party trick" eyes?

    How close that has to be depends on the clarity (turbidity) of the water.

    Like Nagg, I've seen barra track my lure in clear water with its nose immediately under and just behind the moving lure. Stop the lure and the barra will simply suspend under/behind the lure until it twitches. Then the barra strikes almost simultaneously.

    The reaction time of the barra in changing direction to keep its nose in the same exact position relative to the lure (which is moving) is phenomenal to see.

    Barra are very well equipped with technology based tools alright. So the better we understand how those tools operate, the better the chance we give ourselves in catching the little buggers.

    Until recently, scientists were basically the only ones who understood how those tools work.

    I'm no scientist but I think I do know how to bridge the the gap between the scientist's explanation and how that explanation translates into "dirty" fish talk for fishermen.

    Researchgate is holding me up a bit releasing the research article on the effect of water flow around a lure moving through the water.

  6. #51

    Re: Technical approach to barra fishing.

    I have been following this thread with interest since I recently started my Bass and Barra trail last month with a mate. Whilst the technical aspects of the fish sensory system are helpfull, I find application of this information in the real life fishing setting very challenging. By way of explanation I fished 4 sessions Callide dam, 4 sessions Lake Awoonga and 10 sessions at Lake Monduran for no results, not even one hit. On the second last day, we conducted a small case (my mate) control (me) study by using the same lure but a different action within 5 metres of each other. I used combination twitching/slow roll with no suspension and my mate used a faster return and suspension for 10 seconds after 5 quicker rolls of reel. All other variables, we were both using Jackall Squirrel lures boney or pink eye suzi (except line colour) for each cast. He had 5 hits and landed 4 and I had no hits. In my view, the only other reasonable explanation for the different strike rate was due to the minor difference of location (unlikely) and more likely probability (chance). In the end, I still believe hit rate comes down to only minor variations in lure retrieval technique and chance. Cheers SS

    Sent from my LG-H815 using Ausfish mobile app

  7. #52

    Re: Technical approach to barra fishing.

    That's the way. Do some trials.

    I use really slow roll with pauses all the time. I don't jerk or twitch at all. Slow roll slows down the vibration rate of the lure closer to the magical 10 "wobbles per sec" rate.

    Keeps the "here's dinner" signal constant without the erratic signals emanating from a jerk/twitch/stabbing retrieve. A constant steady signal is easier to hear, easier to find and easier for the barra to attack than one that is all over the place.

    There is no infallible technique. All I'm showing is the principles behind how a lure works and how a barra uses its tools to get a feed.

    So if you understand those things and how best to utilise them, you increase yr chances.

    Nothing is black or white in fishing circles.

    That was why I set out down the technical approach path. Like most people I followed the myth, expert explanations and old stories line for a while until I worked out that a lot of it was b/s.

    I'm not suggesting that people throw out their established methods in favour of my info.

    What I'm suggesting is that people take on board the technical reasons why some things are as they are. Question the myth and age-old reasons some of which (upon looking closely at) have no foundation. Find out the real reason why something is so and things start to fall into place. Look at the old gold bomber catch rate story. That turned out NOT to be myth once some facts about colour were revealed.

    I don't get a fish on every cast. Far from it. But now that I understand those 2 basics a lot better, my catch rate has improved.

    I still believe hit rate comes down to only minor variations in lure retrieval technique and chance. Cheers SS

    Sometimes those "minor" variations have profound effects. Chance is luck. The more time spent on the water the luckier one gets.

  8. #53

    Re: Technical approach to barra fishing.

    Quote Originally Posted by seastrength View Post
    I have been following this thread with interest since I recently started my Bass and Barra trail last month with a mate. Whilst the technical aspects of the fish sensory system are helpfull, I find application of this information in the real life fishing setting very challenging. By way of explanation I fished 4 sessions Callide dam, 4 sessions Lake Awoonga and 10 sessions at Lake Monduran for no results, not even one hit. On the second last day, we conducted a small case (my mate) control (me) study by using the same lure but a different action within 5 metres of each other. I used combination twitching/slow roll with no suspension and my mate used a faster return and suspension for 10 seconds after 5 quicker rolls of reel. All other variables, we were both using Jackall Squirrel lures boney or pink eye suzi (except line colour) for each cast. He had 5 hits and landed 4 and I had no hits. In my view, the only other reasonable explanation for the different strike rate was due to the minor difference of location (unlikely) and more likely probability (chance). In the end, I still believe hit rate comes down to only minor variations in lure retrieval technique and chance. Cheers SS

    Sent from my LG-H815 using Ausfish mobile app
    There may be even more to it ...... I've seen one side of the boat outfish the other side when both anglers are casting to a point - this could boil down to angles & the way a lure works with a current ( yes there are currents that form) . or the way the fish are sitting in that current . One example was we had a location where barra were sitting on a bankside stick (not much more than a stick ) - land the lure on the right & you got fish ..... land it on the left - nothing. ..... nothing to do with retrieve , lure etc as the fish were hitting on touchdown in 2 ft of water.
    Cadence in the retrieve or the reel ratio / spool diameter ....... I've experienced days that a spin outfit dominated against a baitcaster fishing the same soft plastic & vice versa .

    not so straight forward

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  9. #54

    Re: Technical approach to barra fishing.

    Little bit on hard body lure as action measured by a couple of guys who seemed to know what they're doing.

    Its not the actual numbers that are important in this. Its the principles.

    Slow the retrieve down, speed the retrieve up, troll one way as opposed to trolling the other.

    Which types of lures vibrate more or vibrate less than others.? What sorts of vibrations do they produce? Short lures vs longer lures in the lateral line vibration stakes.

    Take the principles outlined and look at them in the light of your own experiences. You might agree with some. Some might throw more light on what you've found that works. Some might not.

    But don't dismiss them out of hand. Think about them before doing that.

    At least you're being exposed to a different way of looking at a subject that has traditionally been full of myth, mistakes, false claims, egos and good old b/s at times.

    I don't fish in impoundments much. Maybe 5-6 times over 25 years.

    There are enough wild barra here to keep me occupied. However, I acknowledge that its hard for some to look for wild barra where they are, so impoundments are the "go".

    I've gotten a few barramundi over the years in sufficient numbers to look closely at what works and what doesn't work (for me anyway). In more recent years I've turned that into what's wrong with what we've all been lead to believe when it doesn't seem to make sense with what we're finding.

    Technical aspects of lure vibration.pdf

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