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  1. #61

    Re: Corona Fishing Advice March 2020

    I think you guys are right, it's just ambiguous enough to deter most people. And if you push the limits you'll be fined, but it depends perhaps on who's interpretation on the day. crazy times

    Sunday is looking good though... and the kids are restless!

  2. #62
    Ausfish Addict disorderly's Avatar
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    Sep 2006
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    Re: Corona Fishing Advice March 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by NAGG View Post

    In lot's of way's I'm feeling that the authorities are deliberately keeping the regulations ambiguous ….. to either deter people from going out or enabling police to issue infringements

    Chris
    Probably both..there will always be people that push the boundaries though....It would be a thankless job for the cops right now though wouldnt it....my 18 yr old sons mate was buzzing around the beaches here the other day on his new Jetski but the cops shut that down real quick..I cant even fathom what he was thinking but the cops must see some really dumb stuff I reckon...

  3. #63

    Re: Corona Fishing Advice March 2020

    Don't you think that the authorities owe it to us to release an unambiguous protocol when it comes to fishing - particularly a definition of what is local .

    i'm still seeing a heap of anglers who are (in my mind) taking the piss . towing their boats 50/60/70kms to go offshore fishing for marlin & tuna. They believe that living in the western suburbs their local - means "Botany Bay" ….. that's akin to someone saying that traveling Ipswich to the Gold Coast or Fishermans Is is local . These blokes are putting up their photos etc ….. so much even for social distancing when clearly there are more than two people & they are not family living under the same roof.

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  4. #64

    Re: Corona Fishing Advice March 2020

    For what its worth, here's a Qld'ers take on the Covid laws in Aus.

    Firstly, the Fed Govt has no constitutional powers on delivery of health services Aus wide. THAT power lies with each of the States and ONLY within that State's borders. The only thing the Fed Govt can do is REQUEST the States to make certain "laws" that coincide with the Fed Govts advice.

    A National Cabinet was formed of Feds, States Premiers and each State's Chief Health Officer plus the Fed CHO.

    The Cabinet agrees on steps that the State's can undertake to act on the PM's advice who is advised by the Fed CHO.

    The premiers smile sweetly, nod in agreement and then go home where the State's introduce different State of Emergency Orders and Health Directions.

    THAT'S why the States have different "rules" about what citizens can or can't do.

    Here are Qld's Heath Directions issued by the Qld Chief Health Office (Dr Jeanette Young).

    There are 16 of them and they can be found here:https://www.health.qld.gov.au/system...lth-act-powers

    The Directions are confusing as they were written in a hurry with not so much detailed thought into what exactly the provisions were or should be.

    For example...Fishing.....seems like it was banned as it wasn't specifically mention in the Dr Young's Health Directions.

    In fact the General Manager of Maritime Safety Qld ( part of Qld Transport) went into public print telling all Qld'ers that fishing was indeed banned.

    That statement didn't last long (a couple of hours) before the Minister for Transport went public and withdrew the General Manager's statement.

    It had been pointed out to the Minister that "obtaining food" WAS allowed by Dr Young's Health Direction. People engaging in fishing were attempting to obtain food. If they went off to obtain food themselves by catching it in a boat then that was exactly the same as somebody who went in a car to a shop to obtain food by paying for it (instead of catching it).

    The Minister had also been bombarded by the public reaction to such a ban proclaimed by a junior public servant drunk with apparent power and a political storm like that was the last thing the Qld Govt needed or wanted with an election coming up in a few months.

    One thing that was in Dr Young's directions were words to the effect " to the extent reasonably necessary" which meant don't drive from Brisbane to Caloundra to obtain food from a shop. Similarly don't drive from Rockhampton to Gladstone to obtain food by fishing. Use "local destinations" to obtain food hence local boat ramps and local shops.

    What's exacerbated the confusion is that media doesn't distinguish between States in reporting stuff so what the media is reporting won't necessarily be what's applicable in your State anyway.

    Its the same mess as the Murray Darling Basin Plan where the Fed Govt has no jurisdictional power to legislate. Only the States have that power so the Feds had to convince the States to "sign up" to a common plan and look how that's turned out. ANY State that has signed up can withdraw at any time at which time the MDBPlan collapses.

    Ditto with the strategy agreed to by the State's in respect of Covid 19.

    What the State's agreed to at the National Cabinet meetings was "refined" upon arrival home by local state issues so were different.

    Dr Young's Health Directions (16 of them I think) are Qld's bible for the "rules" that apply so Qld'ers...take note of them.

    Similary for other States. Look at YOUR State's "rules" as they'll be different from Qld's and the others.

    Even the People's Republic of Victoria has its own. So has the People's Republic of the Northern Territory. (Both have signed up to parts of China's Belt and Road global "assistance" initiatives).

    By and large they've all done a pretty good job in containing the spread and there'll always be hiccups in something put together so fast.

    IMO this virus will be more remembered for the economic disruption that its caused rather than the health and medical problems associated with it.

    Now that our economy has been reduced to a very basi, at least we have the opportunity to "recalibrate" our views about self-sufficiency, Aus manufacturing, national security and what we now can or can't afford in the years ahead.

    Also good to see that with the world's oil price (particularly US produced oil) so low now, Aus has taken the opportunity to improve our national oil/fuel reserves which Fed Govts of both persuasions have allowed to be run down to ill-advised levels.

  5. #65

    Re: Corona Fishing Advice March 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronje1 View Post
    For what its worth, here's a Qld'ers take on the Covid laws in Aus.

    Firstly, the Fed Govt has no constitutional powers on delivery of health services Aus wide. THAT power lies with each of the States and ONLY within that State's borders. The only thing the Fed Govt can do is REQUEST the States to make certain "laws" that coincide with the Fed Govts advice.

    A National Cabinet was formed of Feds, States Premiers and each State's Chief Health Officer plus the Fed CHO.

    The Cabinet agrees on steps that the State's can undertake to act on the PM's advice who is advised by the Fed CHO.

    The premiers smile sweetly, nod in agreement and then go home where the State's introduce different State of Emergency Orders and Health Directions.

    THAT'S why the States have different "rules" about what citizens can or can't do.

    Here are Qld's Heath Directions issued by the Qld Chief Health Office (Dr Jeanette Young).

    There are 16 of them and they can be found here:https://www.health.qld.gov.au/system...lth-act-powers

    The Directions are confusing as they were written in a hurry with not so much detailed thought into what exactly the provisions were or should be.

    For example...Fishing.....seems like it was banned as it wasn't specifically mention in the Dr Young's Health Directions.

    In fact the General Manager of Maritime Safety Qld ( part of Qld Transport) went into public print telling all Qld'ers that fishing was indeed banned.

    That statement didn't last long (a couple of hours) before the Minister for Transport went public and withdrew the General Manager's statement.

    It had been pointed out to the Minister that "obtaining food" WAS allowed by Dr Young's Health Direction. People engaging in fishing were attempting to obtain food. If they went off to obtain food themselves by catching it in a boat then that was exactly the same as somebody who went in a car to a shop to obtain food by paying for it (instead of catching it).

    The Minister had also been bombarded by the public reaction to such a ban proclaimed by a junior public servant drunk with apparent power and a political storm like that was the last thing the Qld Govt needed or wanted with an election coming up in a few months.

    One thing that was in Dr Young's directions were words to the effect " to the extent reasonably necessary" which meant don't drive from Brisbane to Caloundra to obtain food from a shop. Similarly don't drive from Rockhampton to Gladstone to obtain food by fishing. Use "local destinations" to obtain food hence local boat ramps and local shops.

    What's exacerbated the confusion is that media doesn't distinguish between States in reporting stuff so what the media is reporting won't necessarily be what's applicable in your State anyway.

    Its the same mess as the Murray Darling Basin Plan where the Fed Govt has no jurisdictional power to legislate. Only the States have that power so the Feds had to convince the States to "sign up" to a common plan and look how that's turned out. ANY State that has signed up can withdraw at any time at which time the MDBPlan collapses.

    Ditto with the strategy agreed to by the State's in respect of Covid 19.

    What the State's agreed to at the National Cabinet meetings was "refined" upon arrival home by local state issues so were different.

    Dr Young's Health Directions (16 of them I think) are Qld's bible for the "rules" that apply so Qld'ers...take note of them.

    Similary for other States. Look at YOUR State's "rules" as they'll be different from Qld's and the others.

    Even the People's Republic of Victoria has its own. So has the People's Republic of the Northern Territory. (Both have signed up to parts of China's Belt and Road global "assistance" initiatives).

    By and large they've all done a pretty good job in containing the spread and there'll always be hiccups in something put together so fast.

    IMO this virus will be more remembered for the economic disruption that its caused rather than the health and medical problems associated with it.

    Now that our economy has been reduced to a very basi, at least we have the opportunity to "recalibrate" our views about self-sufficiency, Aus manufacturing, national security and what we now can or can't afford in the years ahead.

    Also good to see that with the world's oil price (particularly US produced oil) so low now, Aus has taken the opportunity to improve our national oil/fuel reserves which Fed Govts of both persuasions have allowed to be run down to ill-advised levels.
    Sensible explanation, thanks.

    And you’ve also made a,pretty compelling argument for getting rid of State Governments! Would remove all this duplication and different interpretation that costs absolute bucketloads when you multiple every decision at National level x 7 State and Territory jurisdictions.

    “To the extent reasonably necessary” is going to be the area where Police and subsequently the Courts (if a fine is contested) are going to have to make judgement calls.

    And I think you are right - the things that will guide them in making that determination will be questions like “would you reasonably travel that far to get other food?”, although the basis for fishing was on 2 grounds if I recall correctly - obtaining food AND getting exercise.

    If the Police or the Magistrate form the view that you are taking the piss, pushing the boundary too far or being overly creative in your interpretation of what is “reasonably necessary”, then they will likely fine you.

    For those who know how the law works, there is something called the “reasonable person test” in common law, and actual legal precedent exists on what that means.

    The Police know about this, and the Courts certainly know about it. What it means is basically that the decision on whether an accused is guilty of a given offence involves the application of an objective test in which the conduct of the accused is compared to that of a theoretical reasonable person under similar circumstances.

    But anyway, lets hope that some of these restrictions are eased further soon. Really, provided you maintain the social distancing stuff, what actual risk of spreading or catching the virus is there from going fishing outside your immediate “local area” anyway?
    Note to self: Don't argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience....

  6. #66

    Re: Corona Fishing Advice March 2020

    Moonlighter I think if someone came from another area and was A symptomatic they can spread it without knowing it so it's a case of keep your germs in your own area ,this can bring it in to some were just from filling up a boat and getting ice at the servo to have a fish.

  7. #67

    Re: Corona Fishing Advice March 2020

    I guess that the "reasonable person test" would first be used by the officer contemplating an infringement notice in determining if there were reasonable grounds for the officer to believe that an infringement notice offence had been committed. Insufficient reasonable grounds to believe...then no valid infringement notice can be issued. Suspecting isn't a sufficient standard of grounds.

    Mostly the alleged offender assists an officer in arriving at that reasonable belief decision by communicating unnecessarily.

    Hard to believe that one could be so isolated in some fishing destinations and be thought of as acting contrary to directions aimed at preventing spread of a contagious disease.

    The actual offence isn't fishing or boating. Its actually failing to comply with a direction (in this instance undertaking non-essential travel).

  8. #68

    Re: Corona Fishing Advice March 2020

    If the post about a police officers actually issuing a fine based on not residing in a post code area starting with 45.. at Donnybrook is in fact true , I wonder whether the officers were actually briefed to do this , and if those briefing that direction to proceed were actually aware that this region stretches from Bray Park in the south to INSKIP POINT in the north . I suppose boundaries using post code to define where you can permissibly fish is actually and improvement on the word ‘Local’ - at least if gives a definitive area in which you can fish . Let’s hope the lock down is relaxed sometime soon and we can all go back to fishing in our usually hunting and gathering grounds safely .
    Keep Ya Tip UP
    Beast

  9. #69

    Re: Corona Fishing Advice March 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by chris69 View Post
    Moonlighter I think if someone came from another area and was A symptomatic they can spread it without knowing it so it's a case of keep your germs in your own area ,this can bring it in to some were just from filling up a boat and getting ice at the servo to have a fish.
    Most of us fill with fuel and ice before leaving home, do so again when home again.

    Ive done many trips from bayside to Mooloolaba for example and the only time we got out of the car on the trip was to launch and retrieve the boat at the ramp.

    Anyway, a stop at a petrol station to fill up and grab ice doesnt involve constant contact with another person for 10 minutes or more, which is what the experts say is the time required to be at significant risk to spreading it.
    Note to self: Don't argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience....

  10. #70

    Re: Corona Fishing Advice March 2020

    I just got a phone call to say that the spiniker sound boat ramp is over flowing, so much for the restrictions weather's good and cabin fever has set in.

  11. #71

    Re: Corona Fishing Advice March 2020

    same , the seas are very smooth at the moment , only barracouta choppin up .. went to batemans bay boat ramp today for a geeza , certainly a lot a A.C.T registered vehicles there .

  12. #72

    Re: Corona Fishing Advice March 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by chris69 View Post
    Moonlighter I think if someone came from another area and was A symptomatic they can spread it without knowing it so it's a case of keep your germs in your own area ,this can bring it in to some were just from filling up a boat and getting ice at the servo to have a fish.
    Unfortunately at my local ramp there are enough locals that still want to wash their boats and clean their fish at the tables ignoring the advice of get in, get out. I now go home to do all of the above but there arr a selfish few.

  13. #73

    Re: Corona Fishing Advice March 2020

    I called donnybrook bait shop and they said the police had done several rounds today, I then rang caboolture police and they said they had not been directed to fine people, my local member said it was ok to go fishing, the premiers office said it was fine, so im going...

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