Should I cut the loom or not

[seastrength]

Hi Ausfishers

Seeking advice or opinions regarding the electrical fitout 2015 alloy plate boat. Recently I had a data problem with my Suzuki gauge. After a chance encounter with a fellow Suzuki owner at the boat ramp I realised my round gauge was not compatible with the 2015 DF150TGX model with fly by wire control. The older gauge was designed to record NMEA data from the DF150 base model only. Without going into details, the local dealer and Suzuki agreed to replace the gauge with the correct multifunction gauge under warranty. All good until my next fishing day when I discovered the trim tabs were not working. No power to the tab control panel. Checked all connections and fuses without noting any problem. Both tab control panel and the new gauge are next to each other on the cockpit dash so I am thinking there has to be a problem with the electrical fitout. Not my skillset so back to Suzuki for help. I am advised that the NMEA wiring to the control panel needs a major overhaul. The looms are all zip tied / bunched together in a ball and the weight of the ball is bouncing in heavy seas and is likely to loosen connections between controls for the tabs, ignition and throttle binacle over time. Best practice is to secure the NMEA T junctions to a custom board screwed to the alloy dash panel.This will take a week and seems quite a few dollars. What to do now? My brother is a mining engineer and he says they never cut / shorten electrical looms in their industry as they are easier to replace if kept intact. Also more junctions mean more things to go wrong. I have secured the ball with six more zip ties and there is no more movement under load. Is it okay to leave it and see how things go or should I consider a complete rewire?

Thanks for any suggestions from members. SS20200229_072103.jpg20200229_072122.jpg20200229_072221.jpg20200229_073449.jpg20200229_072055.jpg

Sent from my LG-H815 using Ausfish mobile app

[scottar]

Hi Ausfishers

Seeking advice or opinions regarding the electrical fitout 2015 alloy plate boat. Recently I had a data problem with my Suzuki gauge. After a chance encounter with a fellow Suzuki owner at the boat ramp I realised my round gauge was not compatible with the 2015 DF150TGX model with fly by wire control. The older gauge was designed to record NMEA data from the DF150 base model only. Without going into details, the local dealer and Suzuki agreed to replace the gauge with the correct multifunction gauge under warranty. All good until my next fishing day when I discovered the trim tabs were not working. No power to the tab control panel. Checked all connections and fuses without noting any problem. Both tab control panel and the new gauge are next to each other on the cockpit dash so I am thinking there has to be a problem with the electrical fitout. Not my skillset so back to Suzuki for help. I am advised that the NMEA wiring to the control panel needs a major overhaul. The looms are all zip tied / bunched together in a ball and the weight of the ball is bouncing in heavy seas and is likely to loosen connections between controls for the tabs, ignition and throttle binacle over time. Best practice is to secure the NMEA T junctions to a custom board screwed to the alloy dash panel.This will take a week and seems quite a few dollars. What to do now? My brother is a mining engineer and he says they never cut / shorten electrical looms in their industry as they are easier to replace if kept intact. Also more junctions mean more things to go wrong. I have secured the ball with six more zip ties and there is no more movement under load. Is it okay to leave it and see how things go or should I consider a complete rewire?

Thanks for any suggestions from members. SS20200229_072103.jpg20200229_072122.jpg20200229_072221.jpg20200229_073449.jpg20200229_072055.jpg

Sent from my LG-H815 using Ausfish mobile app

Yeah. That's a shit fight. Tees should be secured and then the cables leading to them anchored as well. I can see one tee there that looks like it's bent already - good recipe for gear that won't work at best or damaged at worst. My vote would be for a full tidy up. Joins done properly don't concern me in the slightest but if there is somewhere to hide excess cable without cutting that will be the best option. Most boats have coils under the gunwale with engine looms etc. Hard part with tin is not being able to put screws into it without seeing them from the other side. Sometimes the easiest option is get a sheet or strips of starboard and secure it behind the dash through use of any fasteners that hold accessories - even fully backing the dash and cutting the holes for accessories into it if required - depends if you want screw heads visible and the amount of work you want to go to. Another option is to glue in sealed strips of timber ( nothing sticks to starboard well enough) with Sika or similar to allow cable tie mounts to be screwed into place. Don't bother with mounts that use two sided tape - absolute garbage.

[EdBerg]

Who ever did the wiring/zip tying of the NMEA T Joints (PIC 5) , should give away their tools and seek a different job as that is atrocious and they should know better, if not then pay someone who knows what they are doing. If that was a paid "professional" who did it I would get them to replace the T joints at their expense. Sorry if that seems harsh but that is not acceptable.

[seastrength]

Who ever did the wiring/zip tying of the NMEA T Joints (PIC 5) , should give away their tools and seek a different job as that is atrocious and they should know better, if not then pay someone who knows what they are doing. If that was a paid "professional" who did it I would get them to replace the T joints at their expense. Sorry if that seems harsh but that is not acceptable.

Thanks guys for your unbiased comments. I just needed to be sure of my ground before I take the issue up with the boat builder. It is interesting that Suzuki northside did the original engine fit out and Suzuki southside have highlighted the problem. The weight of the wiring loom clearly caused the trim tab control connection to fail so it is clear to me that other electric systems are at risk as well. I also believe the trim tab manufacturer has identified this connection problem as the replacement switch kit is a much stronger and better supported design. However, I am now $800 out of pocket from this exercise. SS20200229_145803.jpg20200229_144631.jpg20200229_144645.jpg20200229_150100.jpg

Sent from my LG-H815 using Ausfish mobile app

[Dignity]

The RH Tee is totally floating free. As Scottar says I'd be looking at attaching something to allow you to secure the wiring. I see one bracket that has looms running through it (in the third image http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/att...2&d=1582936122), is there another, if so you could span these with any material and use that to secure your wiring or use that to minimise other attachments. Unfortunately being a 2015 fit out you don't have a comeback unless there were changes recently incorporated either with the GP or Sounder unit, then you might have some chance but these days most unlikely.

[Dignity]

Where that bracket is that I mentioned there is appears to be a vertical (or horizontal, depending on camera angle) strut that would easily accept some ally angle or a sheet of ally bent to suit and screwed into it. The sheet ally could have some seaboard secured to it or just lots of holes through which you could run small zippy ties.

[scottar]

Thanks guys for your unbiased comments. I just needed to be sure of my ground before I take the issue up with the boat builder. It is interesting that Suzuki northside did the original engine fit out and Suzuki southside have highlighted the problem. The weight of the wiring loom clearly caused the trim tab control connection to fail so it is clear to me that other electric systems are at risk as well. I also believe the trim tab manufacturer has identified this connection problem as the replacement switch kit is a much stronger and better supported design. However, I am now $800 out of pocket from this exercise. SS20200229_145803.jpg20200229_144631.jpg20200229_144645.jpg20200229_150100.jpg

Sent from my LG-H815 using Ausfish mobile app

What you have with that trim tab switch is the primary reason I was not a fan of Lenco. Seen it a few times now. Usually the pins stay in the assembly and the plug can be put back into place and they will continue to function but the cable will need to be supported to stop the plug falling off. The new control is an all in one and doesn't suffer from the same issue. Yes - other systems will be at risk with the weight of the loom hanging on cables and movement. Tees not being secured adequately can lead to broken ones which typically lead to open or short circuit faults - seen a few of those too. The best method is to screw them to a FLAT surface and then use tie mounts to secure each drop cable so the row of tees can't be torqued in any way. The tees must be from the same manufacturer - Lowrance (Suzuki) tees have a different alignment to Garmin tees. They will work electrically but can not be screwed down. Tees can at a pinch be cable tie mounted but care must be exercised to ensure alignment - making sure the loom or structure they are tied to is straight and that the drops do not pull any branches on an angle. The ties mustn't be done up too tight or the backbone connections will torqued. Unfortunately electrical in a lot of trailer boats to this day is similar to what you have. It's purely a cost driven outcome. Doing it neatly does take a lot more time - a standard sort of boat front to back will take me the best part of 2-3 full days to sort out and neaten up. Take it to the next level and a working week can disappear without too much effort.

[seastrength]

What you have with that trim tab switch is the primary reason I was not a fan of Lenco. Seen it a few times now. Usually the pins stay in the assembly and the plug can be put back into place and they will continue to function but the cable will need to be supported to stop the plug falling off. The new control is an all in one and doesn't suffer from the same issue. Yes - other systems will be at risk with the weight of the loom hanging on cables and movement. Tees not being secured adequately can lead to broken ones which typically lead to open or short circuit faults - seen a few of those too. The best method is to screw them to a FLAT surface and then use tie mounts to secure each drop cable so the row of tees can't be torqued in any way. The tees must be from the same manufacturer - Lowrance (Suzuki) tees have a different alignment to Garmin tees. They will work electrically but can not be screwed down. Tees can at a pinch be cable tie mounted but care must be exercised to ensure alignment - making sure the loom or structure they are tied to is straight and that the drops do not pull any branches on an angle. The ties mustn't be done up too tight or the backbone connections will torqued. Unfortunately electrical in a lot of trailer boats to this day is similar to what you have. It's purely a cost driven outcome. Doing it neatly does take a lot more time - a standard sort of boat front to back will take me the best part of 2-3 full days to sort out and neaten up. Take it to the next level and a working week can disappear without too much effort.

Thanks Scottar and Dignity for taking the time to explain a solution to this problem. Much appreciated. SS

Sent from my LG-H815 using Ausfish mobile app

[Dignity]

What you have with that trim tab switch is the primary reason I was not a fan of Lenco. Seen it a few times now. Usually the pins stay in the assembly and the plug can be put back into place and they will continue to function but the cable will need to be supported to stop the plug falling off. The new control is an all in one and doesn't suffer from the same issue.

And the circuitry is all open and exposed to the elements. I used self amalgamating tape to hold the cables in place and also seal off the whole system. Took a bit of effort but I think worth it in the end.

[Spaniard_King]

Anyone doing NMEA installs should know that warranty will be void on any tee not screwed down and is the most common issue with nmea 2000 faults, Multi port connectors should be used where more than 3 tee connectors are required.

[seastrength]

Quick update for members. Spoke with the builder and fitout technician and all agreed to a complimentary redesign and fitout of NMEA backbone, Suzuki gauge and trim tab loom wiring. Approximately 2-3 hours work and replacement backbone now well secured to the aluminium box frame. Suzuki antenna now mounted on dashboard to improve GPS reception. All electrical systems checked and in working order. Hope this is the end of this saga. Any further thoughts appreciated. Warranty will expire in August.

Photo 1 old kinked Suzuki backbone removed. Photo 2 new secured Suzuki backbone. Photo 3 separate Raymarine backone for MFD. Photo 4 separate wiring for trim tab swich. Photo 5 remaining electrical looms uncut secured to console.

Cheers SS.20200323_133151.jpg20200325_153918.jpg20200325_153936.jpg20200325_153953.jpg20200325_154001.jpg

Sent from my LG-H815 using Ausfish mobile app