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Thread: electrickery help needed

  1. #181

    Re: electrickery help needed

    The video guy would do a lot better using an iron with a chisel shaped flat tip, about 10mm diameter is a good size for most stuff. Hold the flat of the tip under the wire, flood a bubble of solder onto the level flat then wait until it sucks the solder up and add a little bit more solder until it looks perfect. Remove the iron without moving the wires, the joint should look like chrome, if it looks flat grey then remelt and tweak it with a little more solder.

  2. #182

    Re: electrickery help needed

    deleted post

  3. #183

    Re: electrickery help needed

    I agree with Fed. That video while gave some hints was way too generic and didn't offer sufficient info esp in relation to the tip. I used a combination of 2 of those methods, been mentioned before so won't go into it.

  4. #184

    Re: electrickery help needed

    deleted post

  5. #185

    Re: electrickery help needed

    Good luck on the soldering and even more so on delivery on your new soldering station, they free your hands up. I'm supposed to have 2 parcels delivered back on 30 March, one I've tracked down as being at Tweed Heads for the last 3 days, not sure why, no idea where the other one is. Rather surprising as I'd ordered some cryovac rolls a week after the other 2 orders and they arrived from Melbourne 2 days later via a closed border.

  6. #186

    Re: electrickery help needed

    deleted poat

  7. #187

    Re: electrickery help needed

    If you're having trouble joining 2 cables together because you need 4 hands here's what I do.

    Twist then securely together then use 2 hands to solder.

    Now the problem is that the twists aren't real stable.

    Solution, twist them together as you would if you were going to put them both in a terminal.

    Now the problem is when you fold down the soldered connection flat it lays on the insulation and form an ugly lump.

    Solution, strip one wire twice as long then twist the ENDS at equal lengths then fold the twist down onto the extra bit of stripped wire. Then go around it with your pliers and 'dress' the joint and you will find it has all come back to being very close to the size & profile of the original insulated wire.

    Then solder with 2 free hands, look & feel for any sharpies & dress with pliers if needed.

    This sounds long & convoluted but it takes about 30 seconds to prepare a stable joint for solder.

    Strip, strip, twist, lay down, dress, solder.

    I strip one wire at 1 Cm and the other at 2 Cm then trim the twist when laying so it fits lengthwise against the piece of spare stripped wire.

  8. #188
    Ausfish Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Kalbarri, WA

    Re: electrickery help needed

    I haven't read the whole thread, but the principle of soldered joints is that you are not relying solely on the solder the hold the joint together, ie, there should be some mechanical strength in the joint itself before you solder. Same with soldering to a terminal--they should have a hole through them, to pass the wire through before soldering.
    I solder everything I can , always have. Even wet the ends of wire with solder which are to be put into screw terminals , particularly with fine-stranded wire. For actually joining wires, my approach is a little different to Feds, but the basic principle is the same. I strip to equal lengths of bare, say, 20mm or a bit less if we are looking at wires of up to 2.5mm2. More if larger. Don't twist the stripped ends up before you try to join--if anything flatten or fan them slightly. Then twist them together and they will be close to original diameter . If your fingers aren't strong enough, or the wire is larger, you can use pliers to dress it up. And remember to slide your heat shrink on first . Slide the heat shrink on as far away from the hot area as you can, glued is best for marine work. Hold the iron on top of the joint, solder onto iron, and run solder down onto the joint intially. This gives you a quicker heat transfer. Then you should be able to melt the solder by holding it onto the wire itself, the molten solder should flow along the strands visibly. All this needs to be done in a minimum of time to limit heat transfer along the wire which can damage the insulation. An iron which is not large enough for the job will actually cause more heat damage--you have to hold it on for longer, allowing the heat to travel further up the wire before you can get it hot enough to solder. If you are soldering close to sensitive components, use a set of long-nose pliers as a heat shrink between the soldered joint and the component.

    I even solder the lugs on Andersen plugs , even though I have a hydraulic crimper. I crimp first, then hang the lugs down, open end up. To get quickest heat transfer, I actually use a Mapp gas torch. This may seem extreme, but actually works well if you have the room. Have your solder ready with a long tail, flash the torch briefly (prob 3 sec max) on the bottom end of the lug, touch the solder to the open end. it should start to melt. If not, another second or two with the torch. The solder will run in, just keep feeding it until the lug is full. You may need to flash it again with the torch during this, max once. Then quickly dip the ends in cold water to stop heat transfer and insulation damge. Do it right, you won't damage the tinning on the lug or damage insulation.
    HTH

  9. #189

    Re: electrickery help needed

    Ranmar do you twist then like a coat hanger and fold them down or twist them along their length which I find is sort of half baked and not very secure.
    Having the wires mechanically secure while working upside down hanging by your balls while soldering is the key in my books.
    I don't know if it's been previously mentioned blacklab but some of the new solders don't solder very well.
    I think it's something to do with lead free or tin free or whatever, last time I went looking at Bunnings I was hit with a multitude of choices and walked out scratching my head.
    I think I use 60/40 lead/tin and one I got from bunnings was like soldering slag.

  10. #190

    Re: electrickery help needed

    deleted post

  11. #191

    Re: electrickery help needed

    So,Fed, if I have got this right, your saying to strip off the wire, one slightly longer, twist the two wires together, then fold down onto the extra stripped piece. I see how that will assist in mechanically holding as well and not relying on the solder..... And in all honesty holds together way better to solder...
    You've got it.

    My method so far, has been to put the iron on the bottom of the join, with a little solder, which does suck up, then put the solder on top of the join and let it flow in,,,
    That's exactly what I do.

    The reason for the extra stripping is to make space to lay the twist down then go around it with your pliers to squeeze it into a circular shape.

    Hot flat iron surface and a bit of solder to help the heat transfer into the copper wire then the wire should eat the solder as quick as you can feed it on.

    Keep at it mate.

  12. #192

    Re: electrickery help needed

    deleted post

  13. #193

    Re: electrickery help needed

    So many ways to skin a cat with the mechanical connection prior to soldering. I do use a few different ones but it is primarily based on the required diameter of the finished job, how much room I have to work and if it is likely that it will need to removable without bringing out the cutters.

    If diameter is going to be an issue (has to be run through a small hole etc) I use a technique similar to that mentioned by Ranmar where the wires are fanned and then twisted into one mass.

    If I am after mechanical strength and space isn't really an issue, I strip out the required length (depends on cable diameter), twist the wires together, make initial contact about half way along the stripped section and then make sure both wires are twisted around the other one. If you just twist one aroun the other, they will slide apart. If they are both twisted around the other, they will not seperate without some degree of force being applied. This is the most commonly used method. If your wire is clean, the solder will flow without issue.

    60:40 lead/tin solder is the stuff you want. The new lead free stuff is shit. It takes a lot more heat to melt it properly and the results still look like shit.

  14. #194

    Re: electrickery help needed

    Quote Originally Posted by blacklab View Post
    It can be frustrating waiting for the posty some times Sam.
    I remember I bought one of those down riggers, a billet made one from the down rigger shop in NSW, it was 2 weeks away from me heading off fishing, well bugga me, that down rigger, went via Adelaide, back to Sydney, but wait, back to Adelade then to Melbourne, arrived a day before I left on the fishing trip, I had to laugh in the end............ and Yep, sometimes, it's super quick, go figure..

    Col
    Yep, mine looks like doing the same, came up from Melbourne, crossed 2 borders, got to Redbank Qld then has headed back to Tweed Heads, NSW. I figure it's going to Golden Beach first. Sent AP an enquiry so hopefully can circumvent that.

  15. #195

    Re: electrickery help needed

    Quote Originally Posted by scottar View Post
    So many ways to skin a cat with the mechanical connection prior to soldering. I do use a few different ones but it is primarily based on the required diameter of the finished job, how much room I have to work and if it is likely that it will need to removable without bringing out the cutters.

    If diameter is going to be an issue (has to be run through a small hole etc) I use a technique similar to that mentioned by Ranmar where the wires are fanned and then twisted into one mass.

    If I am after mechanical strength and space isn't really an issue, I strip out the required length (depends on cable diameter), twist the wires together, make initial contact about half way along the stripped section and then make sure both wires are twisted around the other one. If you just twist one aroun the other, they will slide apart. If they are both twisted around the other, they will not seperate without some degree of force being applied. This is the most commonly used method. If your wire is clean, the solder will flow without issue.

    60:40 lead/tin solder is the stuff you want. The new lead free stuff is shit. It takes a lot more heat to melt it properly and the results still look like shit.
    Col, you'll find your new soldering station a godsend. My main method us still fan both ends push together and twist as others but I still then get a very fine wire stripped from excess cable and wrap it around fairly tightly although you have to be careful as it breaks easily being so fine. This does help keep the joint together and does stop any ends sticking up, I don't understand why cable does it but that is my solution. One thing about your joins are that you are changing yhe resistance of the cable, not critical in most boat wiring but as some of the more modern electronics hit the market they start getting sensitive to these sort if things and start to go haywire. Big bully joints will give you voltage drop, not much but as mentioned can cause mayhem. Electrical current actually runs around the surface of a cable, one reason why 12 volt cable wires are finer than say 240volt wires. Have a look at the cable from your typical welder to the earth clamp or welding rod, very fine wires to ensure you have maximum current. Big solder joints kind of negates having fine wires. Most of my solder joints I use a good wide blade iron ensure the wires get nice and hot the use just enough solder to penetrate through the wires. They almost look like they have insufficient solder. I usually use 2 lengths of heat shrink, one either side, usually one that will just slide over the joint and the other to cover the lot. I still prefer the glue based ones. As a general reference, most matt coloured heatshrinks will easily absorb moisture.

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