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  1. #211

    Re: New bag and size limits as of today

    A young bloke I know about to finish school. Would like to go to uni to study environmental science. Fairdinkum.

  2. #212

    Re: New bag and size limits as of today

    Quote Originally Posted by billfisher View Post
    Where did I say - 'since the last review'? I mean over a longer course of time - obviously. And this make the weather less of a limit than it used to be.

    And according to the discussion paper I saw, the aim of the new restrictions is to build snapper stocks up to 60% of virgin spawning biomass in five years. So it seems like a case of setting the bar higher.

    PS: so are you saying that the restrictions should have been tighter earlier? Or what are you saying? Also is there really any 'right or wrong' as to how much biomass is left in the sea? It's largely a matter of opinion.
    well obviously! If the management set in place in 2013 saw a decline in the so called biomass today then the management was wrong back then. Whatís to say itís right now?

    most of the people I know that fish, rarely if ever are in the ocean targeting Snapper.
    Democracy: Simply a system that allows the 51% to steal from the other 49%.

  3. #213

    Re: New bag and size limits as of today

    Quote Originally Posted by Lovey80 View Post
    well obviously! If the management set in place in 2013 saw a decline in the so called biomass today then the management was wrong back then. Whatís to say itís right now?

    most of the people I know that fish, rarely if ever are in the ocean targeting Snapper.

    Yes you keep saying 'it was wrong back then', so 'could be wrong now'. This smacks of black and white thinking.

    Sooner or later more restrictions must have a positive effect. And you have bypassed my point that they seem to be setting the bar higher now.

  4. #214

    Re: New bag and size limits as of today

    There are so many variables when considering input data to bring about a desired outcome.

    A desired outcome and an acceptable outcome are two different things, as is a perceived outcome. Science, Public and Political.

    What happens in 2013 is more than likely different in 2019 and even for 2020.

    As far as I know the " original bio-mass " is a stable quantity.

    Changes are catch rates ( to be determined by best available information )

    Weather, cycles and drought and flood all produce different outcomes.

    Loss of habitat.

    Human population increases. ( recreational fishers )

    Demand for commercially supplied product.

    Let's also not forget that to achieve a desired outcome you need a couple of things.

    The Willingness of the people that have the power to do it and the funding required.

    It is fair to say, most decisions are made reactive to the situation. To be proactive takes broad shoulders, thick skin and a huge set of kahunas. None of which any political party has.

    I would like to know what each FQ scientist and researcher would do, if THEY had the power to implement regulations.

    My wish list is simple.. roll out artificial reefs in huge numbers and undertake wild stocking...... both of which require willingness and funding..........

    all IMO, of course.

    LP
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  5. #215

    Re: New bag and size limits as of today

    Not too sure an artificial reef increases fish stocks, there's plenty of reef/structure around (but they sure won't hurt) the only way to increase fish numbers is to take less, or add more (restocking) I am not sure how well stocked fish fare in the wild, I guess they should be no different to a "natural" fish? so that leaves take less, and "we" want no part of that. Would anyone pay for a rec license if funds raised went towards restocking (say) Snapper, better facilities and so on? or would everyone be so paranoid again that they wouldn't trust the authorities?

  6. #216

    Re: New bag and size limits as of today

    Biomass estimates compared to last time I think were fairly stable. What hasn't happened is an increase which is the desired outcome to achieve sustainability. The aim is to return to a model that indicates 40% of virgin biomass plus. It can be done easily with a total ban of a few years - Matt showed me the estimates. But due to the scientists only being a part of the process - not the ones that ultimately decide what measures will be put in place as far as management is concerned. The science team are asked to generate models using the various inputs for a host of management options - thus the fact there were 72 different ones. The people upstairs then decide which option they will run with taking into account political input from the various stakeholders representatives and fiscal considerations. That's the process as I understand it now anyway. Ultimately at times the political pressure is such that the necessary management restrictions for growth simply aren't implemented.

    One of the main concerns at the moment is lack of recruitment in Moreton Bay - an important breeding ground. If you look at the graph in the assessment it has consistently dropped since 2012. This year it dropped to an average of one fish per hectare for the sampling program from what I recall of our conversation. Regardless of the reasons, it's a troubling trend. If the remaining fish aren't breeding enough and they keep getting depleted, the situation can only get worse.

  7. #217

    Re: New bag and size limits as of today

    Thatís in Moreton bay. And thatís a serious concern. But what about on the wider reefs? What about in the deeper areas of 80m plus? Some of the ground I fish you can go hours without even seeing another boat on a glass out Saturday.

    Some of the ground east of Barwon Banks and northern hards has huge shows of fish and a lot of them are in the larger size brackets. Iíve actually said it out loud with mates on board ďThank god for bag limitsĒ because you could fill the back of your boat. Even the shallower areas off Caloundra still produce really good Snapper and I think those areas produce better numbers and larger fish than 10 years ago. Still fishing the same marks with the same basic gear we used back then also.
    Democracy: Simply a system that allows the 51% to steal from the other 49%.

  8. #218

    Re: New bag and size limits as of today

    Anyone here fish Moreton Bay in the early seventies?

  9. #219

    Re: New bag and size limits as of today

    Quote Originally Posted by banshee View Post
    Anyone here fish Moreton Bay in the early seventies?
    Not myself. I started chasing snapper regularly from the late 80's in the bay and offshore from the early 90's. No questions asked - they were a lot easier to catch with a far less sophisticated set up back then. I still on occasion have a crack at some of the reef systems we used to fish - some in particular I wouldn't have taken a legal fish off in years and when sounded over simply don't hold anywhere near the amount of life they once did - with a far better quality sounder than I had back then too.

  10. #220

    Re: New bag and size limits as of today

    Quote Originally Posted by Lovey80 View Post
    Thatís in Moreton bay. And thatís a serious concern. But what about on the wider reefs? What about in the deeper areas of 80m plus? Some of the ground I fish you can go hours without even seeing another boat on a glass out Saturday.

    Some of the ground east of Barwon Banks and northern hards has huge shows of fish and a lot of them are in the larger size brackets. Iíve actually said it out loud with mates on board ďThank god for bag limitsĒ because you could fill the back of your boat. Even the shallower areas off Caloundra still produce really good Snapper and I think those areas produce better numbers and larger fish than 10 years ago. Still fishing the same marks with the same basic gear we used back then also.
    Have a think about your statement - if you aren't seeing boats for hours on a glass out day, you are well and truly out of the way of the general population. Years ago, not too many offshore fisho's struggled to consistently catch a feed of snapper fishing the closer in areas in the heavier populated regions. Where have those fish gone? You may not have had to change your habits but literally thousands of others have. We aren't simply talking about your local hotspot - the issue is across the entire historical geographical distribution of snapper in Queensland. Maybe, just maybe, the fish on your you-beaut marks are the last unaffected strong hold of the species and will be responsible for repopulating our coastlines - unless of course they implement localised regs and allow them to be smashed as well. Sometimes there's a bigger picture.

  11. #221

    Re: New bag and size limits as of today

    Thatís my point though. The vast majority of the phone polls and ramp survey data is going to be taken from Recs that smash places like Moreton bay and the Gold Coast. That gets extrapolated out to show similar results for the whole distribution of QLD and wallah the whole state looks like it is heavily over fished.

    I think localised regs are part of the solution. And certainly in breeding areas like Moreton bay where barotrauma isnít an issue for Snapper thereís no doubt in my mind a 40 or 45cm MLS should be introduced. Iím guessing though that they put that into the too hard to police basket.
    Democracy: Simply a system that allows the 51% to steal from the other 49%.

  12. #222

    Re: New bag and size limits as of today

    What do you think would happen if they lock up other areas but increased the bag limit in yours......hope you like crowds. Might see a few more boats on those glass out days.

  13. #223

    Re: New bag and size limits as of today

    Quote Originally Posted by Lovey80 View Post
    Thatís in Moreton bay. And thatís a serious concern. But what about on the wider reefs? What about in the deeper areas of 80m plus? Some of the ground I fish you can go hours without even seeing another boat on a glass out Saturday.

    Some of the ground east of Barwon Banks and northern hards has huge shows of fish and a lot of them are in the larger size brackets. Iíve actually said it out loud with mates on board ďThank god for bag limitsĒ because you could fill the back of your boat. Even the shallower areas off Caloundra still produce really good Snapper and I think those areas produce better numbers and larger fish than 10 years ago. Still fishing the same marks with the same basic gear we used back then also.
    I do agree with what you say, but, eventually these offshore reef systems loaded with fish get hit too, it's just how we work, no fish in close, go wider, then wider again, exactly that happened here with the "deep droppers" only a few years ago, Blue Eye and other deep water fish were pro catch only, now it's common to see a dozen trailer boats on the deep grounds, with electric reels, the stocks of Gemfish took a hiding, then boat limits were introduced, and stocks seem to be going OK, you can get plenty of big ones, Blue Eye and Hapuka are not so easy to find, but they are there.

  14. #224

    Re: New bag and size limits as of today

    Interesting.......Not saying it directly links with this thread but worth a read.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-19/quarter-of-commercial-fishing-lines-end-up-as-ocean-rubbish/11524688

  15. #225

    Re: New bag and size limits as of today

    Quote Originally Posted by Noelm View Post
    Not too sure an artificial reef increases fish stocks, there's plenty of reef/structure around (but they sure won't hurt) the only way to increase fish numbers is to take less, or add more (restocking) I am not sure how well stocked fish fare in the wild, I guess they should be no different to a "natural" fish? so that leaves take less, and "we" want no part of that. Would anyone pay for a rec license if funds raised went towards restocking (say) Snapper, better facilities and so on? or would everyone be so paranoid again that they wouldn't trust the authorities?
    The only gripe I have with our (nsw) set up is that we stocked a shit load of Mulloway,paid for out of the rec trust fund,into the Richmond so they could swim into a commercial net.

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