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  1. #136

    Re: New bag and size limits as of today

    Quote Originally Posted by chris69 View Post
    Any trout or line boat would not stay at a reef for more than a day or 2 as the reef shuts down with the boat activity so its not that all the fish are caught there just smarter than the guys trying to catch them.
    depends on how big the reef is or how many boats are around - doesn't it ? …….. my last trip to NQ earlier this year - we saw a dory boat on day 1 & it left on day 5 (headed further north)

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  2. #137

    Re: New bag and size limits as of today

    Quote Originally Posted by billfisher View Post
    Well the latest stock assessment says otherwise:

    http://era.daf.qld.gov.au/id/eprint/...nal%202019.pdf

    "Over the last five years, 2013-14 to 2017-18, the Queensland total harvest averaged 983 tonnes (t) per year. Sectoral shares were 82% commercial (806 t) and 18% recreational (177 t). Note that commercial harvest is based on logbook reporting, whereas recreational harvest is estimated and subject to greater uncertainty.
    The previous stock assessment estimated that in July 2012 the stock was at 60% of unfished biomass (i.e. before fishing began) over the areas commonly fished by commercial fishers. This stock assessment updates the existing model to cover the full extent of the GBR in Queensland waters and includes harvest information from the recreational sector.
    This stock assessment used a spatial age-structured model with a yearly time step based on financial years. The model considered twelve spatial sub-populations (“strata”) of fish based primarily on differences in coral reef habitat.
    The model incorporated data spanning the period from 1961-62 to 2017-18 (including commercial harvest (1988-89 to 2017-18); historical commercial (1961-62 to 1981-82); recreational harvest (199697 to 2013-14); age monitoring (1994-95 to 2004-05); and underwater visual surveys (1982-83 to 2017-18)).
    Model analyses suggested that biomass declined between 1951-52 and 2003-04 to 55% unfished biomass. In 2017-18, the stock level was estimated to be 68% unfished total biomass.
    Maximum sustainable yield (MSY) was estimated at 1740 t per year, and the yield consistent with a biomass ratio of 68% (a proxy for maximum economic yield in this fishery) was estimated at 1398 t (all sectors, excluding Torres Strait)".
    What was the tonnage during the early to mid 2000s ? double - …. more than double ?

    I haven't looked into the numbers - but why is the take so much lower today than it was a dozen or so years ago ? …… is it effort or declining stock ?

    Just asking

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  3. #138

    Re: New bag and size limits as of today

    Quote Originally Posted by NAGG View Post
    What was the tonnage during the early to mid 2000s ? double - …. more than double ?

    I haven't looked into the numbers - but why is the take so much lower today than it was a dozen or so years ago ? …… is it effort or declining stock ?

    Just asking

    Chris
    Look at the second last paragraph - the stock has gone up from in
    2003-04 at 55% unfished biomass compared to in 2017-18 to be 68% unfished total biomass.

  4. #139

    Re: New bag and size limits as of today

    Quote Originally Posted by billfisher View Post
    Look at the second last paragraph - the stock has gone up from in
    2003-04 at 55% unfished biomass compared to in 2017-18 to be 68% unfished total biomass.
    That's not what I'm asking you …… I want to compare tonnage today Vs 15, 16 , 17 years ago


    I can tell you it was near to or above 2000 tonne

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  5. #140

    Re: New bag and size limits as of today

    Trout numbers are a bit unique as the bulk of the commercial take are taken from shallow waters due to the live export trade so a huge part of the biomass do not get targeted by the commercial sector.
    As far as a commercial species goes, they are probably more protected than all other species caught due to their high value as a live fish

  6. #141

    Re: New bag and size limits as of today

    Quote Originally Posted by NAGG View Post
    That's not what I'm asking you …… I want to compare tonnage today Vs 15, 16 , 17 years ago


    I can tell you it was near to or above 2000 tonne

    Chris
    Well, it was what you were asking me, ie

    "
    I haven't looked into the numbers - but why is the take so much lower today than it was a dozen or so years ago ? …… is it effort or declining stock ?"


  7. #142

    Re: New bag and size limits as of today

    Quote Originally Posted by NAGG View Post
    depends on how big the reef is or how many boats are around - doesn't it ? …….. my last trip to NQ earlier this year - we saw a dory boat on day 1 & it left on day 5 (headed further north)

    Chris

    There might have been mackerel dories were you were wide of lucinda and not all of a reef is 100% fishable regardless of how big or small it is you won't pull any trout or lipper out of stag coral you look for plate coral and the best part of the reef is the weather face there's only so much of that you can work, even the charter boats don't just go to one reef and stay there because the reef goes shy ,about the only place a charter boat or line boat would stay for awhile is if they went to Fredrics or Kato or sumarez because there so far out and they big ones and not fished as much as the inner reefs or the swains.

  8. #143

    Re: New bag and size limits as of today

    I’m not sure why we’ve been so fixated on CRFF in a RRFF stock assessment thread. But for those that are interested, my diving on coral reefs in other parts of the world (Red Sea, Thailand etc), most of which are protected. When ever I see a large coral trout it is noticeable how much distance the smaller trout give it a wide birth. You’ll have one big fish dominate a large area but in places where there are no large fish you’ll see large numbers of smaller fish. It’s like they all get along until they hit a certain size then they become really territorial and either fight or eat each other (haven’t seen that yet).

    While the live trout trade trade would only be targeting fish down to probably 30 or so meters because of barotrauma issues, diving down to 40m and using artificial light to look deeper on the reef edge there are plenty of trout including some very big ones down deeper than 70-80m
    Democracy: Simply a system that allows the 51% to steal from the other 49%.

  9. #144

    Re: New bag and size limits as of today

    Quote Originally Posted by NAGG View Post
    That's not what I'm asking you …… I want to compare tonnage today Vs 15, 16 , 17 years ago


    I can tell you it was near to or above 2000 tonne

    Chris
    In any case it was briefly around 2000T for 3 years around the year 2000 - see the graph on page 18.

  10. #145

    Re: New bag and size limits as of today

    Quote Originally Posted by Noelm View Post
    Can't say that a bathyscope would be that expensive, or difficult to use, if you think that's how they smash the fish, just buy one, it's just another "tool" no different to your GPS, sounder, $700 reel or fancy boat, if you can't beat them, join them! Let's be perfectly clear here, I am not defending or hanging shit on anyone, I am just kind of pointing out that shit fights get nothing done, and we can't have it all our own way all the time.

    I have a bathoscope. Cheap as chips.

    Doesnt help me catch fish, quite the opposite, cos I just end up looking at all the cool shit on the bottom, and get depressed at all the fish that I though were not there, but turns out I’m just not good enough to catch...

  11. #146

    Re: New bag and size limits as of today

    Whats the old saying ????, 100% of the Fish are caught by 1% of the Fishermen . Which if right it means Boatramp etc figures regarding Rec Fishos are crap..

  12. #147

    Re: New bag and size limits as of today

    Quote Originally Posted by Volvo View Post
    Whats the old saying ????, 100% of the Fish are caught by 1% of the Fishermen . Which if right it means Boatramp etc figures regarding Rec Fishos are crap..
    I think the saying is that 10% of fishermen catch 90% of the fish. In any case why wouldn't that be captured by the surveys?

  13. #148

    Re: New bag and size limits as of today

    Quote Originally Posted by billfisher View Post
    I think the saying is that 10% of fishermen catch 90% of the fish. In any case why wouldn't that be captured by the surveys?
    Cause 10% of fisho's will tell the creel survey administrators too "F@#K right off buddy" ...... at least I do cause I know there not there to help me.

    BigE

  14. #149

    Re: New bag and size limits as of today

    Quote Originally Posted by BigE View Post
    Cause 10% of fisho's will tell the creel survey administrators too "F@#K right off buddy" ...... at least I do cause I know there not there to help me.

    BigE
    While I don't disagree with you, how do you know they are not there to help? that's the biggest talking point here, unknown rec take, there is no other/better method that I can think of.

  15. #150

    Re: New bag and size limits as of today

    Noelm,

    While you are correct in that some are genuinely trying to help in getting these numbers, and maybe for the right reasons, the trust in any govt agency, especially if politically connected or backed is very low in society. Unfortunately that distrust is often very valid and transverses(?) across to all areas of our lives, including fishing studies. I'm on the side of caution and maybe, if transparency on why, where and how these figures are to be used and by whom, I could be possibly convinced it is a good thing. For me the jury is still out.
    Cheers
    Muz

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