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Thread: Poachers

  1. #106

    Re: Poachers

    Quote Originally Posted by billfisher View Post
    Caps lock is shouting on the internet. And I have no idea what you mean by 'running down other people's opinions using degrading remarks'. I have used reason and evidence based arguments. My so called critics here have studiously ignored them. If you claim a science background then why not demonstrate why the 'studies and stats can often crumble'. PS: I didn't see any evidence that the obsevations offered here are 'long term' or are credible.
    When I hear comments from people that have held professional fishing licenses... regarding the down turn in the catch of certain species... spanner crabs being one good example, mullet another, and NO I cannot provide stats, however the introduction of a closed season for the capture of spanner crabs says a lot.
    So, I can accept their views as spot on, why on earth would they make this stuff up???? Again BF. Keep an open mind, perhaps you could go back and read some of your responses. Should I paraphrase or start quoting...Nah.. either way I think nothing will change, no win situation. Will not swim up your burly trail any further.
    Cheers Roz
    GO THE CRUISER UTES!

    ....OH WHAT A FEELING!

  2. #107

    Re: Poachers

    Quote Originally Posted by roz View Post
    When I hear comments from people that have held professional fishing licenses... regarding the down turn in the catch of certain species... spanner crabs being one good example, mullet another, and NO I cannot provide stats, however the introduction of a closed season for the capture of spanner crabs says a lot.
    So, I can accept their views as spot on, why on earth would they make this stuff up???? Again BF. Keep an open mind, perhaps you could go back and read some of your responses. Should I paraphrase or start quoting...Nah.. either way I think nothing will change, no win situation. Will not swim up your burly trail any further.
    Cheers Roz
    Your the one with the closed mind - ie that marine parks are the greatest gift to civilisation. I don't know what you think another list of vague anecdotes actually proves. Eg one of your previous ones was:

    "That completely changed his mind, it also changed my opinion, so I've become an advocate for green zones, it's a win win situation. If you could've heard his story you would understand.
    It's also happened down in my location, Coffs Harbour, there are no fish zones around the continental islands in this area, it takes a long time but local fish stocks have risen big time".

    If you look at the 2018 snapper assessment they note snapper no's are on the rise in NSW due to fisheries management changes, ie the removal of effort. It didn't occur to you that could be the reason did it?

  3. #108

    Re: Poachers

    I can't believe I just read 8 pages of a pissing contest.

    he said, she said, he saw, she saw, they did, they did not, they wrote, they did not write.............well, that's 12 minutes I won't get back.

    All put up their opinions and not one opinion has been changed by others arguments.

    With all due respect to all contributors.....seems like a good time to " move along, nothing to see here ". ?

    LP
    Kingfisher Painting Solutions:- Domestic and Commercial.

    For further information, contact details, quotes or advice - Click Here





  4. #109

    Re: Poachers

    I guess we can back and forth all we want on the subject but fact is it is against the law to fish in a green zone.There were no innocent mistakes here,these blokes are commercial fishermen it is their business to know exactly where they are,they simply put themselves above the law for financial gain.The sooner grubs like this are rubbed out of the 'industry' the better.

  5. #110

    Re: Poachers

    👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

  6. #111

    Re: Poachers

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky_Phill View Post
    I can't believe I just read 8 pages of a pissing contest.

    he said, she said, he saw, she saw, they did, they did not, they wrote, they did not write.............well, that's 12 minutes I won't get back.

    All put up their opinions and not one opinion has been changed by others arguments.

    With all due respect to all contributors.....seems like a good time to " move along, nothing to see here ". ?

    LP
    A pissing contest is usually about people trying to say they have the biggest and best credentials. I have relied on references as much as possible so as to not make it all about me and to give evidence rather than my opinion. Eg here is what the NSW stock assessment says about snapper and how a removal of effort as the result of fisheries management has seen an increase in snapper no's:


    "Commercial and recreational catch and fishing effort are at historically low levels in New South Wales. Commercial landings during 2016–17 were approximately 170 t, lower than the 10 year average of 245 t, and substantially lower than during the early 1980s when commercial landings approached 1 000 t per year. The number of days reported fish trapping when Snapper were landed has declined from 4 790 in 2009–10 to 3 226 in 2016–17, largely due to management driven reforms to the sector. The recreational harvest of Snapper in New South Wales declined from approximately 250 000 fish in 2000–01 to approximately 185 000 fish during 2013–14, and effort also declined markedly during this period [West et al. 2015). Trends in the size and age compositions in landed catches suggest population rebuilding from around 2008 onwards, with continual increases in the average sizes and ages of fish in commercial landings [Wortmann et al. 2018]. This indicates that the stock in New South Wales waters is increasing under existing levels of harvest. This level of fishing mortality is unlikely to cause the biological stock to become recruitment impaired.
    On the basis of the evidence provided above, Snapper in New South Wales is classified as a sustainable stock".

  7. #112

    Re: Poachers

    Quote Originally Posted by billfisher View Post
    A pissing contest is usually about people trying to say they have the biggest and best credentials. I have relied on references as much as possible so as to not make it all about me and to give evidence rather than my opinion. Eg here is what the NSW stock assessment says about snapper and how a removal of effort as the result of fisheries management has seen an increase in snapper no's:


    "Commercial and recreational catch and fishing effort are at historically low levels in New South Wales. Commercial landings during 2016–17 were approximately 170 t, lower than the 10 year average of 245 t, and substantially lower than during the early 1980s when commercial landings approached 1 000 t per year. The number of days reported fish trapping when Snapper were landed has declined from 4 790 in 2009–10 to 3 226 in 2016–17, largely due to management driven reforms to the sector. The recreational harvest of Snapper in New South Wales declined from approximately 250 000 fish in 2000–01 to approximately 185 000 fish during 2013–14, and effort also declined markedly during this period [West et al. 2015). Trends in the size and age compositions in landed catches suggest population rebuilding from around 2008 onwards, with continual increases in the average sizes and ages of fish in commercial landings [Wortmann et al. 2018]. This indicates that the stock in New South Wales waters is increasing under existing levels of harvest. This level of fishing mortality is unlikely to cause the biological stock to become recruitment impaired.
    On the basis of the evidence provided above, Snapper in New South Wales is classified as a sustainable stock".
    WTF has this to do with illegal fishing in Nth Queensland by commercial operators.......

  8. #113

  9. #114

    Re: Poachers

    Quote Originally Posted by banshee View Post
    WTF has this to do with illegal fishing in Nth Queensland by commercial operators.......
    Well if that's all you are worried about it's actually on the way down.

  10. #115

    Re: Poachers

    Quote Originally Posted by billfisher View Post
    A pissing contest is usually about people trying to say they have the biggest and best credentials. I have relied on references as much as possible so as to not make it all about me and to give evidence rather than my opinion. Eg here is what the NSW stock assessment says about snapper and how a removal of effort as the result of fisheries management has seen an increase in snapper no's:


    "Commercial and recreational catch and fishing effort are at historically low levels in New South Wales. Commercial landings during 2016–17 were approximately 170 t, lower than the 10 year average of 245 t, and substantially lower than during the early 1980s when commercial landings approached 1 000 t per year. The number of days reported fish trapping when Snapper were landed has declined from 4 790 in 2009–10 to 3 226 in 2016–17, largely due to management driven reforms to the sector. The recreational harvest of Snapper in New South Wales declined from approximately 250 000 fish in 2000–01 to approximately 185 000 fish during 2013–14, and effort also declined markedly during this period [West et al. 2015). Trends in the size and age compositions in landed catches suggest population rebuilding from around 2008 onwards, with continual increases in the average sizes and ages of fish in commercial landings [Wortmann et al. 2018]. This indicates that the stock in New South Wales waters is increasing under existing levels of harvest. This level of fishing mortality is unlikely to cause the biological stock to become recruitment impaired.
    On the basis of the evidence provided above, Snapper in New South Wales is classified as a sustainable stock".
    You should have also included the previous 2 paragraphs, paints a different picture about Qld snapper fishing as it appears the data is mostly based on NSW fisheries. 10% to 45% of unfished levels is apparently sustainable, with such a huge variation in estimates it is no wonder very few people have any faith in these reports.

    Oops, I forgot I wasn't taking the bait on this one.


    "The most recent integrated stock assessment for East Coast Snapper [Wortmann et al. 2018] that included data from 1880 to 2016 from the entire biological stock (Queensland and New South Wales) produced a range of relative biomass estimates that varied between 10 per cent and 45 per cent of unfished levels. However, the majority of harvest from the East Coast stock occurs in New South Wales waters, with more than 80 per cent of the commercial harvest being taken in New South Wales since the 1980s [Wortmann et al. 2018], mostly in the trap fishery. The New South Wales recreational harvest is also larger than the recreational harvest in Queensland, although there is no reliable time series of recreational catch in New South Wales (only 2 estimates in 2000–01 and 2013–14 respectively [West et al. 2015]).

    This high relative harvest in New South Wales, in combination with the limited movement of East Coast Snapper [Harasti et al. 2015, Sumpton et al. 2003], indicates that the indices of relative abundance derived from the New South Wales trap fishery are more likely to represent the New South Wales stock than indices from the relatively small and less well understood line fishing sectors. Based on the most suitable model scenarios for New South Wales, the most recent assessment [Wortmann et al. 2018] estimated that biomass in 2016 was between 20 and 45 per cent of the virgin level. The stock in New South Wales is not considered to be recruitment impaired."

  11. #116

    Re: Poachers

    Quote Originally Posted by Dignity View Post
    You should have also included the previous 2 paragraphs, paints a different picture about Qld snapper fishing as it appears the data is mostly based on NSW fisheries. 10% to 45% of unfished levels is apparently sustainable, with such a huge variation in estimates it is no wonder very few people have any faith in these reports.

    Oops, I forgot I wasn't taking the bait on this one.


    "The most recent integrated stock assessment for East Coast Snapper [Wortmann et al. 2018] that included data from 1880 to 2016 from the entire biological stock (Queensland and New South Wales) produced a range of relative biomass estimates that varied between 10 per cent and 45 per cent of unfished levels. However, the majority of harvest from the East Coast stock occurs in New South Wales waters, with more than 80 per cent of the commercial harvest being taken in New South Wales since the 1980s [Wortmann et al. 2018], mostly in the trap fishery. The New South Wales recreational harvest is also larger than the recreational harvest in Queensland, although there is no reliable time series of recreational catch in New South Wales (only 2 estimates in 2000–01 and 2013–14 respectively [West et al. 2015]).

    This high relative harvest in New South Wales, in combination with the limited movement of East Coast Snapper [Harasti et al. 2015, Sumpton et al. 2003], indicates that the indices of relative abundance derived from the New South Wales trap fishery are more likely to represent the New South Wales stock than indices from the relatively small and less well understood line fishing sectors. Based on the most suitable model scenarios for New South Wales, the most recent assessment [Wortmann et al. 2018] estimated that biomass in 2016 was between 20 and 45 per cent of the virgin level. The stock in New South Wales is not considered to be recruitment impaired."
    Why should I mention Qld snapper? You seem to have missed that I was responding to Roz's post about Coffs Harbour. Ie him attributing an increase in fish no's to the marine park in the area. If your point about the stock estimates then this ignores the fact that catches show an improvement in size and age structure in NSW, which strongly suggests stocks are improving under the current regulations.

  12. #117

    Re: Poachers

    Quote Originally Posted by billfisher View Post
    Why should I mention Qld snapper? You seem to have missed that I was responding to Roz's post about Coffs Harbour. Ie him attributing an increase in fish no's to the marine park in the area. If your point about the stock estimates then this ignores the fact that catches show an improvement in size and age structure in NSW, which strongly suggests stocks are improving under the current regulations.
    Because the paragraph you posted is specifically about snapper stocks, and even then it is a statisticians delight, I could post the entire report.....

  13. #118

    Re: Poachers

    Quote Originally Posted by Dignity View Post
    Because the paragraph you posted is specifically about snapper stocks, and even then it is a statisticians delight, I could post the entire report.....
    I can put up the link if you like. But all that is relevant is that snapper stocks are improving in NSW and this has more to do with fisheries management (removal of effort) than marine parks.

  14. #119

    Re: Poachers

    I think a certain "fisher" needs to save his trolling for when those fish with bills are in his local waters rather than on this and other posts in this forum.

    Just saying.....

    cheers
    Jeff.

  15. #120

    Re: Poachers

    Quote Originally Posted by Short Fuse View Post
    I think a certain "fisher" needs to save his trolling for when those fish with bills are in his local waters rather than on this and other posts in this forum.

    Just saying.....

    cheers
    Jeff.
    It was Roz that mentioned NSW waters - ie Coffs Harbour.

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