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Thread: Poachers

  1. #76

    Re: Poachers

    OK - So according to Billfisher & his "empirical evidence" that spill over is "unlikely" unless it isn't a well managed fishery (with lots of assumptions)

    What is a well managed fishery ? - closed seasons , even lower bag / possession / boat limits , greater restriction on tackle , more slot / size limits - reduced commercial quotas …….. all of which play their part.

    I guess if you make it less worth while to go for a fish - then less effort would see fish numbers stabilise & increase .

    There are already a lot of these "fishery management " tools in place ……. & yet "anecdotally" fishing is getting harder , fish quality is diminishing & there is a need to travel further & wider .

    But somehow locking down areas is "unlikely" to help improve things

    Chris

    PS - This makes for a pretty reasonable read - on the current science / data collection

    https://news.mongabay.com/2018/01/the-ups-and-downs-of-marine-protected-areas-examining-the-evidence/
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  2. #77

    Re: Poachers

    Quote Originally Posted by NAGG View Post
    OK - So according to Billfisher & his "empirical evidence" that spill over is "unlikely" unless it isn't a well managed fishery (with lots of assumptions)

    What is a well managed fishery ? - closed seasons , even lower bag / possession / boat limits , greater restriction on tackle , more slot / size limits - reduced commercial quotas …….. all of which play their part.

    I guess if you make it less worth while to go for a fish - then less effort would see fish numbers stabilise & increase .

    There are already a lot of these "fishery management " tools in place ……. & yet "anecdotally" fishing is getting harder , fish quality is diminishing & there is a need to travel further & wider .

    But somehow locking down areas is "unlikely" to help improve things

    Chris

    PS - This makes for a pretty reasonable read - on the current science / data collection
    What a sweeping generalisation - you can't possbly say all fishing is getting harder, fish quality is diminishing when there are plenty of cases where fish stocks are improving or at least holding their own eg snapper in Victoria, kingfish in NSW. And in the case of the GBR (the topic of this thread) according to this research traditional methods wouldn't have to be tightened very much at all to out perform extensive marine parks. You seem to have set up some sort of flase dichotomy of even increasing fisheries restrictions verses marine parks.:

    https://theconversation.com/how-ecos...them-too-29977

  3. #78

    Re: Poachers

    Quote Originally Posted by billfisher View Post
    What a sweeping generalisation - you can't possbly say all fishing is getting harder, fish quality is diminishing when there are plenty of cases where fish stocks are improving or at least holding their own eg snapper in Victoria, kingfish in NSW. And in the case of the GBR (the topic of this thread) according to this research traditional methods wouldn't have to be tighetened very much at all to out perform extensive marine parks. You seem to have set up some sort of flase dichotomy of even increasing fisheries restrictions verses marine parks.:

    https://theconversation.com/how-ecos...them-too-29977
    Sweeping generalisation ?

    It's well recognised that there is still a problem with the NSW kingfish population …….. particularly size . NSW also has a problem with Mulloway … which has seen recent changes to size limits . SA have now got an issue with snapper . The Bluefin Tuna industry was shut down for years & stricter restrictions are in place today . The Orange Roughy fishery was shut down . Victoria's snapper now have greater restrictions , The NTs barramundi fishery is now highly regulated . …… I'm sure if I thought about it a bit more & did some research …… there would be many more examples to quote.

    Call it anecdotal if you like - but try convincing someone that fished in the 1960's that todays fishing is comparable in size & numbers . If we didn't have todays technology available ( boat's , electronics etc) many people would struggle to catch a feed.

    I'm not proposing anything - just suggesting that the current "fishery management tools" probably haven't had the desired effect either

    Chris
    Give a man a fish & he will eat for a day !
    Teach him how to fish
    & he will sit in a boat - & drink beer all day!
    TEAM MOJIKO

  4. #79

    Re: Poachers

    Quote Originally Posted by NAGG View Post
    Sweeping generalisation ?

    It's well recognised that there is still a problem with the NSW kingfish population …….. particularly size . NSW also has a problem with Mulloway … which has seen recent changes to size limits . SA have now got an issue with snapper . The Bluefin Tuna industry was shut down for years & stricter restrictions are in place today . The Orange Roughy fishery was shut down . Victoria's snapper now have greater restrictions , The NTs barramundi fishery is now highly regulated . …… I'm sure if I thought about it a bit more & did some research …… there would be many more examples to quote.

    Call it anecdotal if you like - but try convincing someone that fished in the 1960's that todays fishing is comparable in size & numbers . If we didn't have todays technology available ( boat's , electronics etc) many people would struggle to catch a feed.

    I'm not proposing anything - just suggesting that the current "fishery management tools" probably haven't had the desired effect either

    Chris
    There is nothing neccessarily wrong with 'highly restricted' if it means you have a good chance of achieving your bag limit/ experiencing good fishing. Eg with barra in the NT people come from all over the world because the fishing is so good. On the Mary River system there is a bag limits of only 2 per day. When I fished Shady Camp billabong I caught 5 between 7 and 10kg and kept the 2 biggest ones which fed me for several months - what's not to like about that? In SA the issue is in the Gulf's, not the stock there share with Vic. There hasn't been a good spawing event since the early 2000's, so there could be an environmental factor.

    Orange Roughy have recovered enough to allow limited commercial fishing. Their slow growth and habit of schooling in mid water made the vulnerable to overfishing. The SBT hasn't been shut down and they are internationaly managed. With Australia's help they are quite resurgent and their status has been upgraded. Game fishermen in southern states are targeting them with sucess. The eastern kingfish population is 'uncertain' but that's due to lack of enough information. Anecdotally from rec catches they seem to be improving.

    Your examples don't seem to back your claim that fisheries management is somehow failing.

  5. #80

    Re: Poachers

    Here’s is a thought that may blow your mind. Take a breath and step back and consider the following: what if you’re wrong and the others are right- what are the implications? I’ll do the same.

  6. #81

    Re: Poachers

    Quote Originally Posted by baitable View Post
    Here’s is a thought that may blow your mind. Take a breath and step back and consider the following: what if you’re wrong and the others are right- what are the implications? I’ll do the same.
    Didn't you try that before - based as it was though on a series of false premises and omissions?

  7. #82

    Re: Poachers

    Well that shows you’re incapable of extrapolating an idea, to you everything is absolute. To put this into context, a three year old is the same. There was a wonderful storey about a sandwich I’ll have to find for you to read.

  8. #83

    Re: Poachers

    Quote Originally Posted by baitable View Post
    Well that shows you’re incapable of extrapolating an idea, to you everything is absolute. To put this into context, a three year old is the same. There was a wonderful storey about a sandwich I’ll have to find for you to read.
    Instead why don't you try addressing the objections I raised - I never got a reply.

  9. #84

    Re: Poachers

    So @billfisher how about you answer some questions for us? I'll go first.

    Do you use a ladder to get on your horse or do you have a stablehand to give you a boost?

    Did you have to pay extra to get a high clearance stable to fit your horse?

    Do high horses cost more to feed as they have extra long legs to fill?

    Enquiring minds and all that.

    Matt

  10. #85

    Re: Poachers

    Quote Originally Posted by shortthenlong View Post
    So @billfisher how about you answer some questions for us? I'll go first.

    Do you use a ladder to get on your horse or do you have a stablehand to give you a boost?

    Did you have to pay extra to get a high clearance stable to fit your horse?

    Do high horses cost more to feed as they have extra long legs to fill?

    Enquiring minds and all that.

    Matt
    Your not very intelligent are you? You can't win on reason and evidence so you come up with this.

  11. #86

    Re: Poachers

    Quote Originally Posted by billfisher View Post
    Your not very intelligent are you? You can't win on reason and evidence so you come up with this.
    Your arrogance and totally closed mindedness has ruined this thread so might as well make it a joke

    Matt

  12. #87

    Re: Poachers

    Orange Roughy have recovered enough to allow limited commercial fishing. Their slow growth and habit of schooling in mid water made the vulnerable to overfishing.


    Theres a good reason why they school in mid water at around 3000ft I think and that's because they have come up from the depths to spawn other wise they live to deep to catch.

  13. #88

    Re: Poachers

    Quote Originally Posted by shortthenlong View Post
    Your arrogance and totally closed mindedness has ruined this thread so might as well make it a joke

    Matt
    Sorry if I ruined your torch and pitchfork party about people fishing in green zones.

  14. #89

    Re: Poachers

    Quote Originally Posted by billfisher View Post
    Sorry if I ruined your torch and pitchfork party about people fishing in green zones.
    Are you avoiding my questions now? Surely you wouldn't do that. That would be like a double standard.

    And #### anyone who fishes in a green zone.

    Matt

  15. #90

    Re: Poachers

    If you can’t grasp the basic concept of any lateral thought then why would I try take things any further? I would have better luck with arguing with a stone

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